China preventing UN action on Libya

SHASH2K2

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I think this unilateral ceasefire is a just a ploy to fool the world. Gaddafi is just trying to buy some time. There are unconfirmed reports that Air raids are still going on. But one thing is sure that before world powers will be able to intervene rebels back will be broken and it will be very difficult to manage effective resistance to well trained Gaddafi forces.
 

pmaitra

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Gaddafi lays down arms after air strike threat

Gaddafi lays down arms after air strike threat

Published: 18 March, 2011, 16:07
Russia Today


Tripoli has submitted to the UN Security Council's demands and declared a ceasefire. The move comes after several nations announced preparation for air strikes on Gaddafi's troops, to which the UN resolution gave the green light.
The ceasefire was announced by Libyan Foreign Minister Mussa Kussa in a TV statement. He pledged that the government will do its best to ensure peace and order in the country and protect human rights.

He also pointed to the hardships that sanctions imposed by the world community against Gaddafi's regime bring to the population.
The minister said the government is ready to negotiate with any forces interested in preserving Libya's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and called for an international on-site investigation into the situation.

Earlier on Thursday, the UN Security Council approved a resolution which allowed military action against Libyan forces as long as they helped stop violence in the country and did not include any ground operations.

After the resolution came into force, France, Britain and Saudi Arabia were reportedly ready to begin air strikes on government troops in several hours.

Source: http://rt.com/news/air-threat-un-resolution/
 

Nonynon

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Now lets hope the Rebels will do the same or Libya will be the same way it was in no time.
 

pmaitra

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Now lets hope the Rebels will do the same or Libya will be the same way it was in no time.
The question is whether Monsieur Sarkozy might try to ship in weapons and bolster the rebels and try to provoke Gaddafi.

NATO countries are known for their treachery, like we have seen in Yugoslavia/Serbia.
 

Nonynon

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I think they'd rather keep Gandafi in some minor power then finish him off completely. Mostly to have some common enemy with the new rebel government and to keep on the show that Nato and the West never stop supporting those who battle the forces of evil, so I don't expect them to let him to keep his Libyan oil.
 

redragon

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I think they'd rather keep Gandafi in some minor power then finish him off completely. Mostly to have some common enemy with the new rebel government and to keep on the show that Nato and the West never stop supporting those who battle the forces of evil, so I don't expect them to let him to keep his Libyan oil.
Forces of evil? Who you are referring to? hopefully you won't have to call what you think is Forces of good at this moment Forces of Evil later.
 

captonjohn

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the rebels are not good apples ,either.....

frankly speaking, even if the rebels were to take over the power and replace Gaddaffi,Lybia would still be ruled by another "bad apple".

and Finally when the "revolution" is finished and lots of lives and blood are lost, you would find nothing would change in Lybia,except that the old dictator called "Gaddaffi" were to be repalced with a new bad dictator perhaps called "iffaddaG"..........

.the state would be still run by the rich "elite"....the poor would be still the disadvantaged group and their voice would be still ignored .the unemployed would be still unemployed....and the earth would still go round....

It is quite naive to believe one or two revolutions can "reshape" one state and fix all problems....
Good point badguy, I think one solution can work in Libya. Say if Gaddafi goes then it is most likely that he will be replaced by someone who will become another dictator later so the solution to this problem is that UN should make a facility, a system for Libyan public so that no any leader can stay in power for long. I mean first conduct fair election strictly watched by UN and world then add a charter in their constitution that no any president, prime minister, leader can be chosen more than two times and after that he won't be eligible for election on particular post.

A true democracy is an ultimate solution for Libya because whatever disadvantage democracy have but it has one major advantage that is each leader will have to listen his people otherwise he will get thrown out by public in next election.
 

captonjohn

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I think this unilateral ceasefire is a just a ploy to fool the world. Gaddafi is just trying to buy some time. There are unconfirmed reports that Air raids are still going on. But one thing is sure that before world powers will be able to intervene rebels back will be broken and it will be very difficult to manage effective resistance to well trained Gaddafi forces.
Unfortunately this is true, a bitter true that weak has no any right and nobody support him for whatever reason. Gaddafi has won the war because now he will save his power, his life and everything for which he had killed more than 6000 people. Rebels are now too much weak to resist Gadaffi's force and everyone is responsible for that including India, China, Russia, US, Saudi Arebia. Everyone is responsible for that, you were right that here jungle's law rules. I won't talk about others but India will have to pay heavy dividend for his impotent action. India definitely need a lesson when two countries will attack on India from both side and give India an catastrophic loss of life and territory. At that time India will remember his action done with Libya because when we will be in problem world will watch and clap.
 

