China Military News & Updates

Discussion in 'China' started by Skynet2, Mar 1, 2009.

  1. Skynet2

    Skynet2 New Member

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    hi...guys...i always feel china is the real threat to india rather than pakistan.....Nowadays Pak seems to be a deputy to china in its quest against India....China is superior to india economically and militarily...so wat should we do to protect India??
    I personally think piling up nuclear weapons and having atleast 4 SLBM capable nuke powered submarines along with MIRV capable ballistic missiles is the way....
     
    kumar.abinash183 likes this.
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  3. ahmedsid

    ahmedsid Top Gun Senior Member

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    China is a threat allright bro, But Even in Terms of Conventional weapons, India is not that far behind, and we are not overshadowed by them. If they knew we were conventionally weak, they would have tried a low voltage maneuver to take Arunachal Pradesh. They know we can give them a bloody nose and push them to where they came from anytime they indulge in any misadventure. This is not 1962, this is 2009 ;) We have an army capable of Defending India against any Threat, and Once our Modernisation programme gets underway, then China wont matter I feel. We will have the Edge soon.
     
  4. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    skynet2 sir the perception of threat needed to be viewed in a different light.
    in every field india seems to be involved in a tussle with china,the threat is more economic now than military. the chinese are very smart they wont get involved in a direct conflict they want to fight it out strategically so should we.
    mirv capabilites of indian missiles are still in developmental stage, 4 nuke subs is a long time off first of all we need to get control of our immediate neighbourhood where china is trying to spread its influence we need to regain their confidence and beat the chinese in their own trick by having a strategic relations with asean and the presence of a big number in the indian ocean.
     
  5. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    the bush nuke deal will help take care of China

    mpact of Indo-US Agreement on Indian Strategic Weapon program
    http://www.indiaresearch.org/Indo-USStrategicDeal.pdf

    Impact of Indo-US Agreement on Indian Strategic Weapon program:
    Will it make available more indigenous Uranium reserve for Indian Weapons Program?

    Introduction
    On July-18,2005 President Bush and Prime Minister Singh in a major breakthrough announced an agreement on ‘Global Strategic Partnership’ involving many sub-agreements, including civil nuclear energy cooperation, whose details were further agreed on March 2, 2006. The civil nuclear power cooperation envisages United States to remove sanctions legislated by US Congress in 1978 on nuclear fuel and power-plant technology, and work with US lead NSG to accommodate nuclear fuel supply for Indian civilian nuclear plants. India in turn will separate its strategic facilities from civilian facilities and put all current & future civilian nuclear power plants and facilities under site specific IAEA safeguards.

    Some opponents of this agreement have argued that India has small Uranium reserve thus letting India purchase nuclear fuel supply for civilian power plants from NSG will somehow help Indian nuclear weapons program by making available greater fraction of indigenous Uranium reserve for military nuclear weapons program.

    Assessment
    Let us look at facts to understand merit of this argument.

    1. Indian strategic nuclear weapons use approximately 3 Kg Plutonium.

    2. India has large un-safeguarded Plutonium stockpile (conservatively estimated to between 3,000 Kg and 6,000Kg), a fraction of that will suffice to make hundreds of nuclear weapons if India choose to exercise the option.

    3. Indian PHWR reactors that are outside IAEA safeguard when operated for efficient power generation would have cumulatively required just 5,842 tonnes. India is estimated to have mined about 9,200 tonnes of natural-uranium, indicating that about 55% of the fuel and 8% of its reactor capacity was used in low fuel burn mode, generally associated with operating the reactors in mode optimized to generate weapon grade Plutonium. This corresponds to about 2,400Kg weapon grade Plutonium enough for 800 strategic nuclear weapon.

    4. Current Indian reserves of uranium estimated between 77,500 – 94,000 metric tonnes, enough to support 12,000 MWe power generation for 50 yearsIII.

    5. Current Indian PHWR reactors that are outside IAEA safeguard annually require 116 tonnes of natural-uranium when operated in a mode optimized for power generation. When operated in a mode optimized to generate weapon-grade Plutonium they require just 747 tonnes of natural-uranium annually, in the process they generate 745 Kg weapon grade Plutonium, which is enough for 248 nuclear weapons per year.


