China: The world's cleverest country?

Discussion in 'China' started by cir, May 9, 2012.

  1. cir

    cir Senior Member Senior Member

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    8 May 2012 Last updated at 23:03 GMT

    By Sean Coughlan

    BBC News education correspondent

    China's results in international education tests - which have never been published - are "remarkable", says Andreas Schleicher, responsible for the highly-influential Pisa tests.

    [​IMG]
    This is the most extensive insight into how China's school standards compare with other countries

    These tests, held every three years by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, measure pupils' skills in reading, numeracy and science.

    Pisa tests - the Programme for International Student Assessment - have become the leading international benchmark.

    The findings indicate that China has an education system that is overtaking many Western countries.

    While there has been intense interest in China's economic and political development, this provides the most significant insight into how it is teaching the next generation.

    'Incredible resilience'

    The Pisa 2009 tests showed that Shanghai was top of the international education rankings.

    But it was unclear whether Shanghai and another chart-topper, Hong Kong, were unrepresentative regional showcases.

    [​IMG]
    The OECD's Andreas Schleicher: "Fairness and relevance are not the same thing"

    Mr Schleicher says the unpublished results reveal that pupils in other parts of China are also performing strongly.

    "Even in rural areas and in disadvantaged environments, you see a remarkable performance."

    In particular, he said the test results showed the "resilience" of pupils to succeed despite tough backgrounds - and the "high levels of equity" between rich and poor pupils.

    "Shanghai is an exceptional case - and the results there are close to what I expected. But what surprised me more were the results from poor provinces that came out really well. The levels of resilience are just incredible.

    "In China, the idea is so deeply rooted that education in the key to mobility and success."

    Investing in the future

    The results for disadvantaged pupils would be the envy of any Western country, he says.

    Mr Schleicher is confident of the robustness of this outline view of China's education standards.

    In an attempt to get a representative picture, tests were taken in nine provinces, including poor, middle-income and wealthier regions.

    [​IMG]
    High school students shout slogans such as "I must go to college" in a pre-exam event in Nanjing

    The Chinese government has so far not allowed the OECD to publish the actual data.:thumb:

    But Mr Schleicher says the results reveal a picture of a society investing individually and collectively in education.

    On a recent trip to a poor province in China, he says he saw that schools were often the most impressive buildings.

    He says in the West, it is more likely to be a shopping centre.

    "You get an image of a society that is investing in its future, rather than in current consumption."

    There were also major cultural differences when teenagers were asked about why people succeeded at school.

    "North Americans tell you typically it's all luck. 'I'm born talented in mathematics, or I'm born less talented so I'll study something else.'

    "In Europe, it's all about social heritage: 'My father was a plumber so I'm going to be a plumber'.

    "In China, more than nine out of 10 children tell you: 'It depends on the effort I invest and I can succeed if I study hard.'

    "They take on responsibility. They can overcome obstacles and say 'I'm the owner of my own success', rather than blaming it on the system."

    For more click on: BBC News - China: The world's cleverest country?
     
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  3. mahesh

    mahesh Regular Member

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    i feel happy for asian countries up for the challenge in beating west in education field.

    in our country it's quite contrary, before the results are out, our media predicts everything!!! Nothing is covered up.
    So whatever we have to do in our system in like playing a chess game, openly showing the game plan to the world and saying "mate, this is our strategy, if you can make a better move ?" we are left with only option to play the game openly and transparently...and royally :)

    AND ALSO I WOULD LIKE TO INCLUDE, THAT HERE ALSO THE SCHOOLS HAVE A LOT OF IMPROVEMENT IN EDUCATION SYSTEM, MOST OF THEM SCHOOLS HAVE EDUCOMP SMART CLASSES.

