China wants to be part of Kashmir dispute

Discussion in 'China' started by neo29, Oct 13, 2010.

  1. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    'The China-Pakistan strategic calculus is particularly dominant in this narrative. It is a marriage literally made in the Karakorams.'

    Why China worries India's [ Images ] diplomats, Nikhil Lakshman listens in:

    How to deal with an "more assertive, more muscular" China represents a huge challenge for Indian diplomats and the country, sources in India's ministry for external affairs ministry revealed on Wednesday morning.

    Speaking on the periphery of External Affairs Minister S M Krishna's [ Images ] interaction with senior editors, the sources noted with concern "China's role in Kashmir affairs."

    The sources, who spoke on background and did not want to be identified because it would probably upset Chinese sensitivities, were responding to a question posed by Indian Express Strategic Affairs Editor C Rajamohan.

    Dr Rajamohan felt that China had gone even further than Pakistan in defining the Kashmir issue.

    While Pakistan insists that Kashmir is disputed territory, he said recent Chinese positions have made it clear that Beijing [ Images ] believes Pakistan occupied Kashmir is Pakistan territory, while India's Kashmir state is the only part of the province that is disputed.

    China, like the United States, the MEA sources said, had long held the position that Kashmir was a dispute between India and Pakistan and China favoured the two South Asian neighbours talking to each to find a resolution to the problem.

    When China started issuing stapled visas to residents of Jammu and Kashmir [ Images ] a couple of years ago, alarm bells started chiming at South Block where the ministry of external affairs is headquartered.

    "We try to reason it out with the Chinese," one source said, "pointed out that a part of Kashmir is illegally occupied by Pakistan, but we noticed a shift in China's attitude and their continuing to issue stapled visas."

    What seems to be coming out of all this, another source added, is that China wants to assert that it is also a part of the Kashmir dispute.

    Thirty eight thousand kilometres of Indian territory in Ladakh – one of the three regions that comprise Jammu and Kashmir state -- was occupied by China after the 1962 war with India.

    "The China-Pakistan strategic calculus is particularly dominant in this narrative," the source added, "It is a marriage literally made in the Karakorams."

    Alluding to Selig Harrison's article in The New York Times in August which revealed that between 7,000 to 10,000 troops of China's People Liberation Army are stationed in the Gilgit-Baltistan area of Pakistan occupied Kashmir, the source felt that Pakistan had ceded responsibility for those areas to the Chinese.

    China is helping Pakistan build high-speed rail and road links in Gilgit-Baltistan that will enable Chinese merchandise to travel from Eastern China to the Gwadar, Pasni and Ormara ports – all built with Chinese help – within two days.

    All these developments, the source added, had profound implications for the long-standing boundary dispute between India and China. Protracted discussions in recent years have been unable to make significant progress, let alone resolve the complicated boundary question.

    However, the source cautioned the editors present not to draw any "doomsday conclusions" about the India-China relationship from the stapled visas for Kashmir residents or the recent denial of a Chinese visa to North Command Commander Lieutentant General B S Jaswal.

    "It is not as if the India-China relationship has a frost which we have not been able to permeate," the source noted, "and even though we have not yet built a convergence to find a settlement to the border issue, the border is tranquil and the occasional transgressions have not resulted in any military confrontation."

    The ministry of external affairs, the sources pointed out, closely monitors China's actions in South Asia, its interactions with India's neighbours, and indeed across the world.

    China's investments and interactions, one source added, are "high profile, but short term," contrasting India's "low profile, but long-term" role.

    This source felt that the internal political calculus in China may likely influence recent Chinese actions.

    The old Communist system is mutating, the source added, and there is insufficient clarity about the route the current political order will take, especially when President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao transfer their powers to the next generation in 2012.

    Apart from China's unquestioned economic strength, the source believed it is possible that the new Chinese assertiveness could also be linked to the People's Liberation Army's greater say in matters of statecraft.

    The PLA's influence had declined in the Deng Xiaoping era; Deng disapproved of the PLA's fingers in many pies, much like the Pakistan army [ Images ] operates, and had clipped its nails during his years in power.

    In recent years, China observers have noted the PLA's resurgence and though a military takeover is not on the cards, the generals clearly influence policy in the backrooms of Chinese governance.

    As its strategy to deal with the New China, India has moved to build strategic relationships with many countries who share its apprehensions about the Middle Kingdom – the US, of course; Russia [ Images ]; Japan [ Images ], and in recent years, Vietnam, South Korea and Indonesia, which Rediff.com columnist and NDTV Defence Editor Nitin Gokhale discussed in his most recent column.

    India has always chosen its Chief Guests for the Republic Day parade with an eye on its strategic goals, be it Russia's then president Vladmir Putin, Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah, French President Nicolas Sarkozy and South Korean President Lee Myung-bak this year.

