China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thread

Discussion in 'China' started by shiphone, May 23, 2014.

  1. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thread

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    ASIA PACIFIC CHINA POLICE 2014----the official sites.
    this Expo ended this afternoon. this was the 7th event and it seemed a little more extensive exhibition than the last one...so I would like to open a thread here and Repost some info from our defence forums , and with this to introduce the small arms projects for EXPORT coz the Police force is the important domestic market for these export projects in China....

    sources: Xinhua ,Sina, Huanqiu, Gun world bbs and some other forums.
    ------------------------------------

    there are quite some UAV projects from the the different subordinate enterprises of AVIC ( Aviation Industry Corporation of China ). this time the Guiyang Aviation Company(GAC) showcases its large UAV --鹞鹰2 (Yaoying II)on this Police Expo . the other one in the pic is the Yaoying I 鹞鹰1 UAV without strike ability but only for reconnaissance and surveillance...

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    the maiden flight took place years ago. , then the Yaoying 2 had no optronic observation system but a SAR fairing unlike the model displayed above (both mounted)

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    this is a larger UAV than the famous 翼龙 (Wingloong)of CAC group .

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    similar to the difference between MQ-9 and MQ-1

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    there is another project exists of the same size and weight class--the CH-4 from the China Aerospace Corporation, CASC (this is something like ISRO of India which develops Rockets and satellites mainly...and they began to expand the business into Aviation field ...the CH-3 from this group has won the order from Pakistan)

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  3. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

    AVIC also bring the Helicopter projects and some robot equiptments.

    AC311 heli --2 ton class

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    AC312-4 tons class

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    AC313-- 13 ton class

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    AF811 UAV

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    XJR-1 visitatorial robot

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    drainer inspection robot

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    vehicle bottom inspection robot


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  4. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

    nowadays ,the small remotely-piloted vehicle (Eg. FLYING CAM) is new 'threat' to the restricted zone and sensitive buildings especially in Capital area...
    the SKY NET 1 is something new to cope with these new threats( small ,slow ,and low altitued aerial targets).

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    the "warhead" is not explosive but a light weight "NET"

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    =======================

    some combat robot...(codename: MR5 ? )

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  5. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

    another Recon Scout robot ( deployment via toss)

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    Police car based on BMW5

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    Bulletproof car based on BMW X5

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    some 12.7mm remote weapon station from the Jianshe Industury

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  6. Sea Eagle

    Sea Eagle Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

    @shiphone

    Nice pictures..

    Btw could you also post details of AC313 13 tonne heli and the RCWS..

    plus what gun is used on MR 5 robot :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  7. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

    it's a rubber model(training gun) of Type81-1 7.62mm Assault Rifile which was replaced by QBZ95 5.8mm in PLA service...
    but the story of Type81 hasn't ended yet...right on this Expo, a new varient was displayed .ammunition is changed to NATO 7.62×51 from Russian 7.62×39 and many other changed details( flash hider, Mag,sight ,butt and lots of accessory rail)...the codename is CS/LR14(CS/LR serial is a export family of many small arms)...this varient has got a foreign order...
    and the improved NATO 7.62mm varient
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  8. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

    AC313 is an improved Civilian varient of Z-8 heli family (Z8F varient should be the predecessor and the base design is Aérospatiale Super Frelon )with three imported Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6B-67A engines and new fuselage, cockpit and avionics... The prototype first flew on 18 March 2010. It is designed to carry 27 passengers, has a reported maximum range of 900 kilometres with inner fuel, and a maximum payload of 13.8 tonnes.

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    AC313 has been order by Armed Police already...it is arranged to forest-police units for forest protection and forest fire prevention. a Red-White coating is iconic

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    for comparison, here is pic of Z8F which were early ordered and operated in the same unit.

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    Last edited: May 24, 2014
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  9. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

    CHONGQING JIANSHE Industury is the key Small arm manufacturer in China ...two generatiosn of PLA standard Rifiles(Type81 and 95) came from this group. and it is selling quite a group of Small Arms internationally...its exhibition stand is quite big and exhibits rich...

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    more details of CS/LR14--7.62mm NATO

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    the less changed front sight and 'rotor drum' style rear sight and the position has been changed as well

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    the' bolt handle ' is quite familiar

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    Type81's sights and bolt handle
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    Last edited: May 24, 2014
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  10. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

    AK74 style flash hider

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    gas regulator
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    safety
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    Folding butt
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    Mag and Optical sight
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  11. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

    CS/LS-2 9mm Sub MachineGun

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    caliber: 9mm
    length: 450mm (without silencer)
    weight: 2kg/ 2.4kg(with silencer)
    MAG capacity: 20 or 30 rounds
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    it is designed as a sileneed gun. but it could be used as a normal SMG without the silencer...it was chosen by some Police force units already...the first user might be Shanghai Police...