    BUT BECAUSE OF THIS, THERE IS A HELL LOT OF INCREASE IN THE FEE STRUCTURES ALSO, I JUST ADMITTED MY DAUGHTER TO NURSERY FOR 57K AND OTHER MISCELLANEOUS THINGS WILL BRING IT TO MINIMUM 62 TO 65K, ON THE OTHER HAND MY TWIN BROTHERS WHO ARE STUDYING COMPUTER APPLICATIONS AND BUSINESS MANAGEMENT ARE ALSO PAYING 55K & 60k RESPECTIVELY,
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2012
  4. satish007

    satish007 Senior Member Senior Member

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    yes, Chiese are smart, but still short of courage and intellegent to choose their own authorities.
     
  5. LTE-TDD

    LTE-TDD Regular Member

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    BBC News - China: The world's cleverest country?

    China: The world's cleverest country?By Sean Coughlan

    BBC News education correspondent

    China's results in international education tests - which have never been published - are "remarkable", says Andreas Schleicher, responsible for the highly-influential Pisa tests.

    These tests, held every three years by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, measure pupils' skills in reading, numeracy and science.

    Pisa tests - the Programme for International Student Assessment - have become the leading international benchmark.

    The findings indicate that China has an education system that is overtaking many Western countries.

    'Incredible resilience'

    The Pisa 2009 tests showed that Shanghai was top of the international education rankings.

    But it was unclear whether Shanghai and another chart-topper, Hong Kong, were unrepresentative regional showcases.

    The OECD's Andreas Schleicher: "Fairness and relevance are not the same thing"
    Mr Schleicher says the unpublished results reveal that pupils in other parts of China are also performing strongly.

    "Even in rural areas and in disadvantaged environments, you see a remarkable performance."

    In particular, he said the test results showed the "resilience" of pupils to succeed despite tough backgrounds - and the "high levels of equity" between rich and poor pupils.

    "Shanghai is an exceptional case - and the results there are close to what I expected. But what surprised me more were the results from poor provinces that came out really well. The levels of resilience are just incredible.

    "In China, the idea is so deeply rooted that education is the key to mobility and success."

    Investing in the future

    The results for disadvantaged pupils would be the envy of any Western country, he says.

    Mr Schleicher is confident of the robustness of this outline view of China's education standards.

    In an attempt to get a representative picture, tests were taken in nine provinces, including poor, middle-income and wealthier regions.

    High school students shout slogans such as "I must go to college" in a pre-exam event in Nanjing
    The Chinese government has so far not allowed the OECD to publish the actual data.

    But Mr Schleicher says the results reveal a picture of a society investing individually and collectively in education.

    On a recent trip to a poor province in China, he says he saw that schools were often the most impressive buildings.

    He says in the West, it is more likely to be a shopping centre.

    "You get an image of a society that is investing in its future, rather than in current consumption."

    There were also major cultural differences when teenagers were asked about why people succeeded at school.

    "North Americans tell you typically it's all luck. 'I'm born talented in mathematics, or I'm born less talented so I'll study something else.'

    "In Europe, it's all about social heritage: 'My father was a plumber so I'm going to be a plumber'.

    "In China, more than nine out of 10 children tell you: 'It depends on the effort I invest and I can succeed if I study hard.'

    "They take on responsibility. They can overcome obstacles and say 'I'm the owner of my own success', rather than blaming it on the system."

    Education's World Cup

    This year will see another round of Pisa tests - it's like World Cup year for international education. And Mr Schleicher's tips for the next fast-improving countries are Brazil, Turkey and Poland.

    Continue reading the main story
    GLOBAL EDUCATION RANKINGS
    Pisa tests are taken by 15-year-olds in reading, maths and science. Previous leaders in these subjects:

    2000: Finland, Japan, South Korea
    2003: Finland, Hong Kong, Finland
    2006: South Korea, Taipei, Finland
    2009: Shanghai, Shanghai, Shanghai

    Mr Schleicher, a German based in the OECD's Paris headquarters, has become the godfather of such global education comparisons.

    Armed with a spreadsheet and an impeccably polite manner, his opinions receive close attention in the world's education departments.

    The White House responded to the last Pisa results with President Barack Obama's observation that the nation which "out-educates us today will out-compete us tomorrow".

