China plans intercontinetal high speed railway to europe

Discussion in 'China' started by bengalraider, Mar 17, 2010.

  1. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    3,688
    Likes Received:
    2,173
    Location:
    in a fast food joint next to the imperial shipyard
    have to say this , if there is one nation on earth that has pulled impossible dreams out of the hat and implemented them no matter the practicality it is china.
    Waiting for the station in delhi so i can go to London for the weekend by train.
     
  2.  
  3. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,316
    Likes Received:
    3,888
    Location:
    Hyderabad
    They can dream about passing it through India.

    When there's an airlines industry that's 66% of completion overdue, and when there's a rising affluent class in India who prefer budget air travel to rail, HS rail is moot. It's going to take another 30 years before air travel saturates making way for HS rail.

    Look at US. When connecting its vast expanses can't be fulfilled by rail, and they still use airways, then China (a country with similar expanses) can't dream of having a sustainable HS rail network.

    High-speed rail isn't a bad means of transport per-say, but it's better suited for small countries (countries the size of South Korea, Japan, etc.,) where large volumes of people travel 100s of kilometres daily for work. It just isn't practical for bigger countries with airways around, and when fares are on par with air travel.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2010
  4. AkhandBharat

    AkhandBharat Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    78
    Location:
    Brokeland
    I doubt China's (or anyone's) intention in building the high speed rail is for ferrying passengers. It would be used mostly for transport of raw materials/finished goods within Eurasia to provide an alternate route for facilitating trade, in case the ship lanes are under blockade.
     
  5. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    20,546
    Likes Received:
    6,549
    with Xenophobia increasing in Europe is there any chance of this becoming a reality?? Many countries would have to give the ok to start and maintenance and transit fees,duties, and visas would all be separate issues as well as construction costs, is China going to pay for the whole construction??
     
  6. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Messages:
    9,252
    Likes Received:
    3,347
    Location:
    Brussels
    This proposal reminds me the very prestigious Berlin-Baghdad rail route constructed by Bismark i.e Germans during 1903 to 1940. It was a classic strategy at that time.

    Can't even imagine what dreams PRC is having iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii What they want to do? Acquire russia's energy resources?
    PRC politburo should wake up for the realities of 2010........



    >>>>>>
     
  7. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    10,397
    Likes Received:
    2,314
    Just looking at the map one can see that half of the railway lines are a non-starter. India will never go for it nor will Vietnam. Even if they did, that would put Chinese supply routes at severe risk in time of tension. The Central line CCP plans through Urumqi isn't going to make any money. Putting a rail line through Eastern Uzbekistan is just about as bad as putting one through Afghanistan. PLA will have to send an army just to protect its Central Asian routes. The only line with any merit is the one running through Russia. You only have to pay one transit fee before you get to Europe plus they have the raw materials to pay for it. The rest is just a pipe dream. No way you want to pay 10 countries transit fees before you hit Western Europe.
     
  8. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    4,957
    Likes Received:
    613
    Lanzhou-Urumqi highspeed railway in fact is already under construction now,when you are bigmouthing how bad it is.

    Chinese are always like "doing first" than "bigmouthing first".


    Lanxin High-Speed Railway, Lanzhou–Urumqi, 1776 km, longest HSR line under construction


     
  9. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    4,957
    Likes Received:
    613
    Possible routes on the proposed Beijing - Berlin high speed line.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    11,613
    Likes Received:
    5,670
    Seems very unsustainable unless all the countries involved will be onboard and take part in such a project. Even then it seems a long shot. You exactly don't need high speed lines just to ferry some goods.
     
  11. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,523
    Likes Received:
    1,547
    Glad that I locate my hometown on the map of rail network. From late April I'll be on that coastal inter-city line which takes 1-1.5hrs (distance 270km) from my home city to where I work.

    I'm hardly thrilled by that daydream of intercontinetal high speed railway to Europe since it involves too many countries who have never been in concensus. But I do feel excited about benefits HSR brings about for ordinary people's life.

    China - be the change u wish to see in the world!
     
