China says its military arsenal comparable with West

Discussion in 'China' started by NSG_Blackcats, Sep 21, 2009.

  1. NSG_Blackcats

    NSG_Blackcats Member of The Month OCTOBER 2009 Senior Member

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    Beijing: China's military now possesses most of the sophisticated weapon systems found in the arsenals of developed Western nations, the country's Defense Minister said in comments published on Monday. Many of those systems match or are close to matching the capabilities of their counterparts in the West, Liang Guanglie said in a rare interview posted on the ministry's Web site.

    "This is an extraordinary achievement that speaks to the level of our military's modernisation and the huge change in our country's technological strength," Liang said. Liang cited the J-10 fighter jet, latest-generation tanks, Navy destroyers, and cruise and intercontinental ballistic missiles as among the Chinese defence industry's biggest achievements.

    The military's goal is to achieve complete mechanisation and computerisation by 2020 and produce a fully modern force before mid-century, Liang said. The minister's remarks come ahead of China's biggest military parade in a decade scheduled for October 1 National Day in Beijing. That event will showcase much of the country's most advanced equipment, the fruit of China's booming economy and nearly two decades of annual double digit percentage increases in the defense budget.

    Liang said he believed the parade would "display the image of a mighty force, a civilised force, a victorious force." The 2.3 million-member People's Liberation Army is the world's largest standing military and its modernisation has been accompanied by gradual steps toward greater engagement with the outside world. Liang said China has contributed 13,000 troops to UN peace keeping operations along with three Navy flotillas to join in anti-piracy patrols of the coast of Somalia. Despite such moves, however, the PLA remains largely a closed shop and military ties with the United States and other nations are often hobbled by disputes over Taiwan and other political issues.

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  3. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    it is USA alone or all of Europe,canada,australia,New zealand??
     
  4. NSG_Blackcats

    NSG_Blackcats Member of The Month OCTOBER 2009 Senior Member

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    I think China now claiming all its defense system is in the same class of that of Russia, USA, and Europe. But my point is if they are capable of developing defense system to the same class of Russian why they are still purchasing weapons from Russia? Why they are using Russian Engines on JF-17, J-10? Anyone can claim anything but they need to prove their claim.
     
  5. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    when they innovate something instead of reverse enginneering Russian copies than people will believe these kind of claims.
     
  6. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Lol. They are right that their systems are like the west. Minus the sophistication, all their systems are rip offs of the west. Now they acknowledge as much.
     
  7. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    What? Is the public relations wing of the PLA really that incompetent? Unless there is a specific local military/political agenda being served, making such statements only lends weight to growing Western concerns of the regional ramifications of 'China's rising military might', and serves to consolidate in the minds of the Western public an image of an ascending, authoritarian China that is antithetical to Western strategic interests. Any engagement thereby to ameliorate or mitigate that power is also likewise justified.

    One would tread softly if one truly possessed a big stick (no sexual innuendo at any phallic affliction intended).
     
  8. GokuInd

    GokuInd Regular Member

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    As Deng once said:

    Keep a cool head and maintain a low profile. Never take the lead - but aim to do something big. :)
     
  9. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    China's military power takes 'quantum leap': defence minister

    China's military power takes 'quantum leap': defence minister

    by Staff Writers
    Beijing (AFP) Sept 21, 2009
    China's military capability has taken a "quantum leap" thanks to a modernisation drive and its weaponry rivals that of Western countries, the nation's defence minister said in an interview Monday.

    The comments by Liang Guanglie came in an interview published by Xinhua news agency 10 days before China is set to roll out a range of advanced weaponry in a National Day military parade.

    "Our capabilities in waging defensive combat under modern conditions have taken a quantum leap," Liang was quoted as saying.

    Liang rattled off a list of achievements in military technology and hardware by the People's Liberation Army (PLA) including military-use satellites, advance aircraft, tanks, artillery and missiles.

    "It could be said that China has basically all the kinds of equipment possessed by Western countries, much of which reaches or approaches advanced world standards.

    "This is a very remarkable achievement which not only reflects the level of modernisation of our army, but also tremendous changes in national science and technology strength."

    Chinese media said earlier this month that "52 types" of new homegrown weapons would debut during the October 1 parade, and recent rehearsals through the capital have offered glimpses of the hardware, notably an array of powerful missiles.

    "It is no exaggeration to say that our army has a strong combat capability," Liang said.

    China has poured money into its armed forces in recent years in a bid to transform the once-backward PLA into a lean, professional and high-tech fighting force.

    China's military spending rose 15.3 percent in 2009 to 69 billion dollars, according to a budget submitted to parliament in March, the latest in a string of double-digit increases.