Nonynon

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Forces of evil? Who you are referring to? hopefully you won't have to call what you think is Forces of good at this moment Forces of Evil later.
I don't think any side is 'the bad guys', when I said that I meant how the media reviews Gandafis forces. Like I said, the media makes the West and Nato in general look good and they probably like it.
 

pmaitra

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My take on this whole Libya issue so far:
  • Gaddafi softened his stand and won some recognition from the West. Many leaders from the West met him. Libya was back in the international fold, with trade and commerce, mainly relating to oil.
  • Revolutions started in different parts of Middle East and started spreading like wildfire. Many dictators, 'friends' of the US, were challenged, two stepped down (Tunisia and Egypt).
  • Other countries' leaderships have so far not budged to the protesters' demands (Libya, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Yemen).
  • Libya stands out like a sore thumb because Libyan rebels are actually well armed, unlike in the other countries.

Why France's position is apparently malafide:
What puzzles me, however, is that the West, all of a sudden, have found enough cause to point fingers at Gaddafi, as if all the human rights abuses he is accused of happened in the past few weeks. Au contraire, he has been repressing his people all throughout. Yet France chose to oppose him now. Why?

The timing must be noted. France recognised the anti-Gaddafi faction(s) when all the cities with oil infrastructure were slipping out of the latters' control. Who are these rebels? Where did they come from? Who is funding them? Who is supplying them with weapons and ammunition? One thing to note here is that, while there were many political prisoners in the prisons, there were many real criminals as well. The protesters and rebels have freed all of them and they are, in all likelihood among the rebels. This takes the rebels and their portfolio far away from anything that can be called potentially humanitarian. The rebels are equally capable of human rights abuses, and who can guarantee that they are not doing it anyway? They threatened to attack Sirte, Gaddafi's native place, despite the fact that Gaddafi was in Tripoli. So what was to objective? Did it have something to do with the population of Sirte being largely pro-Gaddafi?

'Jungle-Law':
The fact that one country can threaten to intervene in the internal affairs of another country in itself is a proof of 'jungle-law'. The world still works on the principle of 'survival of the mightiest'. Gaddafi's call for ceasefire has been a masterstroke, and can be called 'survival of the fittest'. He has denied Monsieur Sarkozy the moral high ground, saved his military for obliteration yet maintaining enough firepower to overwhelm the rebels at a later time, now that their back is almost broken.

Why India, along with Russia, PRC, Germany and Brazil are right:
  • It is not a case of good-vs-evil anymore.
  • Pro and anti-Gaddafi forces are both armed.
  • The credentials of the rebels are suspect.
  • Selective display of humanitarian sympathy for armed Libyan rebels while ignoring unarmed protesters elsewhere by Monsieur Sarkozy exposes his double standards and raises suspicions on his real intentions.

Kudos to India for abstaining! Good job for not supporting yet another 'jungle-law', where France becomes the self-styled policeman of the world.
 
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pmaitra

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I don't think any side is 'the bad guys', when I said that I meant how the media reviews Gandafis forces. Like I said, the media makes the West and Nato in general look good and they probably like it.
You are correct. The US led NATO forces looked the other way while the Albanian squatters and KLA terrorists burnt Serb neighbourhoods, desecrated their graves and churches, kidnapped people, cut off their organs and sold them in black market, hired mercenaries for Middle East to carry out brutal attacks on civilians, received arms shipments from the largest terrorist manufacturing plant of the world called Pakistan, etc.. All this hullabaloo about 'human rights' by the West is rather trite and hackneyed.
 

AirforcePilot

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India made a very bad mistake of abstaining and will pay the price. It shows India is afraid of China and Russia. Any hopes of India being a permanent member of the UNSC has evaporated after yesterdays vote.
 

redragon

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India made a very bad mistake of abstaining and will pay the price. It shows India is afraid of China and Russia. Any hopes of India being a permanent member of the UNSC has evaporated after yesterdays vote.
So your conclusion is China+Russia>US+E.U? or Indian GOV is an idiot?
sorry both of possibility are challenging common sense.
As for UNSC permanent member, it's a non-relevent issue, India will always have hard time to get it, no matter which side it selected, because non of the big 5 willing to share their powers.