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    that is the export and Police use project, and there is a 5.8mm Military varient in PLA Special Force service named as QCW05 -5.8mm-5.8mm

    smaller caliber: 5.8mm
    a little longer: 500mm
    a little heavier: 2.2 KG(empty)
    and with a much more MAG capacity: 50 Rounds

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    some 3× optical sight with a Laser Pointer integrated..

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    some police force unit also chosed this 5.8mm varient

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    Last edited: May 24, 2014
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  12. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

    CS/LS-5 9mm SMG....advertisement word: this is not H&K MP5! ....LOL...

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    ====================

    this SMG appeared five years ago with a codename" Police SMG" in 2009...and one year later, it was displayed again ,this time it got the official codename " CS/LS-5 9mm " ---this is a Export project codename, and this means the project passed the certification test ,the date might be in late 2009...

    Police SMG in 2009

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    CS/LS-5 9mm SMG in 2010

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    although it looks like a MP5,but Operating mechanism(more close to AK ,M16's gas operating) and inner structure is totally different, which is less complicated and easier to make.

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    ========================

    BUT, is China manufacturing the MP5? I'm afraid the answer is yes...
    another Weapon manufacture Gaint --Norinco is selling the clone with the name NR08 and NR08A.

    NR08

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    the Visible Difference is at the 'safety indication'section...the symble for 'full auto mode position is marked with '6 bullets' ,which is copied from some BB gun manufactured in Hongkong(but they paint 7 bullets symbols).

    the MP5-- pay attention to the safety indications.
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    NR-08A is the folding butt varient...

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    Last edited: May 24, 2014
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  13. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

    New Police SMG 9mm project

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    obviously the new SMG project is under development . so no official codename was given yet...it is said that it might took another four years to complete. it seems the further development of CS/LS-5 , but no confirmation so far...

    1. the interesting ' Trigger Safety '
    2. the Safety and firing mode selector..folding butt--- this is one of the prototype, the Surface finish is quite rough indeed
    3. new shape flash hider
    4. the new Police SMG 9mm the 'old Police SMG 9mm'(CS/LS-5)

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    ============================
    surprisingly,on the other stand , there is another Prototype of this New Police SMG displayed..

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    some different design detail is noticable.
    eg...1 the Trigger safety, 2. the shape of grip 3.the shape of flash hider. 4. length adjustable folding butt

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    Last edited: May 24, 2014
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  14. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

    an Expo frequenter was missing on this Expo....but I thought I should list here with other Export 9mm SMGs as well... this is a product of another Small Arm manufacturer--Changfeng Machine Ltd. and the R&D team uesed to bid for the PLA 5.8mm SMG project bid with the prototype around 10 years ago. but it lost to the JianShe Group's QCW05 -5.8mm mentioned in post #10. then the team redesigned and Introduced a 9mm varient for Police and Export market. and then it got the export codename----

    CS/LS06 9mm SMG

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    length: 405mm and 588mm (retractable buttstock extended)
    width: 64mm
    height:195mm
    weight: 2.2 Kg
    Range: 150m
    MAG: 50 rounds

    the key highlight is the Calico style of 'high-capacity, cylindrical, helical-feed magazine '(50 rounds)
    the early prototype with transparent MAG
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    in service with the Armed Police of PLA

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    and Local Police units

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    it was exported as well(new model)

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    ===================

    in the past years, the perfection job didn't stop...nowadays the company is selling the latest varient in a new look .but with the same name--CS/LS06

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    the comparation between the old and new models...

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    Last edited: May 25, 2014
  15. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

    a correction here:

    the "13.8 tonnes" is the MTOW ,the usable payload should be less than 5 tonnes.
     
  16. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

    it seems some Local police SF team also chosed the CS/LS06 9mm SMG (new model)...some member of that unit shew it with a CS/LS02 9mm SMG on his twitter...

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  17. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

    let's back to the JianShe Industry's Stands...
    CS/LR-19 7.62mm Semi-Auto Sniper Rifile

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    it was in 1979 that China's Small arm designer got some captured equipment in the battle field--SDV, then the reverse engineer began , PLA got the Type79 Sniper Rifile(test version) ...years later ,the design finalized version --Type85 also appeared....

    Sniper from the Armed Police

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    Type79/85 was exported to the foreign Army as a military version.

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    Type79/85 was also market in the Civilian market of North America under the name of NDM-86 and PDM-86. there were some sub varient exists for different armmunitions: Russian 7.62×54 mm and NATO 7.51×51 mm R...basicly the remark about this civilian version was quite good within the American gun players, although they also thought the SDV was better...

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    the export package in 1990s

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    the new CS/LR-19 7.62mm comes with more plastics, more rails, new butt and rifle rack,which looks more 'modern' ...the installation in series of Optical sights and Night Vision, which is quite fashionable(Type79/85 use the changable Day optical sight or Night vision alone), would thanks the long rail on the top...