  12. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    Messages:
    10,397
    Likes Received:
    2,314
    Pretty stupid decision by CCP. It makes a lovely target for Uighurs and Kirghiz Muslim extremists to attack. The profitability of such a route won't be made in passenger fares as there are too few and poor people to even consider it. Only people traveling that line will be Han businessmen looking for posh accommodations to their resource grabs. Europeans won't want to travel through Central Asia for security concerns.

    As I said, only route with viability is that through Russia but CCP starts the worst one first. [​IMG]
     
  13. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    4,957
    Likes Received:
    613

    has any your anticatpion of China works yet? none!
     
  14. xebex

    xebex Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Messages:
    536
    Likes Received:
    67
    Location:
    Exterminating an Emo means one low-life less!
    Using a high speed rail for every day life wont work as it is expensive just like airliners. But, if the high speed rail is to use as a replacement for Airliners, then I think there will be a huge potential for this project. For example, the huge amount of cargo it can carry across continents and nations and the number of passengers per trip will be many fold larger than that of Aircrafts. However, if the High speed rail is intended for common people, just like we Indians use Indian railway just to get to work, then am afraid, it will be a big failure as the cost of travel wont add up the the daily earning of Chinese. A thorough feasibility study needed to be done for such a mammoth project.
     
  15. gogbot

    gogbot Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    116
    You know when i first heard about China wanting a High speed line with India, i was very much agitated about it.
    Simply put There is too much mis-trust for some thing like that to happen.

    But now i am taking a step back.
    and looking at the big picture.

    A Eurasian High speed railway system stretching from the Atlantic to the Pacific.

    This project only reminds of the PAN American Highway.
    Stretching over two continents and linking well over half the worlds population.


    Now lets be honest here, we against this idea, only because it was China who proposed it.

    Had it been Russia, India , Germany or France. We would all still see it as a distant dream.
    But we wont exactly be against it.

    A HSR network of this scale has benefits. Especially with trade.

    Goods can be moved across the world largest land-mass much cheaper then before.

    I mean, we all talk about the future , but isn't projects like a global HSR exactly.

    Imagine being able to travel the length of Europe and Asia, in a train.

    For much less money then you would by air.

    I agree with you on the fright part.

    But projects like there are future planning.

    catering for the middle class rising not only in India and china but all over the developing world.

    And of course transport cost will eventually go down.

    If this is China's plan to market and make all there 10's of thousands of km of HSR . then their dreaming.

    but if this is their way of saying.

    Lets build a EurAsian High Speed Rail network. With each nation building its own system to be part of a larger network.
    Like the Pan-American Highway of the America's , then i don't see why we have to oppose such a plan.

    Lets give the idea some thought.
    It may seem un-feasible but so were many large engineering projects like this all through history.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2010
    J20! likes this.
  16. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    5,410
    Likes Received:
    971
    I think that's a fair assessment.

    What is the timeline on this proposed project? And how many corridoors extant?
     
  17. Minghegy

    Minghegy Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    387
    Likes Received:
    9
    China Invites Bulgaria to Join High-Speed Asia-Europe Rail with Turkey
    Business | October 28, 2010, Thursday


    A map of the northern China to Europe rail routes via Kazakhstan and Russia. China appears interested in developing a southern route as well, inviting Turkey and Bulgaria to join in it. Map by nigelnixon.com
    China has formally invited Bulgaria to join together with Turkey a project for a high-speed railway connection from the Far East to Europe.

    The invitation resulted from talks in Beijing between Bulgarian Transport Minister Alexander Tsvetkov and China's Minister of Transport Li Shenglin, Minister of Railways Liu Zhijun, and leading Chinese railway companies, the press service of the Bulgarian Transport Ministry announced.

    The Ministry said the Bulgarian government is going to take part in trilateral talks with China and Turkey on the high-speed China-Europe rail. After that, in December 2010, the three countries are expected to sign a trilateral cooperation agreement on freight rail services.

    The transport authorities of Bulgaria and China have also decided to set up a bilateral contact group "because there is a strong interest on part of China," the Transport Ministry announced.