P.S, if we follow your logic, are you also saying Germany is afraid of China and Russia, LOL, that is hilarious.
 

death.by.chocolate

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Clearly France is not a super power, it is just one global power. There is a difference, but then US is the only super power and they failed to act at all. The rebels are far from finished as Gaddafi doesn't have the forces to control the whole country. It is already going into guerrilla warfare.
I wonder what has changed since 1986 when France refused to allow USAF F-111's flights over French airspace to bomb targets in Libya aimed at ending Libya sponsored terrorist attacks on European and American targets.
 

pmaitra

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India made a very bad mistake of abstaining and will pay the price. It shows India is afraid of China and Russia. Any hopes of India being a permanent member of the UNSC has evaporated after yesterdays vote.
PRC is a different story altogether. However Russia? Seriously? Why on earth would India be scared of Russia? Do you not see that NATO itself is divided on this issue? Have you explored the possibility that India is not scared of France and US? UK doesn't count, because they like following other powers, typically US, but this time France, in most international campaigns to satisfy their ego that was so badly hurt since India ceased to be part of the British Empire.



I second this comment below:

So your conclusion is China+Russia>US+E.U? or Indian GOV is an idiot?
sorry both of possibility are challenging common sense.
As for UNSC permanent member, it's a non-relevent issue, India will always have hard time to get it, no matter which side it selected, because non of the big 5 willing to share their powers.

P.S, if we follow your logic, are you also saying Germany is afraid of China and Russia, LOL, that is hilarious.
 
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civfanatic

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My take on this whole Libya issue so far:
  • Gaddafi softened his stand and won some recognition from the West. Many leaders from the West met him. Libya was back in the international fold, with trade and commerce, mainly relating to oil.
  • Revolutions started in different parts of Middle East and started spreading like wildfire. Many dictators, 'friends' of the US, were challenged, two stepped down (Tunisia and Egypt).
  • Other countries' leaderships have so far not budged to the protesters' demands (Libya, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Yemen).
  • Libya stands out like a sore thumb because Libyan rebels are actually well armed, unlike in the other countries.

Why France's position is apparently malafide:
What puzzles me, however, is that the West, all of a sudden, have found enough cause to point fingers at Gaddafi, as if all the human rights abuses he is accused of happened in the past few weeks. Au contraire, he has been repressing his people all throughout. Yet France chose to oppose him now. Why?

The timing must be noted. France recognised the anti-Gaddafi faction(s) when all the cities with oil infrastructure were slipping out of the latters' control. Who are these rebels? Where did they come from? Who is funding them? Who is supplying them with weapons and ammunition? One thing to note here is that, while there were many political prisoners in the prisons, there were many real criminals as well. The protesters and rebels have freed all of them and they are, in all likelihood among the rebels. This takes the rebels and their portfolio far away from anything that can be called potentially humanitarian. The rebels are equally capable of human rights abuses, and who can guarantee that they are not doing it anyway? They threatened to attack Sirte, Gaddafi's native place, despite the fact that Gaddafi was in Tripoli. So what was to objective? Did it have something to do with the population of Sirte being largely pro-Gaddafi?

'Jungle-Law':
The fact that one country can threaten to intervene in the internal affairs of another country in itself a proof of jungle-law. The world still work on the principle of 'survival of the mightiest'. Gaddafi's call for ceasefire has been a masterstroke, and can be called 'survival of the fittest'. He has denied Monsieur Sarkozy the moral high ground, saved his military for obliteration yet maintaining enough firepower to overwhelm the rebels at a later time, now that their back is almost broken.

Why India, along with Russia, PRC, Germany and Brazil are right:
  • It is not a case of good-vs-evil anymore.
  • Pro and anti-Gaddafi forces are both armed.
  • The credentials of the rebels are suspect.
  • Selective display of humanitarian sympathy for armed Libyan rebels while ignoring unarmed protesters elsewhere by Monsieur Sarkozy exposes his double standards and raises suspicions on his real intentions.

Kudos to India for abstaining! Good job for not supporting yet another 'jungle-law', where France becomes the self-styled policeman of the world.
Very good post. Sums up what I've been thinking of as well.

I had hopes of a Libyan democracy somehow arising from this revolution, but now it seems like we have only two choices:

A) An anti-West dictatorship under Gadaffi
B) A pro-West dictatorship under the rebels

How does either one benefit the average Libyan? Unfortunately, it doesn't.
 

KS

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What a twist it has been.

For all the bravado the Brits and the French have been caught with their pants down after Qaddaffi declared a ceasefire - now ill they halt their plans for a military intervention and be snubbed or go ahead with the plan and earn the ire of attacking an Islamic country which has declared a ceasefire.

Where's my popcorn ?? :pop:
 

The Messiah

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All of this happened because gaddafi would have thrown all western companies out and invited companies from russia, china and India.

This is not war for democracy...libya consists of many competing tribal forces.
 

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