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    Last edited: May 27, 2014
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  18. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

    NQU-03 5.56mm Sniper Rifile(with some night vision)

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    --it is the 5.56mm NATO version of QBU-88 5.8mm Sniper Rifle in PLA service. and it used to be called as "Type 97" Sniper rifle as one member of "Type97 Rifile family". the new codename--NQU-03 is new to us all...

    the Type97-5.56mm family: Type97 Rifile( now it is called as NQZ-03A ), Type97 Carbine(NQZ-03B), Type97 Sniper Rifile...

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    after years use and test ,we found 5.56/5.8mm was too small caliber for a standard sniper rifile ,which was weak in Range and Killing ability, even the precision at a long distance would be a problem as well...so we don't think this is a standard sniper rifle but more close to a SharpShooter Rifile of American concept(heavy barrel and heavy bullet) .



    -----------------------------
    NQZ-03B 5.56mm Carbine(Type97B) is also displayed...

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    and NQZ-03A 5.56mm(Type97) rifile

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    and the QBZ-03 5.8mm of PLA Army also has a 5.56mm NATO varient with a burst mode and four rails...

    length: 725-950mm
    weight: 3.8kg
    MAG : 30 rds

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    three years ago on the same Expo, it looked like this:

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    Last edited: May 28, 2014
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  19. ghost

    ghost Regular Member

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    Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

    @shiphone excellent post,few questions for you:

    1 What is this obsession with copying weapons?Only a few days back i had seen a Chinese rifle resembling ak 12 in looks.

    2 What's with type that type this name of weapons?

    3 Does china plan to replace qbz with new standard assault rifle for army in near future(next 5 to 10 years)if yes !then with what?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  20. AVERAGE INDIAN

    AVERAGE INDIAN EXORCIST Senior Member

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    Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

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    Yep. They're great for I need a shitton of ammo at my disposal immediately, but that's about it. Helical magazines take up a ton of mag pouch space, and compared to how many magazines traditional you could fit in the same amount of magazine pouches or whatever, you'd probably end up with less ammunition going with helical magazines only. They take up a lot of space. You could double-stack two 30-round magazines on your chest taking up the same length/height as a 60-round helical, but since they'd probably be narrower, you'd likely be able to fit the double-30 pouches closer together opposed to the wider helical magazines. True, the Helical magazines do provide a significantly larger ammunition capacity, but the magazine design is more complicated, and can be more prone to jamming when compared to s regular stick mag, and that's assuming both are the same quality.

    any way nice pictures
     
  21. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

    1."a Chinese rifle resembling ak 12 in looks"-----------you'd better to show it ...let the image talks...
    2."obsession with copying weapons?"-----????...

    so far , in thread I only introduced two models of Small Arms which were really copied or cloned(but some more models would be introduced in my following posts) and it was well written in the books about the weapon's developping history : they are Type79/85 sniper rifile and NR08/08A SMG... others are orignal design from many different China's R&D teams...so ,what's your point?

    there are different rules and Understanding about the intellectual property of Weapon:

    1.one point of view is: weapon has no intellectual property---the collapsed USSR don't have the intellectual property law...and before the collapse, ex-USSR never have problem with it...
    2 .Patent has the Expires--many classics Weapon design Patent (especially the Small Arms) has expired(eg. 30 years limits)...eg. there are so many AR15 varients from so many firms in the USA market...

    and in China's case:
    1. China do copy some weapon. but China also buy the TOT in many cases....
    2. China would buy the TOT of some core tech, and use other home product as accessory system to redesign a new system
    3. some profit exchange between the Governments won't be published ,that's why some weapon's copy would be seen in China ,and China could sell it in the international market....but no official complaint or legal action against it...

    it's a complicated problem to explain...but our historical materials record the whole cause and effect well and unfortunatly all it's written in Chinese of course...it would be quite a hard work to explain to none-chinese readers although I have quite some official historical materials in hand...but in my introduction about china's weapon system, I would mention it if it is really a "COPY"....fact is the fact .... but you would also notice more and more china's new Weapon system are coming from the indigenous R&D teams...
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    in the past years ,the china's Arm Exporters began to establish a Universal Naming Convention for the Export weapon system instead of old names by the R&D teams or firms in private...

    Eg.under the Small arm catalogue

    CS/LR = sniper rifle/Rifle
    CS/LS = SMG
    ....

    another Naming Convention is set up by the Export Gaint --Norinco

    NQU-03 = N: Norinco (firm name), Q: Sniper Rifile , U: --???(unknown to me)
    NBZ-03 = N: Norinco , B: Rifile, Z: Full-Auto weapon

    QBZ-XX is some abbreviation under the PLA Universal Naming Convention.
    Q= small arms catalog
    B= rifle
    Z= Full Auto mode weapon
    XX= the year when the weapon is certificated

    we have QBZ81,QBZ95 and QBZ03 in this catalog...

    so QBZ won't be replaced, but if you mean QBZ95's replacement , the new improved varient--QBZ95-1 based on QBZ95 was Commissioned. the mass production has just begun for three-four years...

    the future PLA standard refile has some prototype appeared..but it's too early to say something about it.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2014
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