    Tsvetkov also presented Bulgaria as a destination for investments in transport infrastructure to journalists from Radio China, Radio Beijing, and the English-language paper Economy Daily News.

    The news about China's luring Bulgaria into the high-speed Asia-Europe rail project comes after on Wednesday Tsvetkov invited his counterpart Li Shenglin on part of the People's Republic of China to consider investment opportunities in the field of transport and infrastructure.

    Bulgaria and China are considering setting up a joint venture for sea port infrastructure as well as offering concessions of Bulgarian sea and river ports to Chinese companies.

    "China is a first-rate partner of Bulgaria. Bulgaria is in the position to offer maximum good conditions to port operators. We believe that the Bulgarian ports can be attractive enough to compete with the routes of Central and Eastern Asia," Tsvetkov told Li Shenglin, as cited by the press service of the Transport Ministry.

    The visit of the Bulgarian government delegation in China comes in the wake of several months of intensive contacts between the Bulgarian government and Chinese central and provincial authorities as well as companies on various potential joint projects such as the Bozhurishte Industrial Zone near Sofia.

    Bulgaria's Economy Minister Traicho Traikov has stated several times that China was interest in receiving concessions over Bulgarian airport and ports in order to use them as a base for its exports to the EU and wider Europe.

    As soon as Transport Minister Tsvetkov's visit to China was first announced, the Bulgarian government made it clear it would focus on considering options for long-term cooperation between the Freight Directorate of the Bulgarian state railway company BDZ and Chinese railway operators in the context of China's project to launch a railway connection to Central and Western Europe through Central Asia, Turkey, and Bulgaria, the so called China-Europe high-speed rail link.


    Tags: railways, freight, concessions, port concession, airports, ports, BDZ, Alexander Tsvetkov, China, PRC, China-Europe rail link, turkey, Li Shenglin, Transport Minister, Transport Ministry

    http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=121602
    [​IMG]
     
  18. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    4,957
    Likes Received:
    613
    Lenin once said:
    " the imperial influence sphere extends wherever its railway-net extends!"
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2010
  19. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,711
    Likes Received:
    723
    Location:
    Bihar, BanGalore , India

    PARIS — When Prime Minister Wen Jiabao of China visited Athens last month, he came bearing gifts: billions of dollars worth of business deals and a wave of favorable attention from a crucial foreign investor.
    “The support of our Chinese friends is fortunate for us,” Greece’s minister of state, Haris Pamboukis, said by telephone.

    But China had much greater ambitions. Greece is one foothold for China’s broad, strategic push into Europe. It is snapping up assets depressed by the global financial crisis and becoming a significant partner of other hard-hit European nations.

    Ultimately, analysts say, Beijing hopes to achieve not just more business for its own companies, but also greater influence over the economic policies set in the power corridors of Brussels and Germany.

    “They are indicating a willingness to stick their nose into Europe’s business,” said Carl B. Weinberg, chief United States economist of High Frequency Economics.

    “It’s very clever and sends a clear message,” he added, “that China is a force to be contended with.”

    That message will be reinforced by a visit this week by China’s president, Hu Jintao, who is scheduled to meet with top officials and business executives of Portugal and France.

    Europe’s financial crisis this year has created buying opportunities for cash-rich investors, including secretive hedge funds and Qatar, the natural gas giant of the Persian Gulf that recently agreed to invest $5 billion in Greece. But China is leading the charge. It is singling out Greek, Spanish and other downgraded government debt, as well as ports, highways and industries in troubled countries on Europe’s eastern and southern edges.

    Ireland and Hungary, among others, are also competing to lure Chinese investments, in the hopes that they will create thousands of new jobs.

    “What is happening is that the Chinese are expanding in Europe as they did in Africa,” said François Godement, a senior policy fellow of the European Council on Foreign Relations. “But in Europe, they’re coming in through countries on the periphery, which is extraordinary.”

    China is concentrating its efforts on ports in Greece and Italy and highways that link Eastern Europe to Germany and Turkey, and aims to secure larger infrastructure investments over time. It has provided billions of dollars in state financing for key public works projects that support Chinese state-owned companies and Chinese workers.

