China syndrome: Why China is different from Middle East

[Ray]

and lastly it has nothing to do with my post.

Just For Laugh,

It has to do with your post.

You raised the 'indian' (red Indian) issue.

So, are the Cantonese real Huns or 'cooked barbarians' as they say in Chinese ethnology?

All Yues are descended from Han soldiers?

Wow!

Excellent way the Hans ensured that all signs of any Yue is wiped out!!

A neat genocide with velvet gloves, what?

Wiped away from history and from the face of the Earth!

Assimilated to remain just as a footnote in ethnology as 'cooked barbarians'!

I am confident that the Tibetans and Uighurs will go the same way!

 

[amoy]

Just give u a linguistic example: in my local dialect the word Man actually means "Tang Soldier" quite a residue of a history of conquest and assimilation. Get over that - either shaming or barbarian - Indians know better than us with all the traces that Babur, Akbar, Aurangzeb... Arabs, Persians, Mongols, Brits, and even Alexander the Great left behind, in Indian subcontinent, up to date

 

[kickok1975]

Ray:

I guess Just for laugh went to bed. It's almost 2:00am Hong Kong Time now.

 

[Ray]

Just give u a linguistic example: in my local dialect the word Man actually means "Tang Soldier" quite a residue of a history of conquest and assimilation. Get over that - either shaming or whatever - Indians know better than us with all the traces that Babur, Akbar, Aurangzeb... Arabs, Persians, Mongols, Brits, and even dated back to Alexander the Great left behind.

Yes, there have been invasions in India, but we have not lost our identities!

We are as a whole - Indians. But we are also equally proud to be what our sub nationalism is.

Then, there was no assimilation as was done by the Hans. We remained as we were.

In fact, unlike parts of China, India assimilated the invaders, including those of mixed British parentage; those who remained in India. Those who felt that they were 'British', quit India to go to other parts of globe where there was an Anglo Saxon majority.

In China, invaders imposed their identity on those they conquered. It was not so in India!

Ray:

I guess Just for laugh went to bed. It's almost 2:00am Hong Kong Time now.

He will have a head start over me in the morning!

 

[Ray]

Vietnamese vs Cantonese

[video]http://www.videofunder.com/view/4n36ognfg/vietnamese-vs-cantonese/[/video]

Comments on the Video:

VIDEO EXPLANTION The reason I made this video is because the majority of Vietnamese and Cantonese people get very offended when people mistaken the language for one another or think they are the same. Im making this video for people to hear both these languages

The general idea from some people that both these languages are closer in grammar, structure and pronouncation then compared to other Chinese dialects such as Hokkien, Hainanese Taishanese, Teochew, Hunanese, Mandarin, Hakka and other Asian languages such as Thai , Japanese , Lao, Mongolian , Khmer Tagalog ,Malay, Tibetan, Korean , Burmese, Hindi, Tamil, Indonesian and Hmong I dont think they sound nothing alike maybe a few words which is the grammer but the pronouncation is totally different

 

[JustForLaughs]

Of course!

How true!

The bloodline of Han is often to refer to the people who lived in the central-eastern part of China. All others are consider barbarians in the eyes of Han.

They were assimilated by 'shaming' the non Han to become Han including through marriages and through demographic changes to make the non Han into minorities.

What language do the Southern Chinese speak? Mandarin, right? Is that their original language?

That answers the issue!

have you lost your mind? there are too many dialects in China. it has nothing to do with ethnicity. Chinese bloodlines follow the fatherline. so again, i repeat, Cantonese were born from the Han soldier invasion of the Yue tribes.

 

[JustForLaughs]

Just for Laughs



What does this say?

What is this 'Liberate the Cantonese from the Han'?

As per you Hong Kong is of Han, so what is this all about?

Western propaganda, right?!


But then, of course, I know nothing and you know all!

long hair? are you kidding me?

 

[JustForLaughs]

Just For Laugh,

It has to do with your post.

You raised the 'indian' (red Indian) issue.

So, are the Cantonese real Huns or 'cooked barbarians' as they say in Chinese ethnology?

All Yues are descended from Han soldiers?

Wow!

Excellent way the Hans ensured that all signs of any Yue is wiped out!!

A neat genocide with velvet gloves, what?

Wiped away from history and from the face of the Earth!

Assimilated to remain just as a footnote in ethnology as 'cooked barbarians'!

