China sweeps aside civilians in rush for hydropower

ice berg

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Now don't get sore about questions. The tone of your reply sounds like you are irritated with the question - especially where you ask whether I have heard about urbanization. That is not an intelligent answer - and I don't mind if you don't have an answer - but a non answer that sounds like a cop out made by an ignorant person is useless. No need to get angry. If you don't know just say so. It is not shameful to not know everything on earth.
Well, duh it was not an intelligent question. What happends is urbanization, nothing more, nothing less. What unique is the scale consider the chinese population size.
Yes I have heard of urbanization.

Let me state my question more clearly.

Urbanization in the USA did not occur due to government forced/sponsored migration of people to urban areas. Cities had industries and jobs and the migration was economic in the sense that people went for the jobs and living until the US achieved about 80:20 Urban:Rural ratio

Urbanization is an unavoidable phenomenon, but it is not forced by governments. It is "people led". In India rural people migrate to the cities for economic reasons - and end up living in slums and temporary shacks. The government is not forcing them to come, but the government is not stopping them either. India has changed from 20:60 Urban-Rural ratio in the 1960s to about 35:65 now. I am not sure that the USA's 80:20 ratio is good for India

Urbanization brings with it some social issues including shortage of clean water supply, garbage disposal, sewage treatment and disposal, pubic transport overcrowding, loss of green cover, loss of natural water bodies, ground water level reduction and groundwater pollution and air pollution.

What are Chinese authorities doing to cope with these issues? Why is there forced urbanization despite the fact that urbanization and the creation concrete megacities per se is not a proven or great solution for increasing environmental, water and energy issues?
Where is the forced urbanization that you are talking about? You said yourself that:
It is "people led". In India rural people migrate to the cities for economic reasons - and end up living in slums and temporary shacks. The government is not forcing them to come, but the government is not stopping them either.

That is no different for China. I have already give you the name of the book who explains those things in a more academic way. Instead of reading it you are repeating the same loaded question again. Loaded because you claimed the urbanization is forced. You never provided a source for your claims. How you expect an intelligent answer when you ask loaded question with no reference? Seriously?
There is a big difference between encourage urbanization and forcing urbanization. From your post it is quite clear that you are not able to distinguish between those two.

Food for thought you cant be bothered to read my reference:
Urbanising China: A nation of city slickers | The Economist

FOR a nation whose culture and society have been shaped over millennia by its rice-, millet- and wheat-farming traditions, and whose ruling Communist Party rose to power in 1949 by mobilising a put-upon peasantry and encircling the cities, China has just passed a remarkable milestone. By the end of 2011, according to the National Bureau of Statistics, more than half of China's 1.35 billion people were living in cities.Demographers had seen this moment coming. The 2010 census showed the differential between town and country to be within a mere few tenths of a percentage point. And yet it is still a remarkable turnaround. In 1980 fewer than a fifth of Chinese lived in cities, a smaller urban proportion than in India or Indonesia. Over the next ten years the government remained wary of free movement, even as it made its peace with free enterprise. Touting a policy of "leaving the land but not the villages, entering the factories but not cities", it sought industrialisation without urbanisation, only to discover that it could not have one without the otherChina is not alone in its march towards urbanisation, but it is keen to avoid some of the pitfalls encountered by other urbanising places such as India, Brazil and Africa. Chief among these is the slide of megacities into megaslums. It helps that China's urban influx has not only been into existing cities, but also into newly built ones.
 

Ray

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City chickens and country eggs

Aug 4th 2013



AS IT adjusts to the end of its run of sustained, double-digit rates of annual economic growth, China is staking a great deal on the idea that growth and urbanisation are linked. It has made continued urbanisation a pillar of the government's long-term strategy for rebalancing. But policymakers who put so many of their hopeful eggs in this basket must also consider a vexing chicken-and-egg question: is it urbanisation that causes growth, or is it the other way round? In a paper released in July, two scholars argue that "the direction of causality likely runs from growth to urbanisaton, rather than vice versa."

There are caveats galore about their findings, especially as they relate to China. The scholars, Anett Hofmann of the London School of Economics and Guanghua Wan of the Asian Development Bank, seek not only to determine the impact of economic growth on urbanisation, but also that of industrialisation and education. And, while they seek and find indications that growth causes urbanisation, they do not themselves investigate the reverse sort of causality. They leave off noting instead that "attempts to identify a causal effect of urbanisation on growth have so far been unsuccessful" [emphasis theirs].

