China Plays Bully

Discussion in 'West Asia & Africa' started by Defcon 1, Nov 10, 2011.

  1. Defcon 1

    Defcon 1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    It may have been part of India's long-term strategy to increase its maritime presence in regional waters, including the South China Sea, but the fact is that its decision to speed up it's Carrier Battle Group plan comprising aircraft carriers, guided missile destroyers and submarines to be deployed if need be is seen as an attempt to counter China's increasing aggression.

    That impression has grown stronger in the light of Beijing's recent caution to New Delhi to keep away from oil exploration in South China Sea (over which China has no proprietary rights) and a warning to Vietnam - which has entered into an agreement with India for this purpose — not to get involved with “hostile forces.” China has for long laid claim to the islands that dot the South China Sea, most notably Spratly Islands, because the region is immensely rich in natural resource, especially oil.

    On its part, India has maintained that the South China Sea is nobody’s property and that entering into an oil exploration deal with Vietnam is a sovereign decision. But it is unlikely that Beijing will be mollified by New Delhi’s clarification because it does not want others to share the resources that are waiting to be tapped. According to some estimates, the South China Sea could yeild up to some seven billion barrels of oil. This is estimated to be at least 80 percent the size of Saudi Arabia’s reserves. Hence, it comes as no surprise that China should be desperate to keep others, including India, Vietnam, Taiwan, Philippines, Brunei and Malaysia, from eyeing the South China Sea. But it's not just oil that is at stake here; the region straddles strategically important international trade routes. Which explains China’s reluctance to allow access to South China Sea to others. For similar reasons of global trade, the US, which otherwise has no direct stake in the South China Sea, is actively engaged in neutralising China's hold there by extending overt and covert support to countries in the region.

    While all accept that no country's claim to ownership is recognised by any major international body, China is not particularly bothered about the niceties of law. It has instead chosen to try and bully others into submission. With tensions escalating, China has increased the number of ships in its Navy’s South Sea Fleet and built a new naval base at Sanya on Hainan Island.

    These developments have directly contributed to Vietnam's purchase of six Kilo-class Russian conventional submarines to counter China's growing naval presence. The Philippines has hinted at increasing its naval capability and there are reports that it made its intention known to the China in the hope that Beijing will abandon its belligerent policy. Although the simmering dispute is unlikely to trigger an immediate arms race in the region, it has sparked nationalist outbursts, more so in China. On October 3, the Global Times, a Chinese state-owned newspaper, printed an editorial calling for war with Vietnam and Philippines in order to establish Beijing’s claim on the South China Sea. This may have been no more than sabre-rattling, but the editorial coupled with signals emanating from Beijing is believed to have instigated India and other countries to initiate talks with ASEAN countries from which China was excluded.

    Defence News - China Plays Bully
     
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  3. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    What is your take?
     
  4. Defcon 1

    Defcon 1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    i believe such activities by China could lead to formation of a new alliance in Asia Pacific lead by India primarily to counter China.....This is evident from the recent meetings between the defence chiefs of India and many pacific countries.....
     
  5. SPIEZ

    SPIEZ Senior Member Senior Member

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    Personally I don't feel the MoD has the SPINE for that.

    There was much ado about South-China sea, now nobody knows what's India's take going to be on that.

    There was talk of deepening defense relations with Vietnam which has a problems with China. We didn't even capitalise on the opportunity.

    Than there's another issue of Chinese companies including parts of Arunachal in Chinese maps, I understand the companies would be kicked out if they didn't. But what we do, buy those products, keep soft-talking.

    Also on the same lines we fail to recognise Tibet, and it's flag been asked to be removed from a movie when we house the exiled PM of Tibet.
     
  6. Defcon 1

    Defcon 1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    things are changing now...

    first thing, India has made it clear to China that the exploration pact with Vietnam will not be dissolved.....

    Also, military ties with Vietnam are moving in the right direction, the meeting took barely 15 days ago, you can't expect magical speed in these scenarios....

    Tibet and visa issues continue to be setback for India, but that is not related to naval scenario, we are trying our best to match china at sea....the continued development to Andaman base is a prime example.....
     
  7. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Interesting to say the least.

    And with what resources and what alliances?

    Could you amplify?
     
  8. Defcon 1

    Defcon 1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    i do not understand the question......I meant that the pacific countries will come closer on the security co-operation in order to match the Chinese navy, India could well play as their leader.....Also India be able to export some of its weapons to these countries which is evident from the fact that Vietnam and Malaysia are considering to buy Brahmos missile.....
     
  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    What I meant is what resources does India have to implement all this?