    Amid growing concern overseas about China's military intentions, Beijing stresses the defensive nature of its armed forces.

    earlier related report
    Obama makes UN debut amid diplomatic flurry
    US President Barack Obama makes his UN debut this week as world leaders gather for a whirlwind of talks on climate change, the Middle East, nuclear non-proliferation and the financial crisis.

    But with a range of burning issues at the top of agenda for Obama and more than 120 heads of state and government, officials were already less than optimistic of any major breakthroughs out of this week's political pow-wows.

    All eyes will be on the US leader Tuesday as he attends a climate change summit hosted by UN chief Ban Ki-moon to galvanize political will on reducing greenhouse gas emissions before key December talks in Copenhagen.

    "I confess that I am very worried by the prospects for Copenhagen. The negotiations are dangerously close to deadlock at the moment," EU Commission chief Jose Manuel Barroso told a think-tank in New York on Monday.

    Also on Tuesday Obama will hold his first three-way summit with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas to try to nudge them into resuming deadlocked Middle East peace talks.

    But Israeli and Palestinian officials are cautioning not to expect a breakthrough after weeks of shuttle diplomacy by US Middle East envoy George Mitchell failed to narrow wide differences on the issue of Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank.

    And the White House Monday also added its own voice of caution.

    "We have no grand expectations out of just one meeting," White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said on Air Force One as Obama headed to New York state.

    Wednesday, as the 192-member UN General Assembly kicks off its annual debate, Obama will deliver an eagerly-awaited maiden speech in which he is expected to pledge anew to work closely with the world body.

    Also highly anticipated, is a speech by Libyan President Moamer Kadhafi making his first ever trip to the United Nations during his four decades in power.

    He will speak immediately after Obama, with US officials hoping he will steer clear of the controversy over the release of the convicted Lockerbie bomber, a former Libyan spy.

    Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, who has pledged to champion the cause of emerging democracies, China's Hu Jintao and Iranian leader Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, under fire for his country's suspect nuclear program, will also step up to the podium on Wednesday.

    Also speaking will be ousted Honduran leader Manuel Zelaya, kicked out in a June coup, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and France's Nicolas Sarkozy.

    The issue of nuclear non-proliferation will be the main focus of Thursday's events with Obama to chair an unprecedented summit in the UN Security Council.

    US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said Obama would use the meeting to "emphasize the importance of strengthening the international nuclear non-proliferation regime."

    The summit will come just a week before the five Security Council permanent members -- the United States, Russia, China, Britain and France -- plus Germany are due to meet Iran's top nuclear negotiator Saeed Jalili on October 1.

    Western nations are pressing Iran to halt its uranium enrichment drive which they suspect is aimed at making nuclear weapons.

    Tehran denies the charges and says its nuclear program is solely geared toward generating electricity.

    Ahmadinejad's office said the Iranian leader would head Tuesday to the United Nations with a message of peace.

    "His main message is to have peace and friendship with all nations based on justice and mutual respect," Mohammad Jaffar Mohammad Zadeh, information officer said, quoted by the official IRNA news agency.

    Ban will meanwhile Thursday hold a ministerial session with his partners in the Middle East peace Quartet, which groups the United Nations, the United States, Russia and the European Union.

    And the same day Pakistani leader Asif Ali Zardari is to huddle with Obama, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown and the so-called Friends of Pakistan for talks on how international donors can best assist the democratically elected government in Islamabad.

    Obama and several of his peers will then trek to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania for a two-day summit beginning Thursday of the Group of 20 developed and developing economies aimed at tightening financial regulations a year after the global economic crisis erupted.
     
  10. arya

    arya Senior Member Senior Member

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    hi

    any one want to say any thing after our air chief

    its time guys we also have to increase our number we have to increase speed of modernization of our force

    jai hind
     
  11. redragon

    redragon Regular Member

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    The whole world was laughing at China's back date hardwares in the whole 80-90's. China cut almost all projects except for that of the ICBM, used all the money saved to build up infrastructure. Seems to me Indian are taking a different strategy
     
  12. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Probably New Zealand... :sarcastic:
     
  13. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    OK... Chinese MoD is now certifiably insane.

    J-10 still uses Russian engines and their advanced BVRAAM PL-12 still uses Russian datalinks and seekers. Their advanced tanks are little more than modified T-72s and the boasts about it being otherwise are just that. Their air defence destroyers have gone nowhere... several cancelled designs with no mass produced ship class. Land based ICBMs are not hard to make, the warheads are the key to success and theirs are still bulky.
     
  14. redragon

    redragon Regular Member

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    I am suprised that Liang actually said something like that, generally, chinese officers are low profile
     
  15. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    So much for the "Peaceful Rise" strategy. They are flexing their "fake" muscles.
     
  16. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    Of Fake muscles ( Silicone breasts ) and RE or rather PE

    Fake muscles ? yeah and silicone boops too !