More relevant still is the fact that China is not betting the farm, as it were, on urbanisation. True, some influential figures have hinted at the belief that it might be sufficient as a spur to future growth. For instance Zhang Liqun, of the State Council's Development Research Centre, recently said that "the growth momentum gained from the processes of industrialisation and urbanisation alone will support the country's steady growth."

But the senior leader most closely identified with the idea is the current prime minister, Li Keqiang, and he has outlined a more nuanced position. Elaborating his position in an article published in May in a theoretical journal of the Communist Party, Qiu Shi (here in Chinese), Mr Li wrote that "China is experiencing exponential urban growth which will spur investment and consumption and play a significant role in expanding domestic demand."

His formulation involves more than a simple "urbanisation-causes-growth" assumption. Under China's current circumstances, there is plenty of reason to believe he is onto something. Rather than counting on urbanisation to boost growth directly, through increased production or higher efficiency say, the hope is that it will raise the economy's consumption share—a key goal of China's overall restructuring effort.

In doing the sums for his article, Mr Li started with data showing that in 2010 China's urban residents spent 3.6 times more per capita than did their country cousins. He concluded that every rural resident who moves to a city will increase consumption by an average of 10,000 yuan ($1,631). Multiplying by the 10m rural residents he expects might be absorbed into cities in a single year, he predicted that "this will, in turn, translate into consumption totalling more than 100 billion yuan and correspondingly create more investment opportunities."

With or without the government's encouragement, the process of urbanisation has been moving at great speed. At the end of 2011, China crossed an important threshold when, for the first time in history, its city-dwellers became the majority. In 1980 they accounted for only one fifth of the population.

And while policy will have an effect on the pace, robust urbanisation will almost certainly continue no matter what the government does. Even scholars who have been supportive of China's drive for urbanisation are wary of its pace. In a paper from 2005 titled "Are Chinese cities too small?" Chun-Chung Au and J. Vernon Henderson, of Brown University in America, conclude that many of China's cities were "significantly undersized" and that cost the economy in terms of both productivity and worker income. However they were careful to qualify that view: "the recommendation here is not to suddenly increase the sizes of all cities by enormous magnitudes overnight." Whether it is truly the chicken or the egg that comes first, eggs must always be placed in the basket with care.

Urbanisation and growth: City chickens and country eggs | The Economist

This is the fallout of urbanisation in China.








https://www.google.co.in/search?q=I...v&sa=X&ei=61B6UvSDOIaMrQfxjoDgCA&ved=0CCsQsAQ

In India it is slums and in China, it is the toilet!

I reckon that is the irony of progress and growth!
 
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Ray

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Industrialisation is excellent, but the social cost has to be understood.

Here is how unthought through industrialisation affects society.

The Migrant Worker in China - Hukou

Though these migrant workers have effectively relocated to areas where there are jobs, Chinese social policy has prevented them from fully establishing themselves there.

The World's Largest Migration

Every year, as China celebrates its New Year (or Spring Festival, as it's been called since the 20th century), hundreds of millions of Chinese citizens take part in the world's largest annual migration.



n 2011, the Chinese government estimated that about half of China's population of 1.3 billion people, 700 million (more than twice the population of the entire United States), would travel home between January 19 and February 27, taking a total of 2.85 billion passenger trips on trains, planes, boats and buses. An average of 2,265 trains per day were scheduled to be in service, including 300 extra trains added to help carry the record 230 million passengers anticipated over the peak period. Still, ticket shortages were expected. Many of the passengers in this annual pilgrimage are Chinese migrant workers traveling from coastal industrial centers to the interior countryside. Many of them travel home only once a year to visit family they have left behind.

The migration of the peasant work force started in the early 1980s, when the country first opened its economy. The influx of foreign investment created a soaring demand for labor, and millions were lured out of the undeveloped, western farmland to work in factory towns in the southern coastal regions. Because of the size of China (slightly smaller than the United States) and the quality of the transportation available, trips from these coastal regions to the countryside can take many days to complete.

While China has made efforts to accommodate the mass migration, including adding new high-speed rail lines, officials say it will be another five years before China's rapidly expanding rail network will be able to meet demand. Meanwhile, China has been preparing for a massive population shift from the countryside to cities in the next 25 years or so by rapidly building housing and amenities in urban centers.

China has set a goal to urbanize half of its population of 1.3 billion by 2020, and 70 percent by 2050.

The Migrant Worker in China

People born after 1980 account for about 60 percent of China's 240 million migrant workers, and their changing habits and aspirations will help determine the development of the country's manufacturing sector and broader economy.


