China`s Human Rights Violations

K Factor

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Red Dragon, the question is not to compare which is better, Indian system or Chinese, which all the Chinese members are trying to do. That is not the purpose of the thread.

The purpose is - are these blatant violations of human rights in China "by the state" justified?'

Is is justified to put a man in jail, who was giving legal advice to parents whose children had died in the earthquake due to faulty construction of schools and negligence of the party officials and bureaucrats, and wanted to file complaints against those officials?
 

Singh

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Lets keep this thread about China. No need to involve comparisons.
 

Daredevil

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Wal-Mart suppliers in China charged with rights abuses

Wed Nov 25, 12:38 pm ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) – Wal-Mart supplier factories in China feature abusive conditions in violation of the retailer's own "basic" standards, a labor report showed Wednesday.

Workers making shoes, Christmas lights, tools, curtains and paper boxes sold at Wal-Mart stores endure "illegal and degrading conditions," New York-based China Labor Watch said, based on its probe.

The group's investigation of five Wal-Mart supplier factories reveals that "not a single factory has implemented Wal-Mart's basic standards, and a total of 10,000 workers included in the report suffer serious rights abuses," the group said in a statement.

Wal-Mart has persistently faced charges of rights abuses relating to its workers in China, from where it procures billions of dollars worth of goods directly to maintain its position as the world's largest retailer.

"This is not about a single factory, but about Wal-Mart's inability to implement its standards," says CLW executive director Li Qiang.

In the report, CLW attributed the alleged failure to "ineffective auditing and a pricing structure that forces factories to sell goods at unsustainable prices.
"As the world's largest retailer, Wal-Mart leverages its massive product orders to purchase goods at low prices, and workers suffer the financial burden," the group said.

As Wal-Mart gears up for year-end holiday sales, the report said two of the five factories "illegally underpay overtime wages at rates as low as 44 cents per hour."

Two factories withheld wages from workers who fail to meet production quotas, it said.

"Workers' low wages are further undermined by excessive fines and unpaid days off or maternity leave, and some workers cannot even purchase social security," the report charged.

Worker abuse extends beyond paychecks, CLW claimed, saying workers at two factories were denied gloves on the grounds that it would slow production, and dormitory conditions were so poor that at one factory, "there was no running water in the bathrooms."

"Worst of all, two of the factories have rules forcing workers to lie to Wal-Mart auditors, forcing workers into silence as Wal-Mart turns a blind eye to sweatshop conditions," it claimed.

Wal-Mart entered China in 1996 and employs more than 50,000 people in 147 outlets in the country.

The retailer allows trade unions to operate in its China stores but it is at odds with representatives of US unions unable to organize in its home operations.
Asked about the latest report, Wal-Mart had no immediate comment.
 

nimo_cn

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Red Dragon, the question is not to compare which is better, Indian system or Chinese, which all the Chinese members are trying to do. That is not the purpose of the thread.

The purpose is - are these blatant violations of human rights in China "by the state" justified?'

Is is justified to put a man in jail, who was giving legal advice to parents whose children had died in the earthquake due to faulty construction of schools and negligence of the party officials and bureaucrats, and wanted to file complaints against those officials?
The problem here is how much in your post is objective. I tell you, none. Many human right violation mentioned in your post do exist, but your posts are exaggerating and twisting these, and that pisses me off.

Horrible human right violations do happen in China from time to time, i don't deny that. But that doesnt mean we are a country that doesnt care human right at all. Many these thing happens in Indian,too, according to your logic, India does not respect individual human right , either, do you agree? That why we ask for a comparison between China and India, if things are the same in India and China why only criticise us?
 

nimo_cn

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Oh wait, I forgot - you are willing to sacrifice a few children's lives for your economic freedom.
How come the death of the children in earthquake is related to economy freedom? Please explain this to me, we have never said we will develop our economy at the expense of our children.
 

Singh

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Many these thing happens in Indian,too, according to your logic, India does not respect individual human right , either, do you agree? That why we ask for a comparison between China and India, if things are the same in India and China why only criticise us?
Am afraid this particular thread is not for comparison, and nor do we encourage pissing contests.

Since you acknowledge there are many HR violations occurring in China, therefore this thread's topic is both valid and worth discussing.

