China vs. US: a Comparison

Nicky G

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1. China's 100 A-bome or USA's 1000 A-bome does not make much difference ,because either 100 a_bomb or 1000 A-bome means the destroy of one country.
So,unless USA , Russia,CHina and EU want to a sucide,none will nuke each other.

2. since industrilazation revolutions, conventional wars always has been won by the guys who can produce more steel,electricity,concrete,food,oil ,manpowers and weapons.

3. Steel\electricity/concrete/food/oil/weapons are always produced by factories and farmland. SO ,USually, those owns most factories are the winner of conventional war since industrialzation .

4. more GDP does not means more factories and farmlands.
For example, Japan has much more GDP than Russia,
But if comparing the output of industry products, you will find that RUssia in fact produce more electricity,oil,food and other resource that is decisve to wars than Japan.
Besides, USA had more GDP than CHina,but CHina produce much more than USA....

that means CHina/Russia can produce much more real resource that is decisive to war than USA/Japan during wartime.
You missed the core point - your industries which have taken years to build will get destroyed in a matter of days. You on the other hand due to lack of naval power projection cannot inflict similar damage. Thus, once your weapon factories get destroyed, you have no option but to go nuclear in an all out war - that it is unlikely is a different matter.

No, 500 nukes vs 20k nukes is not an inconsequential matter, but that's not even important to this discussion.
 

badguy2000

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You missed the core point - your industries which have taken years to build will get destroyed in a matter of days. You on the other hand due to lack of naval power projection cannot inflict similar damage. Thus, once your weapon factories get destroyed, you have no option but to go nuclear in an all out war - that it is unlikely is a different matter.

No, 500 nukes vs 20k nukes is not an inconsequential matter, but that's not even important to this discussion.
1.forget nuke war....USA could still survive as a state after its 200 largest city had been nuked.
Talking about the game of 500 NUke VS 20K nukes is meaningless.

2. USA/Russia/CHina/EU dare not attack their own homeland, because any attacking at the homeland is naturally cause nuke war...


3. only proxy war can break out among USA\EU\Russia and CHina,before nuke weapons is diabled.

4. the most possible case would be Vietnam-style or Korea-style war....

That is ,CHina/Russia/EU/USA might war against some clients states of their rivals,while those client state were armed by their big brother...
that is exactly what happens to Ukraine.
It might happen to PRC vs Taiwan or PRC vs the Phlips

5. anyhow, main powers such as USA/EU/RUssia/China would avoid direct conflicts.
 

Aravind Sanjeev

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As of now from my perspective, China has a lot to improve on their military industrial complex. China still buys a lot of their equipment from Russia. China is the only country that is yet to develop an aircraft carrier within the P5. (I heard China was planning so correct me if I am wrong.)

A straight comparison between China and US, the technology, productivity, research done, all goes to the United States. China however managed to dominate in numbers. China has more men working on their army than that of the US and of course, airplanes, tanks and some other stuff. I don’t want to type all of them.

But with all that being said, China does not hold enough ability to distribute all these advancements. US for example have about 10 Aircraft Carriers and have more than 500 bases operating out of the US. There are bases even in South Korea, so literally all Chinese exports are in the risk and surveillance of the US navy. You know what is going to happen if a war breaks out; US can easily block the Chinese exports there by significantly affecting the country’s economy. (China is all on exports with countries having higher GDP per capita which is majorly western countries who are allies of the US)

So on a military basis, US is much superior and on economic basis, US economy comes from interest rates, that is more than half of it but all of Chinese economy are from exports/manufacturing which can be damaged by the US like I said before. So again, if there is a situation of economic warfare, US economy is very secure than the Chinese economy.

Now let me take a look on the political and soft power influence. US is a country with largest recorded political and soft power influence across the globe. The country has good influence over European economies that are of course other major economies that is also within the NATO. Due to the nature of the NATO alliance, you can’t expect them to do nothing and their involvement in a war can drastically pull the result to their side.

Now if you take China, well you know before I speak, Chinese lacks any influence over major countries but China have a good soft power influence over African nations. But those countries are well you know again, not going to be a drastic change and there doesn’t exist any alliance like NATO in the case of China. So the political battle is again won by the US.


While China may not win a war with the United States and there might be a set of deliberate agreements such as “not hurting each other’s exports” then China could do better, that is enough to damage US significantly even with an ultimate failure.