Since 1978, when China implemented economic reforms intended to liberalize and boost the economy, the country has seen a rapid, massive urbanization. Not only have populations moved from the countryside to urban areas in unprecedented numbers (the proportion of China's urban population increased from 18 percent in 1978 to 43.9 percent in 2006), but the number of cities themselves skyrocketed, more than tripling from 191 in 1978 to 661 in 2005, as industrial centers were erected and expanded to meet global demand for Chinese-made goods. It is expected that an additional 345 million people in China will move from rural to urban areas in the next 25 years — a mass migration larger and faster than any in history.

Seven cities and provinces have absorbed the majority of the migrant workers, who now make up more than one third of the population in cities such as Beijing and Zhejiang. Shenzhen, the town where Qin is bartending at the end of the film, has grown from a small town to a major metropolis in the past three decades; as of 2007, 12 million of the city's total population of 14 million were migrants.

As the population urbanizes, the gap between rural and urban wages widens, making the move to city centers more and more appealing. In their hometowns, rural workers hardly make enough to get by; by 2006, the average urban worker earned 3.27 times as much as his rural counterpart.

People born after 1980 account for about 60 percent of China's 240 million migrant workers, and their changing habits and aspirations will help determine the development of the country's manufacturing sector and broader economy.

Young Chinese migrant workers earn an average 1,747.87 Chinese yuan ($277) a month, about half the average urban salary, but have high expectations for personal development, according to a survey by the All-China Federation of Trade Unions.

That survey also found that young migrant workers are three times as likely to change jobs as their parents. They also have far less experience in farming than their parents, an indication that they are likely to remain in urban areas even if they cannot obtain the residency permits required to access the full range of social benefits.

As a way of accommodating this movement, the trade union federation recommended that the government allow at least 4 million young migrant workers to settle permanently in cities every year.

The Migrant Worker in China - Hukou

Though these migrant workers have effectively relocated to areas where there are jobs, Chinese social policy has prevented them from fully establishing themselves there.


In 1958, China created a household registration system, called hukou, designed to aid the distribution of welfare and resources, control migration and keep watch on criminal activity. Each citizen is determined to live in either a rural or urban household, or hukou, based on his or her place of residence. Local governments are responsible for providing services such as education, housing and medical care to the constituents within their districts, and urban residents are given additional benefits in the form of food rations and job allocations. To discourage migration between districts, residents are not allowed to work or live outside their hukous without approval from authorities. If they do, they forfeit all rights and benefits, including education and medical care. Citizens are required to register their permanent and even temporary locations with police, and in some cases rural registrants may be arrested just for entering cities.

Despite the massive migrations within China in the past three decades, the hukou system persists today, making it nearly impossible for migrants to bring their families with them. Hukou reform has become a crucial political issue, but many migrant workers lack the education, motivation or political voice to fight for their rights.

Over the years there have been several efforts to reform or relax the hukou system, but widespread reform has yet to be enacted. One program proposed introducing temporary and visiting statuses that would allow some access to social services. One tried to grant permanent residency to migrant workers who had stable work, but also required applicants to own their own apartments — a stipulation that ruled out most struggling workers.

In some provinces, workers can apply for temporary residency status that allows them to collect some benefits, or at least grants them access to services for pay, but the application process is usually complicated, and the fees required to register discourage many from applying. At one time, workers who had not registered as temporary residents could be barred from getting any job or from renting property, but those restrictions were abolished in 2003.

Migrant workers have seen some improvement in conditions in recent years, at least on paper. Reform enacted in 2003 requires employers to sign labor contracts with workers, pay them on time and compensate them for termination of employment. In response to those reforms, the All-China Federation of Trade Unions encouraged migrant workers to join local unions, and by 2008, half of them, or 62 million, had. In 2007, the All-China Federation of Trade Unions announced that it had helped more than 30.3 million migrant workers get home for the Chinese New Year using special trains and buses and group ticket purchases, secured 1.73 billion yuan in back wages for 2.65 million workers and provided financial assistance for more than 80,000 workers to allow their children to go to school.

The Migrant Worker in China - Working Conditions

According to a survey by the National Bureau of Statistics of China, the average monthly income for a migrant worker in 2004 was 780 yuan, just over half the national urban average of 1,350 yuan.


In 2008, another study showed a more favorable comparison: 850 renminbi (RMB) per month for migrant workers, as compared to 1,050 RMB per month for urban workers. The exchange rate at the time of USD $1 = 8 RMB, however, shows how little both types of worker make by U.S. standards. Furthermore, these workers were required to work long hours; they averaged 11 hours a day, 26 days a month. A 2008 study showed that 28 percent worked more than 12 hours a day, and 81 percent worked six or seven days a week.) One study of three central provinces found that migrants worked 50 percent more hours than native urban workers, but earned less than 60 percent of native urban workers' average salaries, making their hourly wages about one quarter those of urban residents. Also, migrant workers reported frequent delays and arbitrary decreases in pay.