    Unusually, India announced its Chief Guest for Republic Day 2011 early, in August itself: Indonesian President Susilo Banbang Yudhoyono. The choice highlights India's desire for a better relationship with Indonesia, a country that shares New Delhi's [ Images ] worries about an assertive China.

    "We have laid the groundwork for a better relationship with Indonesia," one source pointed out, "We have paid greater attention. Indonesia is a democratic country with a big population, and traditionally there has been a civilisational relationship with India."

    Indonesia, the source added, is increasingly important for India to make a difference in the region.

    "What we are seeing now is that the game playing has now begun," the source said, indicating China, "Many rounds will take place and the tensions will not be good for the region."

    "The engagement quotient has got to go up," the source added, highlighting the matured India-China relationship in the last 20 years, the $60 billion worth of trade between the Asian giants, and the increasing Indian corporate presence in Eastern and Southern China. "Not the confrontation quotient."

    rediff.com
     
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  3. sesha_maruthi27

    sesha_maruthi27 Senior Member Senior Member

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    The media is making a hype of this matter, but it is of a great concern. INDIA can do nothing but waiting for them to attack.
     
  4. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    Offcourse India should also have intrest in Vietnam, Taiwan, S korea and Japan . We should also be party to all those disputed regions. Its our attitude that's emboldening Chinese. Till now we haven't done anything to prove that we have Balls. whats stopping us from Just mentioning it to press that we are reviewing our policy on Tibet. This declaration itself is more than enough to send them a strong message .
     
  5. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    China is already a part of kashmir dispute.indian position on askai chin and Shaksam Valley is clear that its part of kashmir and it bein integral part of india china has to vacate both.
     
  6. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Since they want to be a part of Kashmir situation, then I think we need to open the Tibet files seriously because we're already stuffed with people and every year thousands of Tibetans come to India in exile running away from CCP agents hunting them. This is affecting the situation big time as there's more pressure on our economy. We have to backtrack on Tibet issue because Chinese backtracked on accepting Sikkim and now are aggressively trying to meddle in Kashmir which is a war between us and Pakistan only. If we start meddling in Tibet, then perhaps it would know.

    The problem is we have a weak and soft government. Gone are the days of NDA's aggressive nationalistic assertions on international arena when India had half the power it has today and still roared like a Tiger rather than a meek fawn as today's Manmohan Singh government.
     
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  7. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    I agree that they are part of Kashmir issue but problem is change of attitude in recent days. you need to show respect to your opponent when its well within the allowed limits of engagement . China keeps on crossing its limit and we are just sitting Idle and releasing hot air. What have we done to country Chinese policy of giving stapled visa to Kashmiris ? Nothing. When they can revise their policy we also have right to revise ours. Whats harm is reviewing our Tibet policy when they started Claiming Arunachal pradesh as well ? You should let enemies know that their efforts will be counter productive.
     
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  8. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    India sees shift in China's policy on Kashmir

    India is watching with concern the recent attempt by China to treat Kashmir as a tripartite issue, marking a change in its long-stated position of viewing it as a bilateral matter between India and Pakistan. China's approach on Kashmir, especially issuance of stapled-visas for Kashmiris, is a concern as it is viewed here as an attempt by Beijing to question India's sovereignty.
    Sources point to the fact that China had always held that Kashmir problem is a bilateral dispute between India and Pakistan and they were "neutral" like the US which favours resolution of the problem through an amicable settlement.

    "But when they started issuing stapled visas...that is when we found there was a shift in their stance and we pointed out to them that they were also in illegal occupation of a territory occupied by Pakistan," the sources said, alluding to Aksai Chin area of PoK which has been ceded by Pakistan to China.

    "And China is continuing issue of stapled visas. We will keep talking to China on this," they said.

    What seems to be coming out is China is now now virtually questioning India's sovereignty against the earlier practice of treating Kashmir as a bilateral dispute between India and Pakistan.

    New Delhi feels that China and Pakistan appeared to be entering into a strategic calculus in the Karakoram area where the People's Liberation Army (PLA) troops are present for highway construction.

    Indian officials feel that Pakistan seems to have ceded responsibility, if not not sovereignty, to China and this has implications for India's boundary dispute with Beijing.

    However, officials said it was important not not to indulge in "doomsday conclusions" because the relationship with China is matured and evolved in many areas.

    On the boundary question, India and China were still to evolve a convergence that could lead to an agreement but there has been tranquillity on the borders for more than two decades save for some incursions.

    India sees "some mutation" within China on issues like the role of PLA, one-party authoritarianism and its role in the neighbourhood.

    While there are challenges, sources note that India is also growing in stature as far as its role in the neighbourhood is concerned with its economy being the anchor for the region.