So both countries will be keen on not provoking a direct war and US may dare not to attack China because that could be a very bad decision for their continued dominance (Same as the case of Russia.)

So in the end, China is a formidable power that can defend and win their interest from any uni-polarity from US or west without the fear of any intervention because it won’t be so beneficial for the other and will continue to be a big economic game changer and regional dominator.

I am still yet to talk about domestic problems, stability and diplomatic power that is largely influence by the mode of regime, but I think all of them are much less inclusive on the subject in talk here.

You reached the end of my rant. Congrats.
 

badguy2000

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As of now from my perspective, China has a lot to improve on their military industrial complex. China still buys a lot of their equipment from Russia. China is the only country that is yet to develop an aircraft carrier within the P5. (I heard China was planning so correct me if I am wrong.)

A straight comparison between China and US, the technology, productivity, research done, all goes to the United States. China however managed to dominate in numbers. China has more men working on their army than that of the US and of course, airplanes, tanks and some other stuff. I don’t want to type all of them.

But with all that being said, China does not hold enough ability to distribute all these advancements. US for example have about 10 Aircraft Carriers and have more than 500 bases operating out of the US. There are bases even in South Korea, so literally all Chinese exports are in the risk and surveillance of the US navy. You know what is going to happen if a war breaks out; US can easily block the Chinese exports there by significantly affecting the country’s economy. (China is all on exports with countries having higher GDP per capita which is majorly western countries who are allies of the US)

So on a military basis, US is much superior and on economic basis, US economy comes from interest rates, that is more than half of it but all of Chinese economy are from exports/manufacturing which can be damaged by the US like I said before. So again, if there is a situation of economic warfare, US economy is very secure than the Chinese economy.

Now let me take a look on the political and soft power influence. US is a country with largest recorded political and soft power influence across the globe. The country has good influence over European economies that are of course other major economies that is also within the NATO. Due to the nature of the NATO alliance, you can’t expect them to do nothing and their involvement in a war can drastically pull the result to their side.

Now if you take China, well you know before I speak, Chinese lacks any influence over major countries but China have a good soft power influence over African nations. But those countries are well you know again, not going to be a drastic change and there doesn’t exist any alliance like NATO in the case of China. So the political battle is again won by the US.


While China may not win a war with the United States and there might be a set of deliberate agreements such as “not hurting each other’s exports” then China could do better, that is enough to damage US significantly even with an ultimate failure.

So both countries will be keen on not provoking a direct war and US may dare not to attack China because that could be a very bad decision for their continued dominance (Same as the case of Russia.)

So in the end, China is a formidable power that can defend and win their interest from any uni-polarity from US or west without the fear of any intervention because it won’t be so beneficial for the other and will continue to be a big economic game changer and regional dominator.

I am still yet to talk about domestic problems, stability and diplomatic power that is largely influence by the mode of regime, but I think all of them are much less inclusive on the subject in talk here.

You reached the end of my rant. Congrats.
1. powerful military force roots from powerful economy and decent R&D , after industry revoltion.
limited budget sinks more british navy fleet than any formidable enemy.
the whole Soviet red navy colasped without any enemy firing after the economy of Soviet colapsed

2. Powerful economy and decent R&D come from vigorous industry activity.
S.Arabia and other Opec countries are rich,but have no its own industry chains,so they can not have their own R&D and defence industry complex.. so, they are always clients states however rich they are.
Instead, only USA,EU,CHina and EU have their own indpendent industry chains and can mantain decent military force.

3. USA is not in a good position to keep on its military superiority,while its real economy scale has been surpassed by CHina.
If USA can not change its economy_going_down, Powerful US navy would be sunk by limited budget,just as powerful British navy was after WWII.

4. vigorous R&D activity were always supported by huge budget and fund.
Before WWII, German and UK had more advanced R&D than USA.but
it was that USA could provide more budgets for R&D that USA"S R&D could surpass UK,German after WWII.
Soviet had once very advanced R&D and was the first country that launched satellite and spaceships.but its R&D had been left by west countries because its economy was weakened and could not provide enough fund later.

Now, USA would face the same problem German and SOviet faced once, that is, its R&D might had less budget than its rivial.