Employers are not required to provide certain benefits for migrant workers, who have also forfeited government benefits. A 2008 study showed only 19 percent of migrant workers had some form of health insurance and 26 percent were entitled to limited sick pay, compared to 68 percent and 66 percent, respectively, for urban workers. Of those migrants who do receive sick pay, only 15 percent receive sick pay that matches base pay. Because medical treatment is drastically more expensive in urban areas than in rural ones, migrant workers often return home when forced to seek medical attention (a practice that can skew statistics on the health of migrant worker populations, making them seem healthier than they are).

Confucian Values

Eastern and Western scholars analyzing China's meteoric economic rise in the past thirty years — and its previous economic sluggishness — have often focused on the relationship between capitalism and traditional Confucian values.


Confucianism is a philosophy attributed to the philosopher Confucius and has long been a chief cultural influence in China. Confucianism places weight on familial relationships and respect for elders and parents, a virtue known as "filial piety" (or "devotion to family"). In addition to creating harmony in the family, this virtue is considered essential in preparing children for respectful conduct in everyday life.

During the 1950s and 1960s, while Western nations were establishing themselves as world superpowers, some scholars attributed China's comparative failure to develop its economy to Confucianism. German political economist Max Weber believed that capitalism was influenced by religious ideas and that the values integral to Confucianism were incompatible with real economic performance or growth. Chinese scholar Chi Kong Lai writes extensively on the government officials in China who viewed the selfless ideals of Confucianism as incompatible with the selfishness that it took to succeed in business. Confucius is quoted saying, "If seeking wealth were a decent pursuit, I too would seek it, even if I had to work as a janitor. As it is, I'd rather follow my inclinations."

Following China's economic liberalization in 1978, many scholars and analysts in both the East and West began to emphasize Confucianism's values of xin (trustfulness), cheng (sincerity), ren (humaneness), and zhong (loyalty) — qualities attractive in a business person – as well as pragmatism, harmony, reverence for family, acceptance of hierarchical social structures, concern with shame and saving face. Suddenly Confucianism was seen by some as not a barrier to success, but as a force behind it.

More pressing today, however, are the challenges faced by working families divided by migration. In a country where blood ties are paramount, the impediments that long-distance relationships can impose on families are seen as particularly insidious. Statistics show that although 56 percent of Chinese migrant workers are married, most of those couples are split between home and work so that one person can take care of family, and consequently see each other only once a year. In 2009, some 2.3 million couples divorced in China, an increase of 8.8 percent over the previous year, for a seventh consecutive year of increase. Among divorcing rural couples, 50 to 80 percent are estimated to include one migrant worker. Of younger migrant workers — those born after the 1980s — 80 percent are unmarried, and more than 70 percent list loneliness as their principal burden.

Filmmaker Lixin Fan says, It's true that the Confucian virtue of filial piety has long played a big role in Chinese lives. Being away from one's family was never encouraged by traditional values. Now the changing society has shifted toward a more pragmatic judgment and the bettering of one's material life. However, this doesn't necessarily mean that the Chinese are losing their traditional values completely. For example, in the film, the parents worked away from home but they sent all their savings to their parents and kids. I think that although the way of life has transformed along with economic changes, deeper values still remain."

China's Economy

With a booming economy, rising international status and power and one-fifth of the world's population, China is one of the world's major forces.


In the past couple of years, China has surpassed Japan to become the world's third largest economy after the European Union and the United States. It also surpassed Germany and the United States to become the world's second largest exporter, trailing only the European Union. China produces and uses more electricity than any other nation, has spent billions on contracts with U.S. allies, is investing heavily in Africa and now conducts more trade with key U.S. partners Japan and Brazil than the United States does. However, a telephone survey of 1,400 urban Chinese residents conducted in 2010 by the Global Times newspaper found that only 15.5 percent of respondents saw their country as a "global power."

Opposing voices like that of Hu Ping, the chief editor of Beijing Spring, a pro-human rights and democracy journal, argue against China's potential "superpower" status and point to the country's uneven standard of living, controversial politics and persistent human-rights violations, as well as the lack of global Chinese brands, as evidence.