I am confident that the Tibetans and Uighurs will go the same way!

do you have comprehension problems or something? do you even know who the Yue are? there is not single identity or tribe. its just a bunch of barbarians to the south. Cantonese beginnings was some of those who intermarried with Han soldier.

you know Viet also claim Yue? goodness.


btw: from my english you should be able to tell i study overseas

 

[JustForLaughs]

Vietnamese vs Cantonese

[video]http://www.videofunder.com/view/4n36ognfg/vietnamese-vs-cantonese/[/video]

Comments on the Video:

LMAO, ask any cantonese if they think viet sound like us. i dont even know what you are trying to do anymore. long hair? now this? are you trying to make me lose interest?

 

[Ray]

PRC:
From the article, it looks like local vernacular languages (dialects if you will), are not encouraged by the government. The results is:

In my travels around China, I constantly encounter the following types of scenes:

An apple seller in Chengdu, "I'm so ashamed of my vulgar native tongue."

A father in a Shanghai bookstore to his pre-school child, "Speak putonghua or people will think you're stupid."7

A taxi driver in Changsha, "Please forgive me; our local language sounds so horrible."

A female postal worker in Ürümchi, "I'm sorry. My Mandarin sounds too much like Uyghur."

A scholar from Manchuria (Dongbei [the Northeast]) upon hearing Peking teenagers conversing in their local tongue, "These boys are uneducated. They don't know how to talk properly."

Post 137 as posted by PMaitra
http://defenceforumindia.com/showthread.php?t=8918&p=241644#post241644
from the article
How to Forget Your Mother Tongue and Remember Your National Language: Victor H. Mair http://pinyin.info/readings/mair/taiwanese.html

 

[Ray]

do you have comprehension problems or something? do you even know who the Yue are? there is not single identity or tribe. its just a bunch of barbarians to the south. Cantonese beginnings was some of those who intermarried with Han soldier.

you know Viet also claim Yue? goodness.


btw: from my english you should be able to tell i study overseas

How would I know who are Yues?

You claim that they DO NOT EXIST!!

So all the Yues were married to Han soldiers?

In other world a velvet genocide was perpetuated?

What about the Yue men?

 

[JustForLaughs]

argh, why am i the one who has to correct this guy in everything.

OK, discrimination against dialect is not new. many rural dialect is perceived to be low class. in Hong Kong, hakka dialect is more red neck than cantonese. street/slang cantonese is low class compared to proper cantonese.

some things get blown out of proportion so you get that blip of pro cantonese protest. so pointless. there is an official language for a reason. if you dont make any effort at home to speak your native tongue dont complain about forgetting it! this is the same answer to 2nd generation immigrants in north america.

 

[JustForLaughs]

How would I know who are Yues?

You claim that they DO NOT EXIST!!

So all the Yues were married to Han soldiers?

In other world a velvet genocide was perpetuated?

What about the Yue men?

thats not what i said. who said ALL? what is ALL? didnt i already explain Yue was an ambiguous term at best? you can believe the viet if you want. they claim Yue descended. so theres your Yue. there are Yue references to language in cantonese.

but if you mean ethnic group with Han, we are already not Yue anymore. we were HALF, a very long time ago.

 

[Ray]

LMAO, ask any cantonese if they think viet sound like us. i dont even know what you are trying to do anymore. long hair? now this? are you trying to make me lose interest?

You are so consumed with yourself and your spread of disinformation and proving your loyalty to the CCP that you have missed this part of the disclaimer to the video:

VIDEO EXPLANTION The reason I made this video is because the majority of Vietnamese and Cantonese people get very offended when people mistaken the language for one another or think they are the same. Im making this video for people to hear both these languages

argh, why am i the one who has to correct this guy in everything.

OK, discrimination against dialect is not new. many rural dialect is perceived to be low class. in Hong Kong, hakka dialect is more red neck than cantonese. street/slang cantonese is low class compared to proper cantonese.

some things get blown out of proportion so you get that blip of pro cantonese protest. so pointless. there is an official language for a reason. if you dont make any effort at home to speak your native tongue dont complain about forgetting it! this is the same answer to 2nd generation immigrants in north america.

argh, why am i the one who has to correct this guy in everything.

Require reinforcement, right?

I do not ask for reinforcement.

But those who feel they are clones of Dr. Paul Joseph Göbbels, they sure require reinforcement.

So, from total denial and then it 'OK, discrimination against dialect is not new'!

It is now rural dialect is perceived to be low class. in Hong Kong, hakka dialect is more red neck than cantonese. street/slang cantonese is low class compared to proper cantonese.'
'
You take the cake!