5.Thus, in a word.
USA is still leading militarily and technically,but its leading is very hard to be maitained,because its industry scale is being surpassed by CHina( if it has not been surpassed).

Ulmimately, powerufl military force comes from vigorous industry .
when Industry superiority is gone, USA has to consider cutting its defence budget naturelly,just as Biritish did after WWII.
 
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Aravind Sanjeev

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1. powerful military force roots from powerful economy and decent R&D , after industry revoltion.

limited budget sinks more british navy fleet than any formidable enemy.

the whole Soviet red navy colasped without any enemy firing after the economy of Soviet colapsed


2. Powerful economy and decent R&D come from vigorous industry activity.

S.Arabia and other Opec countries are rich,but have no its own industry chains,so they can not have their own R&D and defence industry complex.. so, they are always clients states however rich they are.

Instead, only USA,EU,CHina and EU have their own indpendent industry chains and can mantain decent military force.


3. USA is not in a good position to keep on its military superiority,while its real economy scale has been surpassed by CHina.

If USA can not change its economy_going_down, Powerful US navy would be sunk by limited budget,just as powerful British navy was after WWII.


4. vigorous R&D activity were always supported by huge budget and fund.

Before WWII, German and UK had more advanced R&D than USA.but

it was that USA could provide more budgets for R&D that USA"S R&D could surpass UK,German after WWII.

Soviet had once very advanced R&D and was the first country that launched satellite and spaceships.but its R&D had been left by west countries because its economy was weakened and could not provide enough fund later.


Now, USA would face the same problem German and SOviet faced once, that is, its R&D might had less budget than its rivial.



5.Thus, in a word.

USA is still leading militarily and technically,but its leading is very hard to be maitained,because its industry scale is being surpassed by CHina( if it has not been surpassed).


Ulmimately, powerufl military force comes from vigorous industry .

when Industry superiority is gone, USA has to consider cutting its defence budget naturelly,just as Biritish did after WWII.

1. That’s a fact. But China has a decent economy but not yet a decent military industry. China is not doing what it could have been doing by now, I am comparing the present not guessing the future, the future maybe bright for China instead.

2. China does have a good R&D sector and a nice pool of talent. I am not denying it.

3. China only surpassed US by purchasing power parity. But Nominal GDP is what we simply refer as "GDP" is what it is important. I don’t understand what the “real economic scale” is supposed to mean, you mean “Real GDP”? Which is an adjusted macroeconomic measure based on inflation or deflation. I won’t go to the details but if you are talking about PPP basis, it is just a technique to determine the relative value of currencies; it is made because it is far stable and constant than real market exchange rates. It is a theory.

4. Yes, China is growing. But as well Chinese economy are going down too. It still has a large economic growth but it is from the manipulated infrastructure development. When these requirements are to be off, Chinese economy is going to fall stable and grow at around 2-3% annually. Remember China won’t be an investment lead economy forever; it will settle down and become a consumer lead economy. China’s average population is going to be 50 above that is 15 years higher than working class age limit of 35. It’s no wonder that aged population is not going to play along with the economy especially when a young populated country like India having an average age of 29 year old, the investments is going to swift.


5. USA economy is not entirely depending on Industry, it is in fact depending on interest rates. You see there is a difference, US don’t has half the manufacturing of the Chinese but have around 7 trillion $ higher GDP and they all come from simple interest rates. (Meaning China is already dominating the industries.)
So US is not going to fall if Industry where to collapse. China is far vulnerable to that. But if a currency where to Challenge dollar rates and reserve currency status the same would have a reverse effect. A fall in interest rates will lead to collapse of US economy. But that means a currency such Euro or Yuan rising to the status of dollar as world reserve currency. Daily exchanges of Yuan or Euro should be in trillions. That is a jaw dropping amount.

But take Yuan for account, if China keeps on loosing it’s working class, how is it suppose to keep up the manufacturing. USA does not have manufacturing (Industries) to back its economy but neither any currency to challenge its global dominance of interest rates.
 

badguy2000

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1. That’s a fact. But China has a decent economy but not yet a decent military industry. China is not doing what it could have been doing by now, I am comparing the present not guessing the future, the future maybe bright for China instead.

