China May `Crash' anytime, Faber Says

badguy2000

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Investor Marc Faber said China's economy will slow and possibly "crash" within a year as declines in stock and commodity prices signal the nation's property bubble is set to burst.

The Shanghai Composite Index has failed to regain its 2009 high while industrial commodities and shares of Australian resource exporters are acting "heavy," Faber said. The opening of the World Expo in Shanghai last week is "not a particularly good omen," he said, citing a property bust and depression that followed the 1873 World Exhibition in Vienna.

"The market is telling you that something is not quite right," Faber, the publisher of the Gloom, Boom & Doom report, said in a Bloomberg Television interview in Hong Kong today. "The Chinese economy is going to slow down regardless. It is more likely that we will even have a crash sometime in the next nine to 12 months."

An index tracking Chinese stocks traded in Hong Kong dropped 1.8 percent today, the most in two weeks, after the central bank raised reserve requirements for the third time this year. The Shanghai Composite has slumped 12 percent this year, Asia's worst performer, as policy makers seek to rein in a lending boom that's spurred record gains in property prices. China's markets are shut for a holiday today.

Copper touched a seven-week low and BHP Billiton Ltd., the world's biggest mining company, fell the most since February on concern spending in the world's third-largest economy will slow and after Australia boosted taxes on commodities producers. Rio Tinto Ltd., the third-largest, slid as much as 6 percent.

Chanos, Rogoff
Faber joins hedge fund manager Jim Chanos and Harvard University's Kenneth Rogoff in warning of a crash in China.

China is "on a treadmill to hell" because it's hooked on property development for driving growth, Chanos said in an interview last month. As much as 60 percent of the country's gross domestic product relies on construction, he said. Rogoff said in February a debt-fueled bubble in China may trigger a regional recession within a decade.

The government has banned loans for third homes and raised mortgage rates and down-payment requirements for second-home purchases. Prices rose 11.7 percent across 70 cities in March from a year earlier, the most since data began in 2005.

The government has stopped short of raising interest rates to contain property prices. Within an hour of the central bank announcement on reserve ratios, Finance Minister Xie Xuren said that officials remained committed to expansionary policies to cement the nation's recovery.

Stocks 'Fully Priced'
The nation's economy grew 11.9 percent in the first quarter, the fastest pace in almost three years. The government projects gross domestic product growth for the year of about 8 percent.

The clampdown on property speculation may prompt investors to turn to the nation's stock market, Faber said. Still, shares are "fully priced" and Chinese investors may instead become "big buyers" of gold, he said.

BlackRock Inc. is among money managers reducing their holdings on Chinese stocks on expectations that economic growth has peaked. The BlackRock Emerging Markets Fund has widened its "underweight" position for China versus the MSCI Emerging Markets Index to about 7.5 percent from 4.6 percent at the end of March, the fund's London-based co-manager Dan Tubbs said.

Industrial & Commercial Bank of China Ltd., China Construction Bank Corp. and Bank of China Ltd, the nation's three largest banks, are trading near their lowest valuations on record as rising profits are eclipsed by concern bad loans will increase.

Local Governments
Citigroup Inc. warned in March that in a "worst case scenario," the non-performing loans of local-government investment vehicles, used to channel money to stimulus projects, could swell to 2.4 trillion yuan by 2011.

Housing prices nationwide may fall as much as 20 percent in the second half of the year on government measures to curb speculation, BNP Paribas said April 23. Under a stress test conducted by the Shanghai branch of the China Banking Regulatory Commission in February, local banks' ratio of delinquent mortgages would triple should home prices in the country's commercial center decline 10 percent.

Shanghai is projecting as many as 70 million visitors to the $44 billion World Expo, more than 10 times the number who traveled to the 2008 Beijing Olympics. More than 433,000 people visited the 5.3 square-kilometer (3.3 square-mile) park on its first weekend.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...rash-in-next-nine-months-marc-faber-says.html

BTW,the above article was published in early May,2010.

So, according to the article, China might "crash" anytime now.:thumb:

let's just wait and see the coming "crash" of CHina.....
 
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pmaitra

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^^ BadGuy2000, how reliable do you think the above predictions are? If they are true, in totality, or in part, why? If not, why?
 

Armand2REP

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Beijing March New House Prices Plunge 26.7% M/M
Monday, April 11, 2011

BEIJING (MNI) - Prices of new homes in China's capital plunged 26.7% month-on-month in March, the Beijing News reported Tuesday, citing data from the city's Housing and Urban-Rural Development Commission.