    From above one can clearly see that there is no merit in the argument that US-India civilian nuclear agreement will be of any consequence to Indian nuclear weapons programs.

    Conclusion
    In conclusion the Indo-US agreement on civil nuclear reactors does not help Indian military program:

    1. India already has fissile material enough to make more than 800 warheads.
    2. Its Fast Breeder Reactors can generate limitless fissile material for weapons or civilian applications.
     
  6. yuchuanxi1987

    yuchuanxi1987 New Member

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    threat??

    Hi guys! But chinese dont think the real threat to China is India.It is US and Japan. So dont worry more abt china.:vehicle_plane:
     
  7. Atul

    Atul Founding Member

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    China Dreams to be a superpower some day, to achieve this goal it has already begun its journey.

    Ever Growing Submarine Force of China :
    Admiral Zhang led Chinese Navy’s submarine modernization program and oversaw the acquisition of four modern Russian-built KILO subs, including the stealthy Type-636. Orders for eight more are on the books, with the first new boats to be delivered soon. Russian shipyards are at work to fill China’s orders for new submarines.

    Admiral Zhang isn’t relying solely on the Russians. He has also increased production—to 2.5 boats per year—of China’s new, formidable Song-class diesel-electric submarine. China is also testing a new diesel-electric that the defense intelligence community has designated the “Yuan.” The Yuan is heavily inspired by Russian designs, including anechoic tile coatings and a super-quiet seven-blade screw. The addition of “air-independent propulsion,” which permits a submarine to operate underwater for up to 30 days on battery power, will make the Song and Yuan submarines virtually inaudible to existing U.S. surveillance networks—and even to U.S. subs.

    These new submarines will be more lethal when armed with Russian SKVAL (“Squall”) torpedoes, which can reach 200 knots. There are reports that the SKVAL is already operational on some Chinese subs. As well, Russia has also transferred the Novator 3M-54E three-stage anti-ship cruise missile to China’s submarine fleet for use against aircraft carriers. Each Chinese KILO is armed with four of these missiles.

    America’s Endangered Submarine Supremacy
    In February 2005, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld commented that the size of the Chinese fleet could surpass the United States Navy’s within a decade. “It is an issue that the department thinks about and is concerned about and is attentive to.” Indeed, the U.S. Navy will hold a series of major naval exercises in the Pacific this summer that will involve four aircraft carrier battle groups, including a carrier normally based on the U.S. East Coast. This will be the first time the Navy has deployed an Atlantic Fleet carrier to a Pacific exercise since the Vietnam War.

    However, there is little indication that the Pentagon is taking the Chinese submarine challenge seriously. If it were, the Quadrennial Defense Review (QDR) issued earlier this month would have recommended that the erosion of the U.S. submarine fleet come to an end.

    But the QDR envisions a “return to a steady-state production rate of two attack submarines per year not later than 2012 while achieving an average per-hull procurement cost objective of $2.0 billion.” This means that the U.S. sub fleet will continue to decline for another six years, during which time America’s industrial base for constructing subs will further diminish and the per-unit cost of submarines will jump past $2 billion, impelling further cuts in the fleet.

    Of the U.S. Pacific Fleet’s 35 submarines (including three nuclear attack submarines based in Guam during 2006), about a dozen are underway at sea on operational duties at any one time. Under the QDR’s most optimistic estimates, Pacific Command’s sub fleet will diminish to about 30 by 2025.

    Electric Boat (EB), the nation’s preeminent submarine contractor, has announced plans to lay off 900 of its 1,700 designers and marine draftsmen engineers over the next three years. This is a crisis. It will mark the first time in 50 years that the U.S. has not had a new submarine design on the drawing board. EB laid off nearly 200 submarine engineers and machinists in early February—and EB is the only shipbuilder in the nation that maintains submarine designers. As the build-rate for subs collapsed, EB used maintenance and repair work to pay designers’ salaries and maintain its staff of highly-skilled steelworkers. But without new orders, EB will lay off almost half of its workforce of over 5,000 over the next three years

    U.S. Navy combatant commanders already require 150 percent of the attack submarine days currently available, and these requirements will only increase as the submarine force dwindles. If the United States allows production to dwindle further, expertise will be lost and costs will skyrocket for any new classes of submarines contemplated for the post-2012 period.