    India prefers low-profile investments in neighbouring countries with long term objectives while China focuses on high-profile investments for short term benefits.

    The future engagement between India and China will tend to be engaging than confrontational, officials said.
     
  9. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Releasing hot air is sign of good health for the country.=heheh
     
  10. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Although it is true that there is pressure on Indian economy because India is accepting refugees from Tibet, it would not be very humanitarian to throw them out or push them back to China-occupied Tibet. It is part of Indian culture to accept anyone who seeks shelter, especially those that are suffering or have a life threatening political entity going around head-hunting.

    Other than that, India should behave like a gentleman and return the favour to China by offering to meditate between PRC and the Uighurs and between PRC and the Tibetans, each and everytime trouble flares up in these Chinese occupied territories.
     
  11. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Chinese have taken the cheap reverse engineering policy to international relations, what a bunch of cheap copycats.
     
  12. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    My friend, being a Sikkimese I am perhaps one of the top sympathetic people towards Tibetan cause and there's no clearer proof for this than what Baichung Bhutia said before and during 2008 Beijing Olympics about boycotting it all over India when all the film stars, sportsmen for the greed of limelight were promoting the event.

    Tibet and Sinkiang are two places that are like Kashmirs for CHinese that their secret media doesn't tell out and it all depends on the spine of our ridiculous government as to what guts they have to even defend themselves.
     
  13. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    The minute China starts to makes the Kashmir cause its business, India will start to make the Tibet cause its own.

    We're not sitting in Afgh for nothing. Independent Uighuristan zindabad!
     
  14. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    ^^Ignore the Uyighur cause. We don't want a Islamist fallout in Kashmir. Remember that Islamic countries have sympathy for both Uyighurs and terrorists from Kashmir. They just don't dare to say it to Beijing because of its smart aggressive policies and complain to us because of our weakling of a PM. Focus more on Tibetan issue which is far more genuine. Uyighurs were once a part of Russian empire that were exchanged with some territories of imperial China but people come and go across the border. Having a radicalized Islamist country like that in centre of Asia is not good for anyone around. Pakistan and mulla Iran are enough already for our continent to cause trouble.

    Tibet should be the centre point of our China policy because technically, a large part of Ladakh (Aksai Chin around 19,000 sq km) is being occupied by PLA troops which they've added to Tibet, clearly when His Holiness has overtly spoken that neither Ladakh (Aksai Chin) nor Arunachal Pradesh were ever a part of Tibet and were always Indian.
     
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  15. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    You are right that we do not want any Islamist fallout in Kashmir. On the other hand, if you look at the former Soviet Central Asian Republics, they are predominantly secular in nature and have pulled all stops to prevent Radical Islamists from taking over. One example would be the civil war in Tajikistan and the unrest in Uzbekistan. We do not know what exactly the Uighurs want, however, they are indeed facing excesses from the PRC government.

    I think it would be too premature to judge the Uighurs because we know so little about their struggle. However, it is very true that since the Talibanist agents have infiltrated into East Turkestan and radicalised some people there, it should be a cause for alarm. The idea is not to provide unconditional support to the Uighurs, but to protest against Chinese repression and genuine human rights violations. There is a fine line that has to be kept in sight.
     
  16. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    INDIAN FM should tell chinese counterpart to take babaji ka ghanta
     
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  17. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    and the MATCHMAKER of that marriage was none other than our very own J Nehru ! - thanks a million
     
  18. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    There's a big difference between former USSR states which were made irreligious by force and over a period of generations, it became natural. Uyighur cause stems from Islamist tendencies apart from Ethnic tensions. That's where the danger lies.

    You're right.. but China never really cared about Human Rights who themselves have become politicized against us as well. While China may pretend to be Paki's friends, they're wary of Jihad as well. Don't be fooled by the fact that no news from them comes out. Aal izz not well there too.. :D
     
  19. s002wjh

    s002wjh Senior Member Senior Member

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    depend on the case. if the human right doesn't challenge the legitimacy of the CCP, then it usually allowed. for example the cancel copper factory due to protest. the issue for tibet is religion freedom and they want to worship dalai lama which china consider him as outlaw. Uighurs just want to be independent, if this was in 50-60s, thats fine, but now there are too many chinese live there which make impossible for them to become independent.
     
  20. Agni5

    Agni5 Regular Member

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    Lets start selling brahmos missile at no profit to Taiwan, and donate agni5 to tibetean govt. in exile.
    It's the weapon who wins the war and not the strategy, strategy leads to war, we are waiting for it, this time we would make sure, indepedence of Tibet, and Taiwan. pakistan is already supporting urumqi. best of luck china.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2012
  21. SLASH

    SLASH Senior Member Senior Member

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    China cannot afford another enemy. All hot air.
     

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