    Further, even though there is an Indian population in Malaysia, it is in the Class 4 strate and Malaysia is pro Pakistan compared to India.

    Are you aware that in their museum of Malaysian history, the fact that they were Hindus is obliterated?

    If you hear the commentary up watching KL in the Petrona Towers, you will hear why Malays turned Muslim because of the oppressive Hindu caste system!

    Indeed, India should sell Brhamos to them!
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2011
  10. Defcon 1

    Defcon 1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    why should India implement all the resources....India is not the only the country which is bound to suffer due to China's bullying......As the Pacific countries recognize the common security challenges they face, they will start coming to terms by themselves and need for a pacific alliance will become inevitable.......India does not need to implement anything artificially....Again, this is my personal opinion.......A guy asked for my take on the article.....
     
  11. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    If India does not find China as a bully, then who is finding China a bully?

    That is the first question.

    Vietnam is going into dialogue and Thailand wants a Chinese High Speed Railway.

    Malaysia won't dare because the Chinese control their economy.

    Anyone left, apart from Philippines?
     
  12. Defcon 1

    Defcon 1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    In my opinion, all the east asia countries are finding China a bully...

    Vietnam is going for a dialogue does not mean it feels very comfortable, If you read my posted article carefully, you will find that Vietnam has also bought six submarines from Russia...Dialogue is always the best option...But each country is building its military strength to match the chinese navy in future....This is very similar to India-China scenario where China is trying to surround India by a string of pearls, but at the same time, trying to increase the bilateral trade with India, Vietnam may go for the dialogue, but it will not forgo its claim on the disputed territories, neither will China, hence Vietnam and other countries will need partners to support them in future, which makes me feel that the East Asian countries will come closer on military co-operation..
     
  13. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    No one is comfortable with China.

    And yet some concrete action to show China its place seems to be missing!

    Let's focus on India.

    What has it done on the Chinese String of Pearls>

    Or its assistance to the Maoists?

    Or its regular intrusions?

    Or its slights at every drop of a hat?
     
  14. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    China does does not control our economy - or even Singapore. The Philippine-Chinese are even more influencial economically and politically within that country (90%+ control of their economy mainly lead by "Taipans") than our Chinese but look at how the Philippines is strongly pushing against China (talking about David and Goliath).
     
  15. SPIEZ

    SPIEZ Senior Member Senior Member

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    India doesn't need other countries to go to when they are being bullied. Some stern action the politico's would be more than enough.

    For that the only resource needed is a spine.
     
  16. SPIEZ

    SPIEZ Senior Member Senior Member

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    What is the condition of many Indian origin people there ?

    I heard it's worsening day by day. Also practice of other faith is arrestable ?
     
  17. Defcon 1

    Defcon 1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Ok, I will tell you some steps taken by India..

    India has reversed its policy of not developing roads along Chinese border...The previous policy was basically a defensive mindset aim at hindering a Chinese invasion, the current policy gives India an option of launching an offensive into Chinese territory..

    India has recently decided to add 90,000 soldiers to the deployment in north-east with two mountain warfare regiments.....

    4th Regiment of Brahmos missiles has been approved to be deployed in north-east....

    Indian pact with Bangladesh to allow indian vehicles to use Bangladeshi roads to move to NE is primarily targetted towards defense. The siliguri corridor, which connect NE with the rest of India, is at most 12 kilometers wide, hence there is an apprehension in the army that if China decides to invade north-east, it will cut off the Siliguri corridor, which will make it impossible to provide assistance to the defense forces....The pact with Bangladesh is supposed to take care of that.....

    India is increasing its presence in Maldives and it regularly stations its Dornier aircraft there for maritime surveillance in response to string of pearls...
     
  18. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    Maybe you should ask Mr. Fernandes. We all enjoy flying in his affordable mega carrier Air Asia. Next week I'll ride it to Hongkong.
     
  19. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    Who told you this? WE are proud of being the microcosm of Asia: "Malaysia truly Asia." First rule in product marketing, your ad must be truthful to your product. How can tourists from around the World continue to believe us when they see there is a major disconnect between what have been feed to them in media to realities on the ground?
     
  20. SPIEZ

    SPIEZ Senior Member Senior Member

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    I couldn't understand you, the question was what was the condition of people of Indian origin ?
     
  21. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    They're doing well. Mr. Tony Fernandes is the most promisnent ethnic Indian (civilian) as he is the owner of the biggest budget airline in Asia, Air Asia. You think he would reach the level of his success if he is hidng or oppressed in Malaysia?
     
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