There are many threads on HR violations in India, you may wish to check them out.
 

redragon

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without comparison or competition, a consumer will never find out the real cost that he should pay for a certain product. to inspect a country or a system is exactly like to inspect a product, we need to compare the target with similar product which has similar features.
human right violation can't be abslutly avoided, different countries with different history back ground and culture at it's own certain developing stage will face very specific problem, only the proper comparison can reveal the truth and the effectiveness of different solutions
 

asheng312

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Indian government does not destroy the homes of the slum-dwellers in India just because the country is hosting Olympics/some other game, which China does. Which means that the country's false image to the outside world is more important to the Chinese leaders and bureaucrats than the welfare and lives of the people.

Well mate, its not as if everybody in China is a rich man. An unemployment rate of 4% exists (n yeah I know you will say that it is 6.8, but then we don't claim to be industrial leaders of the world). So, for that much, I think giving up your free way of life and living like zombies is too much.

If you tell me that I can have the freedom to choose my way of life, to say what I want, to choose who represents us, to have as many kids as I want and I will be paid $1000, I will rather take that than the choice where I don't have my freedom to express myself, freedom to have more than one kid if I want, freedom to choose the government, and earn $1500.

Money can buy most things but not satisfaction, contentment and happiness and most of all, money cannot buy freedom. Look at Russia, the state is gradually strengthening its grip over the major industries and industrialists. .[/B]
Are u sure about "Indian government does not destroy the homes of the slum-dwellers in India “? As far as I know, India swept out a large area of dwellers in Mumbai not long ago. Defferent areas may be different condition. But in Ningbo and other cities in Zhejiang province, most people are wishing that their houses be destroyed because they may be come not so poor or even rich overnight. The only dispute between the goverment and the house owner is how many houses and how much money will be compensate.
If you indian people like to criticize our "one child policy", just do what you want. You will finally find yourself in trouble later. In fact, it is India that was criticized from now and then for not being able to control people and decrease people number. You are definetely right, most people in China are very poor. we are still a developing country. But an ordinary famer migrant worder would earn about 2500 RMB per month. While most colleage graduate would only earn about 1500RMB at the beginning.you are the alma in India society ,while most Chinese in this forum are very ordinary ones. We will not waste time and money and feeling on choosing who will be the gorverner, because in most cases , the party is on our side. for the timebeing, developing is our biggest problem. as you can see ,the party works so well for 30 years. While you can choose whatever governer you want, who really represent you to develop fast ?
BTW, women's life and position, as I think , maybe the highest in Asia.

And BTW, hoping is good, but I have highlighted enough articles above to show the kind of life that awaits your children.

The children who died in the earthquake do not have justice and those who want justice against the corrupt officials are jailed on some false pretext.

Oh wait, I forgot - you are willing to sacrifice a few children's lives for your economic freedom.
Don't worry about our children, they are much better than most children in the world. Chinese parents are the most great parent in the world. they would live a very poor and tough life but the life of their children must be better. they will sacrifice a lot of thing ,like time, energy, money and nearly anything to ensure their child live a better life, get better education,. If the god give we Chinese a chance to choose between a few children's life and the world's most powerful country right now, I as and ordinary Chinese man would surely choose the later.even if one of them is my son. Why ? before 1949, we have sacrifice so many of our people ,only to establish a new country, a prosperous ,rich and powerful country. our country is made of blood and flesh. maybe this is the biggest different between China and India.
 

asheng312

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For thousands of people I know, no one of them was arrested for political reason. While I have come in to a few people who support Falungon and TIBET seperation, they want to turn me into one of them . All their reasons to anti gorverment is corrupcy, economy gap between the rich and the poor, and nothing else. that's totally shit.
Love China, Love the party.Love the people.
 

no smoking

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This thread is about "Human rights in China" it is not about comparison so stick to topic
It is not about comparison.

I'm trying to explain to you why most of chinese still support CCP when there are human rights violations.
 

nitesh

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It is not about comparison.