Average prices of newly-built houses in March fell 10.9% over the same month last year to CNY19,679 per square meter, marking the first year-on-year decline since September 2009.

Home purchases fell 50.9% y/y and 41.5% m/m, the newspaper said, citing an unidentified official from the Housing Commission as saying the falls point to the government's crackdown on speculation in the real estate market.

Beijing property prices rose 0.4% m/m in February, 0.8% in January and 0.2% in December, according to National Bureau of Statistics data.

The central government has launched several rounds of measures since last year designed to cool the housing market, though local government reliance on land sales to plug fiscal holes mean enforcement hasn't been uniform.


http://imarketnews.com/node/29203
 

badguy2000

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^^ BadGuy2000, how reliable do you think the above predictions are? If they are true, in totality, or in part, why? If not, why?
well, at least when it was published in early May,2010,many guys here like Mr Armand were quite ready to accept it excitely....

of course, I don't know what they think of it now......in fact , I really want to know what they want to do now.
 
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Armand2REP

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well, at least when it was published in early May,2010,many guys here like Mr Armand were quite ready to accept it....

of course, I don't know what they think of it now......in fact , I really want to know what they want to do now.
If Beijing is any indicator... the bubble is starting to burst.
 

badguy2000

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Beijing March New House Prices Plunge 26.7% M/M
Monday, April 11, 2011

BEIJING (MNI) - Prices of new homes in China's capital plunged 26.7% month-on-month in March, the Beijing News reported Tuesday, citing data from the city's Housing and Urban-Rural Development Commission.

Average prices of newly-built houses in March fell 10.9% over the same month last year to CNY19,679 per square meter, marking the first year-on-year decline since September 2009.

Home purchases fell 50.9% y/y and 41.5% m/m, the newspaper said, citing an unidentified official from the Housing Commission as saying the falls point to the government's crackdown on speculation in the real estate market.

Beijing property prices rose 0.4% m/m in February, 0.8% in January and 0.2% in December, according to National Bureau of Statistics data.

The central government has launched several rounds of measures since last year designed to cool the housing market, though local government reliance on land sales to plug fiscal holes mean enforcement hasn't been uniform.


http://imarketnews.com/node/29203
CCP top bosses declare that the boss of local CCP would be "punished",if the local house price were to keep rocketing.....
 

Armand2REP

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CCP top bosses declare that the boss of local CCP would be "punished",if the local house price were to keep rocketing.....
I really doubt if they meant to collapse housing prices 27% in 30 days. :pound:
 

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China's collapse is not imminent. Their internal markets are now big enough to countenance any large spending out of reserves in the events of crises. The younger generation has reported effective savings rates of close to 12% and consumer finance reforms have also spurred more consumption among younger Chinese. Wage growth has been in the high double digits and their fixed investment strategies, unlike Japan, are geared towards confidence-building and maintaining employment rolls. China will slow down however. Wage inflation is now a serious concern for low-end manufacturing companies, manifested in that, Foxconn, the of semiconductors to prefabricated chips, is mulling a $12 billion investment into Brazil as China no longer has a cheap labor pool.
 

badguy2000

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as usual, the coming-out of any "china-to-collaspe" always arouses lots of excitement among some people here.
 

badguy2000

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China's collapse is not imminent. Their internal markets are now big enough to countenance any large spending out of reserves in the events of crises. The younger generation has reported effective savings rates of close to 12% and consumer finance reforms have also spurred more consumption among younger Chinese. Wage growth has been in the high double digits and their fixed investment strategies, unlike Japan, are geared towards confidence-building and maintaining employment rolls. China will slow down however. Wage inflation is now a serious concern for low-end manufacturing companies, manifested in that, Foxconn, the of semiconductors to prefabricated chips, is mulling a $12 billion investment into Brazil as China no longer has a cheap labor pool.

the last word is the truth.

In the coming decade, CHina would have to mass-induct cheaper labour from poorer countries,such as southeast Asia and South Asia.

People would have more and more chance to see Indian workers,sncurity or other blue-collars in China....
 

SHASH2K2

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the last word is the truth.

In the coming decade, CHina would have to mass-induct cheaper labour from poorer countries,such as southeast Asia and South Asia.

People would have more and more chance to see Indian workers,sncurity or other blue-collars in China....
With such a huge population in china which still needs jobs and is below poverty line how good that step will be. it will leas to resentment among local masses. Also you forgot that bulk of manufacturing is done by MNC's . They would prefer to move out of China instead of importing labour into china.
 

pmaitra

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the last word is the truth.

In the coming decade, CHina would have to mass-induct cheaper labour from poorer countries,such as southeast Asia and South Asia.