    The next round of global league tables will test 500,000 pupils in more than 70 countries - with the results to be published late next year.

    Education ministers will be looking nervously at the outcome.

    "In the past, politicians could always say we're doing better than last year - everyone could be a success," he says, describing the tendency for national results to rise each year.

    The arrival of Pisa tests sent an icy draught through these insulated corridors.

    No excuses

    Perhaps the biggest discomfort of all was for Germany - where "Pisa shock" described the discovery that their much vaunted education system was distinctly average.

    Finland was the education world leader in rankings a decade ago
    And the biggest change in attitude, he says, has been the United States - once with no interest in looking abroad, now enthusiastically borrowing ideas from other countries.

    "Education is a field dominated by beliefs and traditions, it's inward looking. As a system you can find all kinds of excuses and explanations for not succeeding.

    "The idea of Pisa was to take away all the excuses.

    "People say you can only improve an education system over 25 years - but look at Poland and Singapore, which have improved in a very short time, we've seen dramatic changes."

    The biggest lesson of the Pisa tests, he says, is showing there is nothing inevitable about how schools perform.

    "Poverty is no longer destiny. You can see this at the level of economies, such as South Korea, Singapore."

    Fair comparison?

    A criticism of such rankings has been that it is unfair. How can an impoverished developing country be compared with the stockpiled multiple advantages of a wealthy Scandinavian nation?

    Here Mr Schleicher makes a significant distinction. It might not be fair, but such comparisons are extremely relevant. "Relevance and fairness are not the same thing," he says.

    South Korea is identified by the OECD as an example how education can drive economic growth
    Youngsters in the poorest countries are still competing in a global economy. "It's a terrible thing to take away the global perspective."

    He also attacks the idea of accepting lower expectations for poorer children - saying this was the "big trap in the 1970s".

    "It was giving the disadvantaged child an excuse - you come from a poor background, so we'll lower the horizon for you, we'll make it easier.

    "But that child has still got to compete in a national labour market.

    "This concept of 'fairness' is deeply unfair - because by making life easier for children from difficult circumstances, we lower their life chances."

    'Sorting mechanism'

    So why are the rising stars in Asia proving so successful?

    Mr Schleicher says it's a philosophical difference - expecting all pupils to make the grade, rather than a "sorting mechanism" to find a chosen few.

    He says anyone can create an education system where a few at the top succeed, the real challenge is to push through the entire cohort.

    In China, he says this means using the best teachers in the toughest schools.

    The shifting in the balance of power will be measured again with Pisa 2012, with pupils sitting tests from Stockholm to Seoul, London to Los Angeles, Ankara to Adelaide.

    "I don't think of Pisa as being about ranking, it tells you what's possible. How well could we be doing?"


    While there has been intense interest in China's economic and political development, this provides the most significant insight into how it is teaching the next generation.
     
  6. niharjhatn

    niharjhatn Regular Member

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    Funny how getting grades is somehow linked to 'cleverness'.

    If you slave your arse off to get good marks - does that make you clever?

    Indian Uni's have been involved in the same BS criteria for admission. Students pushed by their parents get into good colleges, and then fail spectacularly once they find their newfound 'freedom'.

    Compare this to uni's like UC Berkley which barely look at marks at all for admission.

    Interesting idea about the poorer social strata though -
    Holds true if marks are still the standard by which the world works. But I hope we move away from that.
     
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  7. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    End justifies the means, so yes, PRC is very clever. No matter how much one protests that they copied, cloned, and counterfeited, what matters at the end of the day is that they have fairly good military equipment manufacturing capabilities.

    Are they clever? Yes!
     
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  8. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    If they are a clever people, why are they still slaves? They cant be that clever afterall. Either that, or clever and courage dont go together.
     
  9. s002wjh

    s002wjh Senior Member Senior Member

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    i won't call them slave. the ccp satisfy majority of chinese by continually have economic growth of 8%, and hire as many worker as possible. when people have job/work/something to do, they are less likely to revolt. however, due to increase in middile class, people will demand more things, more freedom. the biggest obstacle china face today are land graping, corruption, and other domestic issues.
     