I am amazed at the versatility that you all show in twisting issues to prove a point. There are no Yues - all are descendants of the Han soldiers.

Of course the YouTube protest is all false. It must have been shot in Hollywood, right? CIA plot, right?

didnt i already explain Yue was an ambiguous term at best?

Of course!

Totally ambiguous.

All false US propaganda!!!!

No longer Yue.

Too rural and vulgar, right?

Why claim to be descendants of those defeated, raped and pillaged. (Historically invaders did all that).

Pretend you are of the Conquering stock!!

but if you mean ethnic group with Han, we are already not Yue anymore. we were HALF, a very long time ago.

Oh so, it is now HALF.

I thought I was told by you that I know nothing.

And that all were Hans!

And Now it is Half and Half?

Pretzels are less of a twisting phenomenon that your posts!

 

[Ray]

The Western Zhou Dynasty established two capitals, Zongzhou 宗周 or Hao 鎬, and Chengzhou 成周 or Luo 雒. But the rulers stayed in the western regions where their people had lived for some centuries after coming from Bin 豳 (or 邠), a territory (in green) that was either located in the Fen River valley or in the west. The older capitals of the Zhou tribe were Qi 岐 and Feng 豐.

The main feudal states (zhuhou 諸侯) of the Western Zhou period are held in smaller bold letters. We find the many smaller states in the Yellow River plain, states like Zheng 鄭, Cao 曹, Song 宋 (the descendants of the House of Shang), Chen 陳, Cai 蔡, and Wei ("Wey") 衛, we have the traditionally highly esteemed state of Lu 魯(descendants of the Duke of Zhou) in the east; and finally we find the peripheral states of Yan 燕, Qi 齊 and Jin 晉 that were able to develop a larger territory than the others. The states of Qin 秦, Chu 楚, Wu 吳, and Yue 越 (in brackets) were still not enfeoffed as vassals of Zhou, they are rather seen as semi-barbarious tribes. The territories of the Shu 蜀 and Ba 巴 in modern Sichuan have their own ways of culture that are different of the "genuine" Chinese culture in the Yellow River basin.

Except these main states, we find dozens or hundreds of small vassal states (written in small black letters). They play no political role at that time, and most of them vanished during the wars of Eastern Zhou period. Some more of them can be found as states named in the Book of Songs, namely Shao 召, Bei 邶, Yong 鄘, Wei 魏, Tang 唐, Gui 檜 (here only the states not yet mentioned above). Important vassals of the founding time of Western Zhou were 管叔鮮 Shu Xian, Ruler of Guan; 成叔武 Shu Wu, Ruler of Cheng; 霍叔處 Shu Chu, Ruler of Huo; 杞東樓公 Donglou, Duke of Qi ("Qy"), a descendant of the House of Xia; 畢公高 Gao, Duke of Bi. Some of the smaller states should play an important role at the begin of the Warring States period, like Han 韓 ("Hann") and Wei 魏.

Around this center of culturally advanced states we find lots of Non-Chinese "barbarian" tribes and peoples, namely the Quanrong 犬戎 or Xianyun 玁狁 in the west, the Huaiyi 淮夷 or Xu 徐 and Yue 越 in the east, Di in the north 狄, and Pu 濮, Qiang 羌 and Man 蠻 in the southwest and south.

http://www.chinaknowledge.de/History/Zhou/zhou-map.html

All false, right?

Or is it western propaganda?

By the way they also had to add derogatory animal suffix to their names!

Lastly, it is not that there are no people elsewhere in the world who are not conversant with China, or its history and that only the Chinese know their history!

But what surprises is the somersault that some do, to be more loyal to the King than the King himself by attempting to airbrush history aimed to confuse, obfuscate and hide issue under the carpet!

This is why people are chary about accepting what emanates from Mainland China and its surrogates.

 

[amoy]

you know Viet also claim Yue? goodness

Yue = Viet just variation in pronunciation. In ancient China Yue loosely refers to many tribes in the South, from Shanghai along Yangtze down to Viet Nam today.

And Cantonese naturally shares quite similarities with Vietnamese in vocabulary. But the 2 vanarculars sound distinctively different since they parted long long ago.

Perhaps I carry some Yue blood too.