People would have more and more chance to see Indian workers,sncurity or other blue-collars in China....
Interesting.

I'd really like India companies to setup shop in PRC, have the top bosses as Indians with a few Chinese, and the labour force from all over PRC, with special care given to the Tibetans w.r.t. employment and promotions as a matter of policy, in the lines of affirmative action.

This might piss some people off, but that is the way things work in many places. For example, the BMW Factory in Greer, South Carolina, has US workers for semi-skilled jobs, but most of the management are Germans.
 

badguy2000

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With such a huge population in china which still needs jobs and is below poverty line how good that step will be. it will leas to resentment among local masses. Also you forgot that bulk of manufacturing is done by MNC's . They would prefer to move out of China instead of importing labour into china.
guy, the move of supplying-chains is much more difficult than you think....besides, the move of infrastructure is impossible.

now, I am in Xiamen, a beautiful city for a business trip. I notice that almost all cleaning workers here are as old as the following pictures...obviously, no CHinese younth people are ready to accept such low-end jobs.
so what would happen if those old cleaning worker retire?...obviously, they would be repaced with the foreign labours from poorer countries....


case in CHina is that there is a shortage of "blue-collar" labours ,while there is a shortage of "white_collars" jobs.
So, the average salary of fresh college students are even less than the average salary of most blue-collar workers.

 
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SHASH2K2

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guy, the move of supplying-chains is much more difficult than you think....besides, the move of infrastructure is impossible.

now, I am in Xiamen, a beautiful city for a business trip. I notice that almost all cleaning workers here are as old as the following pictures...obviously, no CHinese younth people are ready to accept such low-end jobs.
so what would happen if those old cleaning worker retire?...obviously, they would be repaced with the foreign labours from poorer countries....

Nice logic . But I thought that we were talking about skilled and semi skilled workforce. Specially in manufacturing units. If you have lots of immigrants taking up the jobs public resentment is obvious . Its same for underdeveloped, developing and developed economies .

Regarding moving out of China . When they were able to move manufacturing units from USA or Europe to china whats so difficult in moving out of China. It will be done in a phased manner .
 

badguy2000

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Nice logic . But I thought that we were talking about skilled and semi skilled workforce. Specially in manufacturing units. If you have lots of immigrants taking up the jobs public resentment is obvious . Its same for underdeveloped, developing and developed economies .

Regarding moving out of China . When they were able to move manufacturing units from USA or Europe to china whats so difficult in moving out of China. It will be done in a phased manner .
of course those skilled or semi-skilled jobs would be kept for CHinese......foreign labours would be used mainly as 2D(dirty,dangerous) jobs such as security,waitors/waitress,construction workers ,babisitters and cleaning workers....


well, if you have a look into the forigen labours in Japan and Taiwan,you would know what is the role of foreign labours in PRC in one decade.
 

SHASH2K2

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of course those skilled or semi-skilled jobs would be kept for CHinese......foreign labours would be used mainly as 2D(dirty,dangerous) jobs such as security,waitors/waitress,construction workers ,babisitters and cleaning workers....


well, if you have a look into the forigen labours in Japan and Taiwan,you would know what is the role of foreign labours in PRC in one decade.
BG Japan and Taiwan have much bigger economy and smaller population. They donot have any option but to import foreigners to do low level jobs . Same goes to many european countries. In case of populous countries like India and china we have big economy but population is even bigger . China still has lots of unemployed people who need jobs despite such a rapid growth in economy.
 

badguy2000

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BG Japan and Taiwan have much bigger economy and smaller population. They donot have any option but to import foreigners to do low level jobs . Same goes to many european countries. In case of populous countries like India and china we have big economy but population is even bigger . China still has lots of unemployed people who need jobs despite such a rapid growth in economy.
it has nothing to do with population,but with the economy level.

when the economy of one country is developed enough, the shortage of low-end labours will appear always....
 

Armand2REP

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China PMI indicates manufacturing stagnating



Growth is anything over 50, below is decline. If the PMI follows annual trends, it is going to dip into contraction by July.
 

AOE

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The least that can be said for now is that Chinas growth is unsustainable from an economic perspective, they can't remain at 10% forever, and even then that amount of growth is overly-inflated.
 

badguy2000

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China PMI indicates manufacturing stagnating



Growth is anything over 50, below is decline. If the PMI follows annual trends, it is going to dip into contraction by July.
ok. Let's mark your reply and wait until July....I hope that you won't disaapear in July,just as Mr. Vlamdimir79 did.
 

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