2. China does have a good R&D sector and a nice pool of talent. I am not denying it.

3. China only surpassed US by purchasing power parity. But Nominal GDP is what we simply refer as "GDP" is what it is important. I don’t understand what the “real economic scale” is supposed to mean, you mean “Real GDP”? Which is an adjusted macroeconomic measure based on inflation or deflation. I won’t go to the details but if you are talking about PPP basis, it is just a technique to determine the relative value of currencies; it is made because it is far stable and constant than real market exchange rates. It is a theory.

4. Yes, China is growing. But as well Chinese economy are going down too. It still has a large economic growth but it is from the manipulated infrastructure development. When these requirements are to be off, Chinese economy is going to fall stable and grow at around 2-3% annually. Remember China won’t be an investment lead economy forever; it will settle down and become a consumer lead economy. China’s average population is going to be 50 above that is 15 years higher than working class age limit of 35. It’s no wonder that aged population is not going to play along with the economy especially when a young populated country like India having an average age of 29 year old, the investments is going to swift.


5. USA economy is not entirely depending on Industry, it is in fact depending on interest rates. You see there is a difference, US don’t has half the manufacturing of the Chinese but have around 7 trillion $ higher GDP and they all come from simple interest rates. (Meaning China is already dominating the industries.)
So US is not going to fall if Industry where to collapse. China is far vulnerable to that. But if a currency where to Challenge dollar rates and reserve currency status the same would have a reverse effect. A fall in interest rates will lead to collapse of US economy. But that means a currency such Euro or Yuan rising to the status of dollar as world reserve currency. Daily exchanges of Yuan or Euro should be in trillions. That is a jaw dropping amount.

But take Yuan for account, if China keeps on loosing it’s working class, how is it suppose to keep up the manufacturing. USA does not have manufacturing (Industries) to back its economy but neither any currency to challenge its global dominance of interest rates.
1. "real economy scale" is those GDP that are helpful to raise people life quailty or make the country more powerful.
it should exclude those "unhelpful GDP"


2. "unhelpful GDP"

"unhelful GDP" are those neither helpful to raise people's life quality ,nor helpful to make the country more powerful,such as wall street magic "poisonous bonds", abusive medial expenditure,lawsuit fee and Virtual rent...

a good example is expensive medical care and high lawsuit service in USA...
both are big parts of USA's GDP, but those high cost obvously are "unhelpful GDP",because expensive medical care and lawsuit serivce just lower American's real life quality.


3.Problem is that GDP of USA has much more such "unhelpful sectors" than CHina.

For example,
about 10% of USA's GDP is "virtual rent",that is almost equal to the Total GDP of India.
However, OF China's GDP, "virtual rent" is almost Zero,because CHinse GDP simplly exclude "virtual rent"

Another example is Wall street poisonous bonds..which make wall street fat cat happy and makes USA's GDP look nice, but it harms USA.


4. Real wealth comes from real industry sectors such as plants,farming-land, mining and construction.
those sectors provides what people needs,from chips to ships ,from food,to clothes,from phones to cars.
those sectors provides what one powerful miliary force needs, from tanks to warships, from missles to planes.


5. During wartime, the country who can produce more real wealth,such as food,ship,steel,concret,mining,cars and electricity usually has edge on the country who can produce more "visional rent", "expensive medical care and lawsuit service" and "poinsonous bond".
 
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badguy2000

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Compared with CHina,USA"s economy is hollow,although its GDP look nicer.
USA's enormous "unhelpful GDP" (expensive medical care and lawsuit service,virtual rent ) can neither provide its people affordable quality medcial and law service,nor provide decent and affordable arms for its defence force.

maybe let's study the matter in another perspective:

Last years ,China's 11 trillion USD GDP produced 2 times more autos,10 times more coals,steel, additional houses and other " helpful industry products" for CHinese people than USA's 17 trillion USD GDP did for USA people.
At the same time, USA's 17 Trillion USD GDP produced much more expensive mecial-care&lawsuit service,poionous bonds ,"virtual rent" and other "unhelpful sectors" than CHina's 11 Trillion USD GDP did .
 
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Aravind Sanjeev

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1. "real economy scale" is those GDP that are helpful to raise people life quailty or make the country more powerful.
it should exclude those "unhelpful GDP"


2. "unhelpful GDP"

"unhelful GDP" are those neither helpful to raise people's life quality ,nor helpful to make the country more powerful,such as wall street magic "poisonous bonds", abusive medial expenditure,lawsuit fee and Virtual rent...

a good example is expensive medical care and high lawsuit cost in USA...
both are big parts of USA's GDP, but those high cost obvously are "unhelpful GDP",because expensive medical care and lawsuit serivce just lower American's real life quality.