    Much of what the CPC calls RE (reverse - engineering ) SHOULD actually be called ; PE ( PARASITE Engineering )

    and most of it was parasited off russian designs .

    i wonder if our russian friends can prevent that from happening in future.

    ( pssst ; study parasitology ! it may help prevention in future )
     
  17. redragon

    redragon Regular Member

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    I would say the same, never mind about chinese bluffing, I think it will take at least another 50 years, if not forever, for China to be really relying on it's own tech.
     
  18. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Main problem with the Chinese defence machine is inefficiency. While they have some great engineers and scientists, their industry does not run as a business. It is just a major waste of capital running in the red like so many Sino state enterprises. While China may spend several billion on R&D, they are only getting hundreds of millions worth annually in actual advancement. Reading reports on the Shenyang Aircraft Corp. makes it look like an inept industry as many of PRC's are. As a Russian, I can't say we aren't without some of the same problems. Many of our state owned defence companies are in the red but the difference is, ours actually can and do go bankrupt. Market forces drive the Russian defence industry as we compete on a global scale, of which China really does not. To deal with our own inadequacies we team up with nations to solve our defence issues... two heads are better than one approach. China is all alone except for Pakistan whose defence industry has nothing to offer in the modern sense in joint projects. China is left with the only option to buy Soviet technologies and try to copy or adapt them. Their most advanced domestic equipment are poor 1980's clones of obsolete military technology. This puts the cutting edge of PLA 30 years behind Russia's cutting edge and 40 years behind the US. The total average combat effectiveness of all PLA forces is 30 years behind us and 40-45 years behind USA. Backbone of their tank forces is the Type-59 which is a cloned T-54 while PLAAF relies on J-7s (MiG-21) and Q-5s as theirs.
     
  19. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    If China markets their cloned Russian systems I say cut them off. We stopped relying on their business several years ago. I was happy to see we actually denied them Su-33 but we signed a deal this year for 100 AL-31s for the J-10s. Without our engines their new planes will not fly... that shoud be worth some leverage. They signed an intellectual property agreement last year and if they cannot abide by it, they should suffer the consequences. I really don't care what we sell China as long as they don't rexport our technology. Its too bad their defence sector cuts themselves off from joint projects. There are some good Chinese scientists out there, although most of them live in US.
     
  20. oliver999

    oliver999 Regular Member

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    why not? china has 3rd generation demestic made tanks ,fighters, missles(leading europe).
     
  21. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    "when they innovate something instead of reverse enginneering Russian copies than people will believe these kind of claims."

    Why the hostility towards reverse engineering? The Romans thought it was a great idea and it helped them to defeat their arch-enemy Carthage.

    "The Romans, who had little experience in naval warfare prior to the First Punic War, managed to finally defeat Carthage with a combination of reverse engineering captured Carthaginian ships...." See Carthage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Reverse engineering has been going on for thousands of years. It is nothing new.

    Regarding Vladimir79's claim: "Their most advanced domestic equipment are poor 1980's clones of obsolete military technology. This puts the cutting edge of PLA 30 years behind Russia's cutting edge and 40 years behind the US."

    I cannot agree with Vladimir79's statement. Let's look at one prominent example. China's sub-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) is the Julang 2. Based on available information, the Julang 2 passed its tests and it is being installed on the Type 094 ballistic missile submarine.

    "The Julang 2 missile was successfully tested by the PLA Navy in Jan. 2001 and a successful test of the undersea launch system was conducted in October 2001. This system is planned for installation on the Type 94 SLBM submarine at Huludao. Each PLA Navy "boomer" is designed to carry 12 JL-2 missiles in a sail like configuration similar to Russian designed Delta class boats. The first JL-2 armed Type 94 is expected to be operational in 2008." See http://www.softwar.net/dongfeng.html

    However, Russia's Bulava SLBM has failed six of its eleven test launches.

    "Another launch of Russia’s Bulava missile ended with a failure." "Russia has held ten test launches of the Bulava rocket since 2003: five of them proved to be unsuccessful." "Experts say that several consecutive unsuccessful launches of the missile endanger the whole project." See http://english.pravda.ru/russia/economics/17-07-2009/108206-bulava-0

    Does anybody still believe Vladimir's claim that China's successful Julang 2 is "30 years behind Russia's cutting edge" Bulava failures?

    American publications believe the Julang 2 is comparable to the American Trident SLBM.

    "The JL-2 is comparable in size and performance to the American Trident C-4 long-range multiple-warhead three-stage solid-fuel missile." See http://www.upi.com/Security_Industr...veiling-of-new-DF-41-ICBM/UPI-75591252097486/ or http://anja-athirdeye.blogspot.com/

    "According to American experts, the JL-2, like China's intercontinental surface-to-surface Dongfeng-31 (DF-31), tested successfully this summer, is equipped with technology adapted from the Trident D-5." See http://www.spacedaily.com/news/china-99x.html
     

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