    Such moves could give China a bigger presence in the European chain of distribution and production, while allowing it to build a track record of investments that it hopes will also encourage Europe to support its position on divisive currency issues and in trade disputes at the World Trade Organization.

    During his recent European tour, Mr. Wen reminded politicians in Brussels that China had acted as “a friend” to Greece, Spain, Italy and other troubled European countries in their darkest hour by buying bonds as other investors fled. In return, he admonished regional leaders not to “pressure China on the yuan’s appreciation,” referring to the Chinese currency, formally called the renminbi.

    In the past several months, China has pledged to buy Greek bonds when the government starts selling again, and purchased $625 billion in Spanish debt. On his visit, Mr. Wen hailed scores of business deals in Italy and Greece, including one that allows a Chinese state firm to run Greece’s top shipping port — one of the largest European gateways for Chinese goods.

    For China, plowing a small but growing share of its more than $2.3 trillion in foreign currency reserves into European investments instead of low-yielding United States Treasury bills helps diversify its portfolio. Beijing also hopes that this kind of push helps reduce the international political pressure to raise the value of its currency.

    “It’s not a coincidence that China is doing this,” said Jens Bastian, an economist at the Hellenic Foundation for European and Foreign Policy. “They have huge currency reserves, and these countries where they are going right now have a dying need for foreign investment.”

    While Chinese foreign direct investment in Europe is still small compared with its investments in other regions, it has grown quickly over the past two years. And this spring Europe overtook the United States as China’s largest trading partner.

    Struggling Ireland is also looking for a piece of the action, and moves are afoot to create an “investment gateway to Europe” for China in the town of Athlone, which hopes for the creation of thousands of jobs. Prime Minister Brian Cowen of Ireland said in June that China had vowed to be “as helpful as they can to a friend like Ireland in the difficult times that we have.”

    The investments also allow Beijing to advance the interests of Chinese companies as they go global. Mr. Wen last month talked up a $4.5 billion credit line that troubled Greek shipbuilders could tap — but almost exclusively to purchase Chinese-made ships. An additional $5 billion is flowing to Greek coffers from China’s state-run Cosco shipping company, which is leasing Piraeus, the port of Athens, to transform it from Europe’s largest passenger port to a much bigger hub for cargo, with aims to more than double traffic to 3.7 million containers in 2015.

    In Italy, Cosco is expanding the port of Naples, while HNA, a logistics, transportation and tourism group based in Hainan Province, China, is in talks to build a giant air terminal north of Rome for cargo arriving from China. Mr. Wen pledged an additional $100 billion in trade with Italy through 2015 and heralded 10 business deals between Chinese and Italian businesses.

    Some of China’s investments have already raised eyebrows. Last year, China outbid European companies to build a highway in Poland using a Chinese business and workers — with European subsidies — prompting Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany to call for reciprocity.

    In the coming decade, Europe will be considering numerous new projects, such as clearing the Danube River of wartime ordnance to use it as a transportation passageway; building railways between countries like Germany and Macedonia; and carving new highways from Germany to Turkey, Mr. Bastian said.

    “What Europe lacks is a transportation infrastructure network where Western and Eastern Europe meet,” he said. “This is where China is trying to take advantage of their current buildup.”

    Still, for all the fears of ulterior motives on China’s part, many Europeans welcome the investment with open arms. China is mainly interested in promoting trade and making money, said Mr. Pamboukis, the Greek minister of state.

    China’s investment strategy in Europe is “discreet and well thought-out,” he said. “I don’t think China is coming in here as a Trojan Horse.”
     
  20. seopackages

    seopackages New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    It seems highly unsustainable unless all countries participate in the council and to participate in this project. Even then, it seems that from a distance. Not only do not need high-speed lines only to transport goods.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2010
  21. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,007
    Likes Received:
    2,250


    Harbin-Hamburg cargo train links China, Russia, Germany
    Published on Jun 14, 2015, by New China TV
     

Share This Page