    Meanwhile, China’s fleet of modern attack submarines is growing: China already has ten Song/Yuan/Kilo submarines in the Pacific today, over 50 older Ming-class and Romeo boats, five Han class nuclear attack submarines, and one Xia-class ballistic missile submarine. In addition, China has 25 new boats under contract now; 16 are under construction today, including a new class of nuclear attack submarine designated the Type-093 and a new nuclear ballistic missile sub, the Type-094.

    The U.S. has three submarines under construction today. Although the Navy’s new 30-year shipbuilding plan calls for 48 nuclear attack submarines in the fleet by 2035, the Navy’s top submarine commander, Vice Admiral Charles L. Munns, has testified before Congress that the Navy needs at least 54 boats to fulfill current critical missions. This number will rise as China’s navy expands.

    If the Navy does not start launching new subs at the rate of two per year until several years after 2012, the force would dip to a low of 40 in 2028, or 17 percent below the Navy’s stated needs. And that rate will not even permit the Navy to reach its sub-minimal target of 48 attack submarines until 2034. All of this assumes that the Navy does not decommission ships faster than expected due to expanded operations in coming years.

    China’s Intent

    The QDR addresses the question of China’s intent:

    Chinese military modernization has accelerated since the mid-to-late 1990s in response to central leadership demands to develop military options against Taiwan scenarios. The pace and scope of China’s military build-up already puts regional military balances at risk. China is likely to continue making large investments in high-end, asymmetric military capabilities, emphasizing electronic and cyber-warfare; counter-space operations; ballistic and cruise missiles; advanced integrated air defense systems; next generation torpedoes; advanced submarines; strategic nuclear strike from modern, sophisticated land and sea-based systems; and theater unmanned aerial vehicles…

    According to the MPPRC Report’s executive summary, China’s specific intent is to “build counters to third-party, including potential U.S., intervention in [Taiwan] Strait crises.” The report continues, “Deterring, defeating, or delaying foreign intervention ahead of Taiwan’s capitulation is integral to Beijing’s strategy.” To this end, China is expanding its “force of ballistic missiles (long-range and short-range), cruise missiles, submarines, advanced aircraft, and other modern systems.”

    China’s Sea-Power Goals
    If they are curious about China’s intent, Pentagon planners might look to comments by General Wen Zongren, Political Commissar of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army’s elite Academy of Military Science. The MPPRC Report quotes General Wen as asserting that China must “break” the “blockade [by] international forces against China’s maritime security… Only when we break this blockade shall we be able to talk about China’s rise… To rise suddenly, China must pass through oceans and go out of the oceans in its future development.” In fact, it is the explicit goal of the Chinese Communist Party to “increase the comprehensive strength of the nation.”

    The Chinese navy—and its submarine fleet, in particular—is a key tool in achieving that goal. The September 2004 promotion of Admiral Zhang Dingfa, a career submariner, to Chief of Staff of the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) and a full seat on the Central Military Commission was a clear signal of the primacy of submarine warfare in China’s strategy for the Asia-Pacific region.

    It is believed By 2025, China’s navy could rule the waves of the Pacific. By some estimates, Chinese attack submarines will outnumber U.S. submarines in the Pacific by five to one and Chinese nuclear ballistic missile submarines will prowl America’s Western littoral, each closely tailed by two U.S. attack submarines that have better things to do. The United States, meanwhile, will likely struggle to build enough submarines to meet this challenge.


    Recommendations :

    Just Imagining China Challenging The United States soon somewhere in a decade or two & the implications it will have on INDIA ( Pak being its close ally) to counter this threat INDIA must build at least two, new attack submarines per year.

    A more Potent & effective Anti-Submarine Warfare & Surveillance System needs to be developed with immediate effect.

    We also need Strategic Partners & Help ourselves along with them to Boost Fleets - Japan, Taiwan & South Korea can Play a Pivotal role.

    Remember Gentlemen, we are heading towards another World War, with the Chinese Pace Gaining momentum the ultimate war is not too long.
     
  8. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    India is not a threat to China but China is clearly acting against India. It wants a multipolar world but a unipolar Asia.