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  10. SLASH

    SLASH Senior Member Senior Member

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    Very true. Private companies will also be cautious of the fact that the kids from the lower strata of the society have their grades inflated. This will lead to unemployment of a deserving candidate from the same strata.
     
  11. Geoffrey R. Stone

    Geoffrey R. Stone Regular Member

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    As a matter of fact, schools like Berkeley and those above it look very carefully at grades and standardized test scores for admissions. That's not to say that it's the only thing that will make you look good in their eyes, but it certainly is misleading to say it isn't at the top of their criteria. A clear passion (as expressed in your personal statement) for a particular field or career, with admirable beliefs and/or well-calculated reasoning, also helps too. It's really quite logical in that all of those factors define how hard you are willing to work (to varying degrees, depending on the factor in question). As always though, being well rounded is a benefit, but that doesn't mean that B students in high school get into Berkeley. The exception to that rule would be if you were a B student at an elite prep/private/boarding/magnet school. If you went to an average public school, you better have stellar grades and standardized test scores.

     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  12. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    China, cleverest country for only allowing international testing in its wealthiest and most influential cities and schools. Oh yeah!
     
  13. tony4562

    tony4562 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Chinese are certainly not the cleverest. Various IQ studies have confirmed that chinese average 100 in IQ which is generally on par with western european countries, but lower than korean or japanese averages which are around 105. But indians average 80 (established factum through numerous studies), clearly among the world's least intelligent people, only pure negros fare even worse (70 or less). According experts an average IQ of 90 is needed to industrialize the nation.

    In a way the future of india is written in the genes, there is nothing man (congress, BJP, Allah, Jesus or the hindu gods) can do about it.

    To this day there are only 2 kinds of countries that have managed to develope an advanced societies: majority caucasian based or majority east-asian based. Caucasians and east asians share one important trait: they are all pale-skinned people evolved in harsh climates of the ice ages.
     
  14. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    China was never an "advanced society", it merely aped other cultures since it's long history. India first now west. Guess it's in the genes.

    Monkey see, monkey do.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  15. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    The only way to ensure a beautiful future for our children is to educate them WELL. Our government knows that, and I am glad.
     
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  16. J20!

    J20! Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yes because the Chinese Empire that spanned centuries, making enormous advances in mathematics, literature and the sciences, was copying you... China has always been independent. As opposed to you. You've just described India. HA! Your BS knows no bounds.
     
  17. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    Anyways, one would be a fool to have a discussion with inherently racist people of China more so the CCP paid 50 centers. Nazis 2.0.
     
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  18. Geoffrey R. Stone

    Geoffrey R. Stone Regular Member

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    Hey, look! Indian racists that hate racists! Now I've seen everything! I guess it's only racism when other people do it to you and not when you do it to other people.
     
  19. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Thank you for your very informative, elaborate, well reasoned, and insightful comment, my dear Sir!
     
  20. Geoffrey R. Stone

    Geoffrey R. Stone Regular Member

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    I can't help it. I have to call people out for being hypocrites.

    I have to say, I peruse a lot of pro-Chinese forums, but I've never seen nearly as much racism on any of them as I have on this one forum alone. I'm not saying this to get under anyone's skin. I'm just sharing my observation.

    The racism is so bad here that some of the members here don't even think of foreign-born Chinese as citizens of the nation they were born, raised, and educated in. They can't see past the skin colour.

    I'm sure this goes without saying, but the most reasonable and least racist (often almost not at all racist) Indians I have ever known were all foreign-born, raised, and educated.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2012
  21. panduranghari

    panduranghari Senior Member Senior Member

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    I agree with the thought. But it does not translate into action. Most schools today are not for education. They mostly do brain washing. Its applicable in both China and India. It is even more applicable in the west as they invented the current system of education.

    Currently the schools promote only those type of students who may benefit the economy.
     

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