I'm trying to explain to you why most of chinese still support CCP when there are human rights violations.
well my point is clear no need to bring India in between hope this clarifies
 

no smoking

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Indian government does not destroy the homes of the slum-dwellers in India just because the country is hosting Olympics/some other game, which China does. Which means that the country's false image to the outside world is more important to the Chinese leaders and bureaucrats than the welfare and lives of the people.
Yes, india gov doesn't destroy of slum-dowellers, but it did nothing to improve these people's life in almost 5 decades.


Well mate, its not as if everybody in China is a rich man. An unemployment rate of 4% exists (n yeah I know you will say that it is 6.8, but then we don't claim to be industrial leaders of the world). So, for that much, I think giving up your free way of life and living like zombies is too much.


Well, most of chinese is not rich, but they still have a decent life: living under the roof and having 3 meals each day. And even the extreme anti-ccp activists have to admit that life is geting better for almost EVERYONE.

If you tell me that I can have the freedom to choose my way of life, to say what I want, to choose who represents us, to have as many kids as I want and I will be paid $1000, I will rather take that than the choice where I don't have my freedom to express myself, freedom to have more than one kid if I want, freedom to choose the government, and earn $1500.
How about keeping your freedom with $2/day or trade it for $10/day? Maybe $8 is nothing to you, but it is a big difference for the people stuggling in the poverty.

Money can buy most things but not satisfaction, contentment and happiness and most of all, money cannot buy freedom. Look at Russia, the state is gradually strengthening its grip over the major industries and industrialists.
Yes, money cannot buy satisfaction, contentment and happiness. But without money, you cannot have these either. Money cannot buy freedom, but without money, freedom is worthless.

I'm arguing that you are wrong and I'm right. What i am trying to say is: the people in india and china have a different opinion regarding freedom. We may not agree with each other but we should not look down on each other.
 

Vladimir79

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Money can buy most things but not satisfaction, contentment and happiness and most of all, money cannot buy freedom. Look at Russia, the state is gradually strengthening its grip over the major industries and industrialists.
Look at Russia how? The government buyout of major industries has been occuring ever since 2001 and started when Russians were happy. Now that Russians are pissed, the government is forced to sell them off.
 

K Factor

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The problem here is how much in your post is objective. I tell you, none. Many human right violation mentioned in your post do exist, but your posts are exaggerating and twisting these, and that pisses me off.

Horrible human right violations do happen in China from time to time, i don't deny that. But that doesnt mean we are a country that doesnt care human right at all. Many these thing happens in Indian,too, according to your logic, India does not respect individual human right , either, do you agree? That why we ask for a comparison between China and India, if things are the same in India and China why only criticise us?
Since you want to bring everything in comparison to China, let me bring up the most volatile and shameful chapter of Chinese modern history which made China pariah in the eyes of the world - Tiannanmen Square.

The "State" used tanks and machine-guns on its own students,who were demonstrating peacefully, slaughtering and butchering thousands.

Nowhere in the world has such a barbaric act by the state happened, barring the Nazi holocaust. Come on, aren't there things called discussions, meetings, agreements? In India, the govt does not use army on he Maoists because even if they are violent and misguided, they are the citizen of India.

Why is it that nobody in China is protesting when an innocent man is victimised just because he was helping the parents of the children who died due to the corruption of the party officials? Its not because of economic freedom or growth, its because you are scared.

You are scared because if you protest, you will be victimized and harrased and an example will be made out of you. You live in constant fear, and trying to pacify yourself that this is happening to someone else and you are safe, but what if something happens to you or your family?

The children whose future you are concerned about - what about "justice" for these dead children? I am not saying that you need to revolt, but justice should be served, should it not?
 

K Factor

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Yes, india gov doesn't destroy of slum-dowellers, but it did nothing to improve these people's life in almost 5 decades.
Its not a question of poverty. Its a question of freedom. Slums exist in China too, but they are hidden or bull-dozed when Olympics are hosted.

Well, most of chinese is not rich, but they still have a decent life: living under the roof and having 3 meals each day. And even the extreme anti-ccp activists have to admit that life is geting better for almost EVERYONE.
China's unemployment rate climbs

Unemployment Swells In China : NPR

China Unemployment: Going Beyond Official Records

Life is getting better everywhere most of the developing countries but not to the extent you suggest.