    All Asian countries need to make sure that does not become a reality. Especially countries like India, Japan, Korea, Australia etc.
     
  9. Skynet2

    Skynet2 New Member

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    China wants to rule the indian and the pacific oceans...To counter china effectively we need to form alliances...i think Japan Australia South Korea and Taiwan should be the countries india should be looking at. if china persists on its claim over AP we should start supporting the cause of Taiwan and should increase defense cooperation....The chinese constitution says that if Taiwan engages in a military pact with any other country then the chinese reserves the right to attack taiwan the next moment....Look how aggressive the chinese are??who r they to decide the foreign policy of another country???Also india should transfer the nuclear weapon technology to taiwan under covert operations just as they did to pakistan....India should round up china with India friendly countries...
     
  10. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    This is a good point but USA has to take the lead Hiliary clinton visited China
    I hope she stood her ground because chinese seem very happy a bout her visit and taiwan issues, we have defense pact with Japan, and I don't know how deep our relations are in this issue since most US and Indian military relations are covert. The Chinese may have written that but their hypocrisy in proliferating nukes to pakistan,iran and North korea should be good enough reasons for them to be KICKED OUT OF UN SECURITY COUNCIL. W e don't need to transfer any kind of nuclear technology immediately we can start by having pacts with other countries mentioned that they can use our land and we can use theirs for any war involving China, China first step to imperialism is their take over of taiwan when they try it they should be hit the hardest from every direction and stopped dead in their tracks right there.
     
  11. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    I am not sure if an open confrontational stance with China is the best approach for India. India should make sure that China understands that there are costs to antagonizing India.

    Actually China is a very insecure power. Their energy flow can be easily choked at multiple points. Same with their trade. Most of their effort is towards securing that and India just happens to come in the way of that.

    I don't think China is inimical to India the same way Pakistan is. It is just a matter of conflict of interest between two rising powers and the inevitable competition for the limited energy resources. Also the perception that India could be a threat in their goal of primacy in Asia.
     
  12. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Chinese are fighting a stealth proxy war against India 2 examples are arming pakistan with
    nukes and the string of pearls to encircle India,they are the ones who initiated this and
    payback hasn't been given for Tibet and Ladakh ;chinese insecurity can be solved by simple
    trade pacts ,non aggression agrements there are many things Chinese could do but they
    are inviting the confrontation and their arrogance may just get their faces
    smashed in.
     
  13. pyromaniac

    pyromaniac Founding Member

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    I dont mean to self promote or something but I did a thread on this in the Strategy section..Its called, a comparative analysis, china, pakistan and India. Check that out.

    Now, moving to the topic at hand, you are absolutely right, China is the real threat to Indian democracy. I think the Indian government is finally realizing that
     
  14. Skynet2

    Skynet2 New Member

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    Terrorist Website:Humble request to Computer geeks.

    Hi guys...i stumbled upon a terrorist website that in each and every word talks extremely bad about India and our people...I dont know why that website is not banned in India..U guys should definitely have a look at it..It is rupeenews.com
    Here are two articles for example..

    There is a very very bad article abt our Father of NAtion
    mod-link deleted
    I request every person in power to Block this website and to punish the creators using law or using our RAW...
    Also i request the computer geeks of our country to take down this site...
    (Please take ur time to do this atleast for Mahatma Gandhiji who lost his life for us....)
     
  15. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

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    A ranting from a semi-educated moron who thinks God is on his side... LOL !!!

    No need to send out a RAW hit squad after him... hahahahhahaha... I must say, he has a vivid imagination.... :D:D:D:D
     
  16. ahmedsid

    ahmedsid Top Gun Senior Member

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    Members Kindly Dont QUOTE Rupee News in Any of the Serious Defence/Issue Related Sections. If You Want You Can Post it in the General Section, Under the JOKE Thread. Rupee News is the Highest example of Yellow Journalism and Is Run by a Bunch of Attention Freaks, God Speed.
     
  17. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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  18. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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  19. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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  20. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    chinese nuclear facilities map

    [​IMG]
     
  21. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    pakistan nuclear facilities

    [​IMG]

    (see post one for Chinese assistance)
     

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