China has long been considered a secondary player because it built its wealth not through its own brands but by providing for major companies from the United States, European Union, Japan and elsewhere — more than three-fifths of China's overall exports and nearly all its high-tech exports are made by foreign companies. Will Hutton, British political analyst and author of The Writing on the Wall: Why We Must Embrace China as a Partner or Face It as an Enemy, says that China remains, in essence, a subcontractor to the West.

For their part, Chinese business leaders are taking advantage of the global recession and their own cash wealth by expanding internationally and investing in Western concerns. In 2009, the China Market Research Group — a strategic market intelligence firm headquartered in Shanghai — interviewed 500 senior executives at 100 Chinese companies in 10 industries. Seventy percent of them said they specifically aimed to tap into the United States and Western Europe during the downturn.

While China has the third largest gross domestic product in the world as a country, its per capita gross domestic product still ranks 126th, at $7,600 annually, according to the CIA. (The United States, at $47,200, ranks 11th.) Much of the country still feels under-developed: Hundreds of millions of rural Chinese lack reliably safe drinking water, corruption is widespread and migrant workers make up one quarter of the workforce. Furthermore, some analysts argue that the national gross domestic product figure may be buoyed by overbuilding of real estate that is unaffordable to most Chinese and that could eventually prompt a massive housing market crash.

'Last Train Home' in Context: China's Economy | Last Train Home | POV | PBS

++++++++++++++++++++++

There are the pluses and the minuses.

It is those who are affected who can tell about the joys, tears and sorrows.
 

bennedose

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How you expect an intelligent answer when you ask loaded question with no reference?
Thank you for admitting that your reply was not intelligent.

Where is the forced urbanization that you are talking about?
You could have asked for references.

Reference 1:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/16/w...ting-moving-250-million-into-cities.html?_r=0
China is pushing ahead with a sweeping plan to move 250 million rural residents into newly constructed towns and cities over the next dozen years — a transformative event that could set off a new wave of growth or saddle the country with problems for generations to come.

The government, often by fiat, is replacing small rural homes with high-rises, paving over vast swaths of farmland and drastically altering the lives of rural dwellers.
Reference 2
"Forced-urbanization" and the Land-lost Peasants: A Perspective from the Right to Free Exit
The emergence of growing land-losing peasants is becoming a serious problem at a time when China is undergoing rapid urbanization. Because of China current land tenure system, land taking policy, and hukou system, peasants have lost four types of rights to free exit. The land-losing peasants, after becoming landless, are forced to live in urban areas, resulting in so-called "forced-urbanization". This paper shows that "forced-urbanization" leads to inefficient urbanization and social conflicts. These problems can further deteriorate unless the exit rights are given back to peasants so that China can follow the path of market-oriented urbanization meanwhile elevate peasants' human capital.
Reference 3
China's forced urbanization puts land before people - China.org.cn
China's forced urbanization puts land before people

China is on the brink of a new wave of urbanization that has already gathered enormous political and economic momentum. Urban-rural integration or, to borrow the more official term, the overall planning of urban and rural development, is high on the policy agenda of China's ruling elite. The policy shift is quite natural as it is a continuation of previous efforts to solve the "three problems" of agriculture, rural areas and farmers. As the "three problems" became more serious, the Chinese government formulated a series of policies and measures, the latest being "building a new socialist countryside". But none of them have achieved the desired effect. Against this background, more and more people are returning to their former belief that only industrialization and urbanization can solve the challenges that China faces. Global trends also point in that direction.
Reference 4:
What Looms Behind China's Growing Urbanization | Society | China | Epoch Times
Urbanization in mainland China is not a natural growth process, but a forced one, and some of the statistics are fabricated and give a distorted picture of the new city dwellers and their future prospects, according to some analysts.
Reference 5. This is a video in Chinese on a channel called "China forbidden News"
China's Doomsday Book: Forced Urbanization of Farmers - YouTube
 

bennedose

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There is a big difference between encourage urbanization and forcing urbanization. From your post it is quite clear that you are not able to distinguish between those two.

Food for thought you cant be bothered to read my reference:
Urbanising China: A nation of city slickers | The Economist

FOR a nation whose culture and society have been shaped over millennia by its rice-, millet- and wheat-farming traditions, and whose ruling Communist Party rose to power in 1949 by mobilising a put-upon peasantry and encircling the cities, China has just passed a remarkable milestone. By the end of 2011, according to the National Bureau of Statistics, more than half of China's 1.35 billion people were living in cities.Demographers had seen this moment coming. The 2010 census showed the differential between town and country to be within a mere few tenths of a percentage point. And yet it is still a remarkable turnaround. In 1980 fewer than a fifth of Chinese lived in cities, a smaller urban proportion than in India or Indonesia. Over the next ten years the government remained wary of free movement, even as it made its peace with free enterprise. Touting a policy of "leaving the land but not the villages, entering the factories but not cities", it sought industrialisation without urbanisation, only to discover that it could not have one without the otherChina is not alone in its march towards urbanisation, but it is keen to avoid some of the pitfalls encountered by other urbanising places such as India, Brazil and Africa. Chief among these is the slide of megacities into megaslums. It helps that China's urban influx has not only been into existing cities, but also into newly built ones.