3.Problem is that GDP of USA has much more such "unhelpful sectors" than CHina.

For example,
about 10% of USA's GDP is "virtual rent",that is almost equal to the Total GDP of India.
However, OF China's GDP, "virtual rent" is almost Zero,because CHinse GDP simplly exclude "virtual rent"

Another example is Wall street poisonous bonds..which make wall street fat cat happy and makes USA's GDP look nice, but it harms USA.


4. Real wealth comes from real industry sectors such as plants,farming-land, mining and construction.
those sectors provides what people needs,from chips to ships ,from food,to clothes,from phones to cars.
those sectors provides what one powerful miliary force needs, from tanks to warships, from missles to planes.


5. During wartime, the country who can produce more real wealth,such as food,ship,steel,concret,mining,cars and electricity usually has edge on the country who can produce more "visional rent", "expensive medical care and lawsuit service" and "poinsonous bond".

10% of American economy come from organized crime. >'

1. Majority of economy come from interest rates. Not the manipulated or non-real whatever.

2. Yes there are lot of manipulated economy in the US so is China. All the projects like ghost town where used to keep up economic growth even during 2008 crisis by forcefully increasing the need of raw materials like cement. China used more cement in 3 years than US in the last century.

3. US have enough manufacturing per population. It is certainly not near China but US have everything on set for their 300 million people. It can never be higher than China of course because China have billions of people and will have larger so-called "real wealth" sector. But that doesn't means US can't keep it up on the war, actually China will have more trouble as per population and resources requirements are concerned.

About the medical thingy, Virtual rent, well I agree this kind of figures are need not required. They will harm the country, but for US being largest economy is a reputation and as long as they keep receiving money from the interest rates (Dollar is world's reserve currency, they can print like shit.) there budget will always be big. Of course if the country runs out of tract too much, there will be a larger budget deficit and the economy is going to collapse. Chinese are the same talking about the working class and manufacturing sector but a much slower process.
 

badguy2000

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10% of American economy come from organized crime. >'

1. Majority of economy come from interest rates. Not the manipulated or non-real whatever.

2. Yes there are lot of manipulated economy in the US so is China. All the projects like ghost town where used to keep up economic growth even during 2008 crisis by forcefully increasing the need of raw materials like cement. China used more cement in 3 years than US in the last century.

3. US have enough manufacturing per population. It is certainly not near China but US have everything on set for their 300 million people. It can never be higher than China of course because China have billions of people and will have larger so-called "real wealth" sector. But that doesn't means US can't keep it up on the war, actually China will have more trouble as per population and resources requirements are concerned.

About the medical thingy, Virtual rent, well I agree this kind of figures are need not required. They will harm the country, but for US being largest economy is a reputation and as long as they keep receiving money from the interest rates (Dollar is world's reserve currency, they can print like shit.) there budget will always be big. Of course if the country runs out of tract too much, there will be a larger budget deficit and the economy is going to collapse. Chinese are the same talking about the working class and manufacturing sector but a much slower process.
1.of course USA is still ahead,measured by per capital economy. Otherwise,we would talk about "China vs USA+Eu+Japan",instead of "China vs USA" 2. Measured with per capita electricity consumption(a objective indice to show real life quality),chinese one is about 1/3 of USA, and almost equal to east europe. 3."Ghost town" in china are overrated . Most "ghost towns" usually become occupied downtowns several years after they are finished. the speed and scale of urbanization in china is usually out of the imagination and understanding of westers and other people outside china. 4. Usa still has world 2nd largest real industry sector,only behind china. Remember,USA produced 15m aotos last year.it was less than CHINA,but is still 5times more than 1.2t populated India. 5.Usa can not print Usd like shit. At least,usd_printing is still conscist with its real industry output,otherwise,USd would be rejected and valueless.
 
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Satybharat

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Rise of China was very very fast and unnatural....they will fall even faster rate
 

Nicky G

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1.forget nuke war....USA could still survive as a state after its 200 largest city had been nuked.
Talking about the game of 500 NUke VS 20K nukes is meaningless.