 

[pmaitra]

The Chinese, Yue Language

The Chinese, Yue Language


The code YUE was previously used for the language Yuracare.
This change was made to bring language codes into conformity with ISO-639-2)

Language Name:
Chinese, Yue

Alternate Name(s):
Baihua
Cantonese
Chinese Nung
Guangfu
Gwong Dung Waa
Ha Xa Phang
Hai Nam
Han
Hoa
Liem Chau
Lowland Nung
Minh Huong
Nung
Phúc Kién
Quang Dong
Samg Phang
Suòng Phóng
Trièu Chau
Yue
Yueh
Yuet Yue
Yueyu

Dialect Name(s):
Cantonese
Gaolei
Guinan
Qinlian
Siyi
Toishanese
Vancouver Cantonese
Yuehai

Alternate Dialect Name(s):
Gaoyang
Guangfu
Hoisan
Hong Kong Cantonese
Macau Cantonese
Schleiyip
Seiyap
Shatou
Shiqi
Taishan
Toisan
Wancheng

Language Code: yue (Former code: YUH)
Status: Living
Family: Sino-Tibetan
Subgroup: Chinese
Subgrouping Code: STA

Read More: http://linguistlist.org/forms/langs/LLDescription.cfm?code=yue

 

[Ray]

After putting the imperial household in order and increasing state revenues and state powers, Wu Di began in 111 BC an ambitious programme of new conquests.

He incorporated the Yue of Fujian and Guangzhou areas which has broken away after the fall of the Qin Dynasty. The Yue Kingdom included the related people and culture of coastal Annam and Tonkin in what is now northern Vietnam beginning the long struggle of the Vietnamese to reassert and maintain their separate identity.

Link

 

[badguy2000]

Badguy:
You are a supporter of current ...,but CCP leaders don't believe the current system will work. That's the problem.That's why many of them steal the money from the country and flee away...

as I know, the dirty money from in Swiss banks from India are more than any other country. And the fat cats in Wall street needn't hide their money in Swiss banks at all.
So, economical criminal are not limited to China,but is everywhere on the Earth.
It is naive to believe that "democracy" can get rid of economic crimes naturally.

The differences here are :

1. "democracy" west countries are the paradise and heaven not only for "fat cats" in Wall Street,but also for all corrupted officials and their dirty money all over the world.
Dirty dirty money of CCP corrupted officals can be hidden in "democracy" west countries much more easily than in "autucray" China.
Sometimes, corrupted CCP officals needn't hide their dirty money at all and live a cozy life inlike "fat cats" in Wall street .

2.corrupted CCP officals are punished much more harshly in "autocracy" CHina than "west democracy countries".

corrupted officals can be executed for economic crimes but they can not be in "democracy" west countries.

 

[JustForLaughs]

You are so consumed with yourself and your spread of disinformation and proving your loyalty to the CCP that you have missed this part of the disclaimer to the video:

VIDEO EXPLANTION The reason I made this video is because the majority of Vietnamese and Cantonese people get very offended when people mistaken the language for one another or think they are the same. Im making this video for people to hear both these languages





Require reinforcement, right?

I do not ask for reinforcement.

But those who feel they are clones of Dr. Paul Joseph Göbbels, they sure require reinforcement.

So, from total denial and then it 'OK, discrimination against dialect is not new'!

It is now rural dialect is perceived to be low class. in Hong Kong, hakka dialect is more red neck than cantonese. street/slang cantonese is low class compared to proper cantonese.'
'
You take the cake!

I am amazed at the versatility that you all show in twisting issues to prove a point. There are no Yues - all are descendants of the Han soldiers.

Of course the YouTube protest is all false. It must have been shot in Hollywood, right? CIA plot, right?



Of course!

Totally ambiguous.

All false US propaganda!!!!

No longer Yue.

Too rural and vulgar, right?

Why claim to be descendants of those defeated, raped and pillaged. (Historically invaders did all that).

Pretend you are of the Conquering stock!!




Oh so, it is now HALF.

I thought I was told by you that I know nothing.

And that all were Hans!

And Now it is Half and Half?

Pretzels are less of a twisting phenomenon that your posts!

if you are not aware of dialect discrimination it is your problem. but dont lie and pretend this kind of thing was created because of CCP.

i dont know how many times i have to repeat such simple history so you can understand.

Cantonese were created when han soldier invade the yue and intermarry. that means half. BACK THEN. as in first kids they had. duh. any blood connection to yue is ridiculously diluted now. only some reference in terms of language are left.

again, Han follows the father line, so of course we are Han.

you spend all your time inventing claims i made and keep ignoring how many times i explain very carefully the history so you can understand. if you are still confused, re read above.