When urbanization is voluntary (not forced) people move into cities for jobs and often do not find accommodation. In China people are being pulled out from rural areas and being forced into pre-built accommodation simply to call it "urbanization".

I think the Chinese commie politburo is making a huge mistake. More beer. More popcorn.
 

ice berg

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Thank you for admitting that your reply was not intelligent.

The level of my answer depends on the questions asked.
You could have asked for references.

Reference 1:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/16/w...ting-moving-250-million-into-cities.html?_r=0

You need to read more than a title like most of your countrymen. The article says clearly:
The government has been pledging a comprehensive urbanization plan for more than two years now. It was originally to have been presented at the National People's Congress in March, but various concerns delayed that, according to people close to the government. Some of them include the challenge of financing the effort, of coordinating among the various ministries and of balancing the rights of farmers, whose land has increasingly been taken forcibly for urban projects.
These worries delayed a high-level conference to formalize the plan this month. The plan has now been delayed until the fall, government advisers say. Central leaders are said to be concerned that spending will lead to inflation and bad debt.
Reference 2
"Forced-urbanization" and the Land-lost Peasants: A Perspective from the Right to Free Exit
Appreciate if you can point out the scale of forced urbanization. It says clearly :

This paper shows that "forced-urbanization" leads to inefficient urbanization and social conflicts. Notice it does not say that urbanization =forced.
Negative side effects of urbanization and to claim that urbanization itself is forced is two different thing.
Reference 3
China's forced urbanization puts land before people - China.org.cn

same reply as above.
Reference 4:
Now now Epoch times is not a valid source.
Reference 5. This is a video in Chinese on a channel called "China forbidden News"
China's Doomsday Book: Forced Urbanization of Farmers - YouTube
See same reply as earlier.

Btw read this:
http://www.oecd.org/regional/regional-policy/42607972.pdf
This is from OECD. Unlike you, I provide better sources. Enjoy.
 
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ice berg

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When urbanization is voluntary (not forced) people move into cities for jobs and often do not find accommodation. In China people are being pulled out from rural areas and being forced into pre-built accommodation simply to call it "urbanization".

I think the Chinese commie politburo is making a huge mistake. More beer. More popcorn.
You mean CCP put guns at every migrants head and forcing them into pre-build accomodations?
Hehehe. You can force people to the city. How do you prevent them leaving if they want to?

People going to the city for work and a better future. That is true across the globe since the industrial age.
There will always be negative side of urbanization. You , however are the only one who claims that the whole urbanization is forced. Which is pure bollocks.
 

W.G.Ewald

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You mean CCP put guns at every migrants head and forcing them into pre-build accomodations?
Hehehe. You can force people to the city. How do you prevent them leaving if they want to?

People going to the city for work and a better future. That is true across the globe since the industrial age.
There will always be negative side of urbanization. You , however are the only one who claims that the whole urbanization is forced. Which is pure bollocks.
It does not seem believable that CCP does not control population movement in PRC to a significant extent.
 

W.G.Ewald

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The OECD report was posted in #66.

Read it.
Please point out the section relevant to the question of whether or not the government of China can tell Chinese people where to live. It can tell people how many children they can have, correct? So it seems logical it can tell people where to live.
 

bennedose

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Btw read this:
http://www.oecd.org/regional/regional-policy/42607972.pdf
This is from OECD. Unlike you, I provide better sources. Enjoy.

This is indeed a good source. I now have a better understanding of what is happening in China. I have had an initial and brief read through this 70 page pdf and several things stand out.

The first is the communist party's "control" over every human.