2. USA/Russia/CHina/EU dare not attack their own homeland, because any attacking at the homeland is naturally cause nuke war...


3. only proxy war can break out among USA\EU\Russia and CHina,before nuke weapons is diabled.

4. the most possible case would be Vietnam-style or Korea-style war....

That is ,CHina/Russia/EU/USA might war against some clients states of their rivals,while those client state were armed by their big brother...
that is exactly what happens to Ukraine.
It might happen to PRC vs Taiwan or PRC vs the Phlips

5. anyhow, main powers such as USA/EU/RUssia/China would avoid direct conflicts.
That is understood and I have considered or included those points in my posts, the subject under discussion was that China and Russia can sustain in a prolonged war with the west - they cannot. Only US and possibly EU can hope to do that.
 

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China against US for example will not be a long war before China has no option but to go nuclear. They can park their CBG and destroy your factories that produce weapons. How many do you guys have to reciprocate?
No, USA can't destroy Chinese weapon production lines without using nukes because:
1. Most of Chinese military factories are locating thousands miles away from either side of Chinese border-specifically Sichuan, they were built for WW3. US air force can destroy them without taking great loss.
2. Most of Chinese military factories were built inside mountains, covered hundreds meters rocks.
3. US air force is simply not that good, think about Kosovo war, months long air strike didn't bring much damage to those military targets.

You would also lack many key cutting edge technologies that you get from the Russia.
There is no any key cutting edge technology from Russia can't be replaced by Chinese product. The Chinese parts may not be as good as Russian, but still good enough to keep the weapon functional.

Merely numbers are not enough. When it does nuclear, your 500 or so against 20K or more is no contest.
In order to take out 240 Chinese nuclear weapons, US has to use significantly part of her nuclear war heads, which will give another player the chance to win----Russia.
 

no smoking

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That is understood and I have considered or included those points in my posts, the subject under discussion was that China and Russia can sustain in a prolonged war with the west - they cannot. Only US and possibly EU can hope to do that.
No, only US, Russia and China can afford a prolonged war because all of them have been designing and building their military industries around this WW3. EU has never planned that. In the cold war, EU was supposed to be the battle filed of nuclear war, no one expecting them to continue production weeks after war starts (maybe UK can).
 

Nicky G

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No, USA can't destroy Chinese weapon production lines without using nukes because:
1. Most of Chinese military factories are locating thousands miles away from either side of Chinese border-specifically Sichuan, they were built for WW3. US air force can destroy them without taking great loss.
2. Most of Chinese military factories were built inside mountains, covered hundreds meters rocks.
3. US air force is simply not that good, think about Kosovo war, months long air strike didn't bring much damage to those military targets.
Factories are only one aspect, if routes are destroyed - weapons can't be transferred and that's just one way.

Your first point agrees that USAF can destroy - or did you mean something else?

Cave-ins - look it up. Transit routes can be destroyed easily. That means no raw material for factories and no route for finished products.

Kosovo - not a fair comparison as here e are talking about all out war. That was hardly it.

There is no any key cutting edge technology from Russia can't be replaced by Chinese product. The Chinese parts may not be as good as Russian, but still good enough to keep the weapon functional.
Eh.. come on, do you even have a real carrier?

In order to take out 240 Chinese nuclear weapons, US has to use significantly part of her nuclear war heads, which will give another player the chance to win----Russia.
How? What ratio are you taking? 1:100?

Now if you are going to bring in Russia - that means bring in countries who's be happy to see the destruction of China too.

Every such conflict will likely escalate to a full scale war - that was not really the point.
 

Nicky G

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No, only US, Russia and China can afford a prolonged war because all of them have been designing and building their military industries around this WW3. EU has never planned that. In the cold war, EU was supposed to be the battle filed of nuclear war, no one expecting them to continue production weeks after war starts (maybe UK can).
Russia has no money to sustain any prolonged war effort. In a real war, pressure will be put for no one to buy their oil and gas further crushing them. Globalization has made them vulnerable - they are not the Soviet Union anymore. They will lose without many shots fired.

China has already been covered - too weak militarily compared to US / Russia.

EU - is very debatable.
 