How about keeping your freedom with $2/day or trade it for $10/day? Maybe $8 is nothing to you, but it is a big difference for the people stuggling in the poverty.
So the CPC is buying the human rights and freedom of its citizen by money.

I'm arguing that you are wrong and I'm right. What i am trying to say is: the people in india and china have a different opinion regarding freedom. We may not agree with each other but we should not look down on each other.
Agreed, but thats the point. Just as you think think that there are many poor people in India, I see that an innocent man is being framed and victimized by the Party/State and nobody dares to protest and feel really sorry for that man, because he is a good man, a just man and he has done no wrong, but still he is punished.

This thread is to discuss why no one protests such acts in China. I really hope you appreciate my point.
 

K Factor

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Look at Russia how? The government buyout of major industries has been occuring ever since 2001 and started when Russians were happy. Now that Russians are pissed, the government is forced to sell them off.
Vladimir, earnestly, in view of your post, I am unable to understand these articles. Can you please explain the Russian dynamics at work here in these examples?

Kremlin Sidelines Oligarchs in Taking Norilsk Control (Update1) - Bloomberg.com ,
Future Mineral Exploration and Mine Industry in Russia During a Global Crisis - Company - Mining Exploration News

Article: Deripaska Losing Control Of Russneft To Russian State. - NEFTE Compass | HighBeam Research - FREE trial

The dead billionaire and the 'KGB poison killer' | News

Mikhail Khodorkovsky: The banged-up billionaire | Metro.co.uk
 

K Factor

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It is not about comparison.

I'm trying to explain to you why most of chinese still support CCP when there are human rights violations.
That is also my question. By supporting the CCP, you support these human rights violations.

And BTW, that also somewhat answers my question - you not only not protest these acts, you are not even neutral, you support the CCP.
 

no smoking

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That is also my question. By supporting the CCP, you support these human rights violations.

And BTW, that also somewhat answers my question - you not only not protest these acts, you are not even neutral, you support the CCP.
When people exams his gov's performance, he has to look at multiple problems. Human right is just a segment of it.

When australia take side with USA to invade iraq, more than 70& of population condemn the gov and question the gov's credibility in using fake WMD evidence. But in the following election, this gov won overwhelming support among the public. Why, because this gov is doing well in economy.

You may say we are talking about the chinese not some foreigners. But the same principle applied. When majority of chineses are satified with gov's performance in economy and believe they will get better in near future, do you think they will overthrown this gov and put themselves into uncertainty?

Still, I am not convincing you that i am right. Just want you to know how the chinese look at this kind of thing.
 

no smoking

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Its not a question of poverty. Its a question of freedom. Slums exist in China too, but they are hidden or bull-dozed when Olympics are hosted.
But the poverty does impact people's opinion on freedom. Obviously, bread is more attractive than any political word to a hungry man.


Life is getting better everywhere most of the developing countries but not to the extent you suggest.
But how fast? Maybe other countries won't mind waiting for another 20 years for this prograss. Chinese won't tolerate this delay.



So the CPC is buying the human rights and freedom of its citizen by money.
Yes, kind of. And the price is geting higher.


Agreed, but thats the point. Just as you think think that there are many poor people in India, I see that an innocent man is being framed and victimized by the Party/State and nobody dares to protest and feel really sorry for that man, because he is a good man, a just man and he has done no wrong, but still he is punished.
Suffering is suffering, no matter is caused by gov or employer, religions. The chinese just don't put the political freedom on the top of list at the current stage.


This thread is to discuss why no one protests such acts in China. I really hope you appreciate my point.
If you want to prove how CCP oppress people's political right, it is waste of time because every one knows this within and without china. So, I appreciate your point but I still support this gov as long as it can bring better future to this country.
 

Vladimir79

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The state has been taking control of industries that are underdeveloped and riddled with corruption. It doesn't want to leave them in the hands of oligarchs who go to UK and spend all the money in London. It is all part of Putin's war against oligarchs. The takeover is what it deems as necessary for the defence of the state, basically anything to do with the supply chain for the military and parts of our energy diplomacy. United Russia understands they have gone too far with the takeovers and are running out of investment capital, so they will sell companies that the state does not run well. It is the best way to plug the budget deficit. Russians can't make roads for shyte.
 

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