China has a permit system in which every Chinese gets a permit of "hukou" which permanently brands him at birth as urban or rural
ref pages 7-8
According to these regulations, all citizens of China are assigned an agricultural or non-agricultural
residency designation at birth, based on that held by parents. This residency registration (hukou) is essentially permanent. Originally
, residents with non-agricultural hukou were granted ration cards for a wide range of basic foodstuffs and commodities, and
were entitled to employment in cities, largely with State Owned Enterprises (SOEs) or government agen
cies that provided full housing, healthcare, and education services. Under this two-tier management system, agricultural-registered residents were not entitled to "urban" benefits as they were assumed to be agricultural workers, and hence entitled to farm
collectively owned land as the basis of their livelihoods.
Due to an economic downturn in the 1960s which the government could not support the city dweller the Chicom government developed an anti-urbanization policy where city residents were reverted to agricultural hukou where they did not get benefits! (page 8) - goal post moved by the government! :lol:

Later as the economy developed, the Chicom's realised that an anti-urbanization policy was no good - so the policy has now changed to "encourage" urbanization

From page 42:
Current public policy in China is to promote urbanisation in all towns (especially county seats) and
small cities regardless of their competitiveness and economic sustainability. From the central government's
perspective, it cannot be perceived to be picking winners. This is also true at the municipal level, but local
governments often go one step further and build new towns as special districts so as not to favour one town
over another, thereby adding to spatial dispersion that undermines urbanisation economies. This
undifferentiated policy avoids difficult decisions and could, over time, actually undermine the urbanisation
process.
Because bigger cities and more industrialization means more money, smaller city administrations are encouraged to "annexe" surrounding areas. It is these annexed areas that may contain agricultural hukou holder who suddenly become part of a city
From box 7 page 56

The annexation of surrounding counties and statutory towns by core municipal metropolitan regions has
increased in coastal China (especially the Yangtze River Delta region and the Pearl River Delta region) since 2000.
This administrative restructuring is the model viewed most favorably by the government, probably because it reduces
the costs associated with the negotiation and bargaining process between the municipality and neighboring towns or
counties

But the confusion comes from this agriculrural versus non agriculrural hukou
From page 63
Rural migrants in cities lack affordable access to adequate housing,
safe and secure employment, and are rarely included in any formalised social welfare system.
So China's "forced urbanization" is true.
 

bennedose

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Hehehe. You can force people to the city. How do you prevent them leaving if they want to?
.
You have not read your 70 page pdf yourself.

Annexation and hukou.

A metropolitan area annexes surrounding rural land, pays unfair compensation and uses the land for industry, roads or housing. The residents there, who had agricultural hukou get no city benefits but are forced to live in the city. They no longer have any land to "go back" to.

Since China does not have a free press and individuals cannot fight the powerful party, we hear about these things only from unofficial sources, and once in a while from a protest that goes out of hand.
 

Ray

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Please point out the section relevant to the question of whether or not the government of China can tell Chinese people where to live. It can tell people how many children they can have, correct? So it seems logical it can tell people where to live.
Check the Hukou system and the Danwei system and you will get the answer.
 

Compersion

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Adding little bit to the discussion:

Like the internal passports of the Soviet Union, the hukou system allowed the state to provide preferential treatment to industrial workers and intelligentsia who would be more likely to protest and even revolt during periods of unrest. The Hukou system has been justified by some scholars as increasing the stability of China by better monitoring of "targeted persons", people who are politically dubious by the Party's standards.

Administration regulations issued in 1982 known as "custody and repatriation" authorized police to detain people, and "repatriate" them to their permanent residency location. Economic reforms also created pressures to encourage migration from the interior to the coast.

There has been recognition that hukou is an impediment to economic development. China's accession to the World Trade Organization has forced it to allow reformation to hukou in order to liberate the movement of labor for the benefit of the economy.

The present hukou system remains active and continues to contribute to China's rural and urban disparity. On March 2008, over 30 leading intellectuals had wrote open letter to Government, asking to "immediate abolition of the rural-urban dual hukou system." In 2008-09, web posted essays remarked hukou system as "caste system" of China, and "China a great country of discrimination."

Hukou system - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Can anyone tell with authority what is the value of a Shanghai and Beijing City Hukou permit.

Also what is the value of a Taiwan, Macua, Hong Kong (Citizenship). Are people from Taiwan, Macau, Hong Kong asked to apply for Hukuo permits. Can PRC citizens travel freely into Taiwan, Macau and Hong Kong do they need a Hukou permit.

Is this ubranisation that one speaks by PRC being done to "smaller" cities and not major cities like Beijing and Shanghai.

Is this a way to placate the rural people into thinking they have upgraded themselves by providing Hukou permits in smaller cities and regions.

The dream of working and living in Beijing and Shanghai is only for certain people. The best treated Chinese in PRC are still the people from Taiwan and Hong Kong, Macau next follows overseas Chinese from American and UK and after that the PRC citizens in big cities and after that PRC citizens in small cities and after that PRC citizens in villages. It is like a caste system.

Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau are the top level of Hukua that is beyond the reach of majority of PRC people. Yet the government claims the regions to be "One Country"

The communist party was built on the support of the countryside. How times have change.

related to the thread is the below news item:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...tyle-suburbia-heralds-environmental-pain.html

Take away the haze of air pollution and Waterfront Corso Mansions near Tianjin might seem like an urban idyll for China's growing population of city dwellers.

Inside a gated compound, residential towers and houses overlook a lake and manicured gardens. What's missing from the neighborhood are shops and amenities, turning the block and hundreds like it in the suburb of Meijiang into a giant dormitory for Tianjin, 40 minutes away by car.

"There's no hospital nearby, no hair salon, hardly any restaurants," said Wang Bo, 62, who lives with his daughter's family in the complex and ferries his wife to work each day. "I have to drive 20 minutes just to buy vegetables."
This is one of China's superblocks, developments that are storing up a social, energy and environmental crisis by forcing millions of new urban middle-class residents to drive everywhere. As China's ruling Communist Party convenes this week to debate an economic blueprint for the future, the Soviet-inspired urban plan pits municipal governments that rely on the land sales for a fifth of their revenue against Premier Li Keqiang, who is trying to balance urbanization with efforts to clean up the environment.
 

nimo_cn

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Chinese are not allowed to travel across the country without permission from CCP unless it's during spring festival, that explains the massive migration during the spring festival.

Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2
 
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Ray

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The Hukou and Danwei system thigh much maligned since it totally controls the citizen's lifestyle and individuality has its positives too.

From the Govt's point of view and good governance, it ensures that the people get social dues and there is harmony and stability.

It (the Hukou and Danwei) controls the overcrowding of urban areas and thereby burden the infrastructure, apart from other benefits.
 

ice berg

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This is indeed a good source. I now have a better understanding of what is happening in China. I have had an initial and brief read through this 70 page pdf and several things stand out.

The first is the communist party's "control" over every human.

China has a permit system in which every Chinese gets a permit of "hukou" which permanently brands him at birth as urban or rural
ref pages 7-8


Due to an economic downturn in the 1960s which the government could not support the city dweller the Chicom government developed an anti-urbanization policy where city residents were reverted to agricultural hukou where they did not get benefits! (page 8) - goal post moved by the government! :lol:

Later as the economy developed, the Chicom's realised that an anti-urbanization policy was no good - so the policy has now changed to "encourage" urbanization

From page 42:


Because bigger cities and more industrialization means more money, smaller city administrations are encouraged to "annexe" surrounding areas. It is these annexed areas that may contain agricultural hukou holder who suddenly become part of a city
From box 7 page 56




But the confusion comes from this agriculrural versus non agriculrural hukou
From page 63


So China's "forced urbanization" is true.
I suggest you read it again. This time read it without a ready conclusion.
Right now you have a theory and trying to fit the article into your theory.
 

ice berg

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Please point out the section relevant to the question of whether or not the government of China can tell Chinese people where to live. It can tell people how many children they can have, correct? So it seems logical it can tell people where to live.
Need to be spoon-feed? It is in English. Do your own homework. I am not Fox news to tell you want to think. I provided the article. The rest is up to you.
 

ice berg

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You have not read your 70 page pdf yourself.

Annexation and hukou.

A metropolitan area annexes surrounding rural land, pays unfair compensation and uses the land for industry, roads or housing. The residents there, who had agricultural hukou get no city benefits but are forced to live in the city. They no longer have any land to "go back" to.

Since China does not have a free press and individuals cannot fight the powerful party, we hear about these things only from unofficial sources, and once in a while from a protest that goes out of hand.
Where does it say that all migrants into city is forced because their land was taken from them? Just because some are forced dosnt means all are forced.
And individuals cant fight? hehehe.

China Protest Forcing Nuclear Retreat Shows People Power - Bloomberg

Protests in a southern Chinese city last week that forced local authorities to abandon plans for a uranium-processing facility highlight the growing willingness of ordinary people to challenge the state on environmental issues.
 

Ray

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Need to be spoon-feed? It is in English. Do your own homework. I am not Fox news to tell you want to think. I provided the article. The rest is up to you.
There are lot of new policies that are being contemplated and so it would be worthwhile for a Chinese citizen to clarify the doubts.

Hukou decides where a person can stay for his whole lifetime.

Yet, I believe it is being changed or has been changed.

So, it is obvious that one would like to know what is the latest situation, more so, since there is this industrialisation and migrant workers, who do not have the Hukou facilities in their place of work, nor is the Danwei system applicable.

What is the Hukou status of those whose land is taken for industrialisation and that land is amalgamated into the city?
 
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