Aravind Sanjeev

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Russia has no money to sustain any prolonged war effort. In a real war, pressure will be put for no one to buy their oil and gas further crushing them. Globalization has made them vulnerable - they are not the Soviet Union anymore. They will lose without many shots fired.

China has already been covered - too weak militarily compared to US / Russia.

EU - is very debatable.
EU don't have a unified army, UK is soon leaving EU, all European economies have slow growth, some of them heading towards recession. There is objections in decision taking. There are lot of criticism about decisions being bent towards the advantage of larger economies like Germany, France, Italy or the UK. In a war, smaller countries like Sweden or Norway cannot do nearly anything like other countries such as UK.

And again, there is not even a treaty of mutual defense in terms of EU, there is this NATO that is instead used for what US want to be without hurting themselves much.

EU is a failed experiment if you ask me.
 

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EU don't have a unified army, UK is soon leaving EU, all European economies have slow growth, some of them heading towards recession. There is objections in decision taking. There are lot of criticism about decisions being bent towards the advantage of larger economies like Germany, France, Italy or the UK. In a war, smaller countries like Sweden or Norway cannot do nearly anything like other countries such as UK.

And again, there is not even a treaty of mutual defense in terms of EU, there is this NATO that is instead used for what US want to be without hurting themselves much.

EU is a failed experiment if you ask me.
Not really the thread for the EU in itself - we can do it in much greater detail in another thread if you wish.

People have been calling EU a failed experiment for a while now - it continues to have its way. Greece refused the bailout and then meekly accepted a worse deal. If you do some research, the EU parliament is the one that makes the real laws. That will only increase with time.

UK will never be allowed to leave the EU. If a referendum happens and if people opt to vote out - Scotland which desperately wants to be in EU will demand once more to separate from UK and eventually the middle ground - the status quo will be maintained. Anyway who follows UK politics knows this.

EU is ultimately about removing democracy from the people of Europe and creating a federal United States of Europe. Actually, I am for it - since I don't consider everyone deserves a right to vote.

As for EU military - the proposals from the very top are already there - it will happen within the next decade.
 

Aravind Sanjeev

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Not really the thread for the EU in itself - we can do it in much greater detail in another thread if you wish.

People have been calling EU a failed experiment for a while now - it continues to have its way. Greece refused the bailout and then meekly accepted a worse deal. If you do some research, the EU parliament is the one that makes the real laws. That will only increase with time.

UK will never be allowed to leave the EU. If a referendum happens and if people opt to vote out - Scotland which desperately wants to be in EU will demand once more to separate from UK and eventually the middle ground - the status quo will be maintained. Anyway who follows UK politics knows this.

EU is ultimately about removing democracy from the people of Europe and creating a federal United States of Europe. Actually, I am for it - since I don't consider everyone deserves a right to vote.

As for EU military - the proposals from the very top are already there - it will happen within the next decade.
UK at the same time can't also happen to stand the immigration to their country. British are being outnumbered in their own city of London. Leaving EU will happen to harm the UK very well and whatever the referendum turns out to be.

European Union wielding under a common reign is a great idea, even if EU military and even further enhancement of becoming under a common parliament is done, I highly doubt EU will actually become a single unified nation. Euro is not even permitted to be used by all the economies and only few countries use it and not even Britain being one of major economy uses it.

The UK negotiated an opt-out from the part of the Maastricht Treaty of 1992 that would have required it to adopt the common currency, and the Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition government elected in May 2010 pledged not to adopt the euro as its currency for the lifetime of the parliament. Polls show that the majority of British people are against adopting the euro.


The bigger problem is, Europe loosing out the economy, all major economies are declining, there population is aging (=decrease in workforce) all this leads to only further disintegration of their ties.

Even if you are right and EU is heading to become united, they won't wielding so much power in the future.
 

badguy2000

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Russia has no money to sustain any prolonged war effort. In a real war, pressure will be put for no one to buy their oil and gas further crushing them. Globalization has made them vulnerable - they are not the Soviet Union anymore. They will lose without many shots fired.

China has already been covered - too weak militarily compared to US / Russia.

EU - is very debatable.
what sustains prolonged wars is not "unhelpful GDP"(wallstreet bonds,expensive lawsuit),but "helpful GDP"(manufacturing,farming and mining) . russia stilll has decent "helpful GDP",which is enough to sustain prolonged wars.
 

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