China leaves 1962 military triumph's shadow behind

Discussion in 'China' started by Snuggy321, Oct 12, 2012.

  1. Snuggy321

    Snuggy321 Regular Member

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    Interesting read but never thought to see this from ToI

    BEIJING: It's not denial, and it's not amnesia, but the Chinese never gloat over the country's military triumph in the 1962 war with India.
    No one talks about the conflict here; there's no section of a museum, no memorials in China to display a sense of national bravado, and nothing like Tokyo's Yasukuni shrine.

    The Yasukuni shrine continues to embarrass the Chinese, who see in Japan's obsession for "war heroes" a glorification of "war criminals" involved in rape and massacre of innocent citizens after the southern city of Nanjing fell into the hands of the Japanese army in 1937. There has been no such attempt in China to embarrass India over the 1962 conflict.

    "China never wanted to humiliate India. It has been wrongly understood in India," said Janaki Ballabh, who came to Beijing as a copy editor with the Foreign Languages Press in 1956. "My Chinese friends feel sad that the two countries had to go to war. The war has not changed the love and respect that ordinary Chinese have for India," Ballabh said. Government experts sound almost apologetic about the war success and tend to explain it in ways that is hardly ever discussed in India. This is evident in several articles in Chinese journals through the past decades, including a recent one in the Global Times last June.

    "Then Chinese leader Mao Zedong believed the battle with India was also a political combat, and the real target was not Nehru but the US and the Soviets that had been plotting behind the scenes against China," wrote Hong Yuan, a deputy secretary-general and researcher with the Center of World Politics at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, in the Global Times.

    "As to Nehru, Mao wanted to wake him up from the superpowers' influence by giving him a heavy punch, so that he would come to his senses and end the war," Hong wrote, outlining the Chinese official version of history.

    Beijing prefers to blame the United States for the Dalai Lama's escape to India in 1959, and even the 1962 war with India. This was evident in a speech by Xuecheng Liu, a senior fellow at the China Institute of International Studies, during a workshop on 'Revisit Sino-Indian Border Dispute' at London's Westminster University in 2010.

    "The CIA-supported revolt in Tibet, India-embraced Dalai Lama, and India-hosted Tibetan Government-in-exile turned out to be one of the causes of the border war in 1962," Xuecheng said. "Then the China-India relationship dramatically moved toward hostility and confrontation from brotherhood and friendship and entered an era of cold war which lasted nearly two decades."

    The situation has changed and "China and India do not pose a threat to each other and their common interests far outweigh their differences," Xuecheng said, ending his speech with: "A good China-India relationship makes both winners while a confrontational one makes both losers."

    Similar refrain is heard in several speeches and articles by Chinese government officials and experts, who are trying to persuade both sides to move away from the shadow of history and take determined steps towards friendship. "The Sino-Indian border war was not only a special interaction of two ancient civilizations, but also an unfortunate tragedy between two formerly colonized and oppressed states," the Communist Party organ, People's Daily, said in an article by Li Hongmei in 2010.

    "Fortunately, the sober-minded people on both sides would prefer to avoid being dragged down by the past. Instead, they have been making every effort to achieve a reasonable and just settlement of the territory in dispute and turn to a broader cooperation gearing to future," the article said.

    China leaves 1962 military triumph's shadow behind - The Times of India
     
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  3. drkrn

    drkrn Senior Member Senior Member

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    its may be china is interested in normalizing ties with us.
     
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  4. rockdog

    rockdog Regular Member

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    1. Except military fans, no one talks about 1962 war.

    2. Most these kind of conflicts between nations in subcontinent, in fact created by British, like J&K conflict, McMahon line...

    3. Historically speaking, both nations never had war

    ...
     
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  5. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Even children in India know about it !

    1962 was Chinese aggression and the Brits have nothing to do with it

    Except for 1962 when the Chinese imperialists attacked peaceful India
     
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  6. mikhail

    mikhail Senior Member Senior Member

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    then please tell me mate why most of the chinese members here do chest thumbing on the "alleged" chinese victory in 1962.everytime there is an argument between a chinese and an Indian it ends up in the chest thumbing of the '62 conflict by the chini member!
     
  7. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Actually I agree with rockdog that no one really discusses much about the 62' war. In China, many people don't even know about it. I have interacted with many Chinese people, and I do know that most Chinese don't even know much about India. However, almost all Chinese are very very hostile to Japan.

    But I do not agree that we should blame the British. The British left long back and we are not little kids to fight because someone triggered us to.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
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  8. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    I don't see the quite often chest thumbing of the 62 conflict from Chinese!
    What I saw is that indian member usually use 63 conflict as an evidence of accusation that China is not trustfull!
     
  9. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    I read that article and found it to be a propaganda piece written by some Indians who have a rose-tinted view of the Chinese. What are we comparing the lack of Chinese bravado over 1962 to? To see if the Chinese truly ignore the war or are apologetic about it, we need to compare their reaction with other wars China got itself into.

    How do most Chinese view the 1979 Vietnam war? Or how about the border conflicts with the Soviets? Is there a lot of bravado by the Chinese over this? If not, maybe it just indicates that the common chinese person does not feel very strongly about small scale skirmishes unless they develop into a major war in which the whole country is affected.

    The PRC has fought numerous border skirmishes since 1949, while India has fought only 4 wars, three of them with the same country. Hence, the relative paucity probably creates a greater impression of any single conflict on the common Indian than it does on the common Chinese.
     
  10. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    first they feel apologetic then they wanted to give him a heavy punch - now - which one is it - or is it the usual equivocation - which is another word for ....ly.....g !


    well then they are sure doing it in a strange way ? transgressing the border weekly, laying claim to arunachal - ramming our boats in the tibetan lake , instigating pak against us , arming the north-eastern terrorist organizations

    can we call that normalizing ties ?

    china is 3 times the land mass ofindia but they cant relinquish a small piece of land ( aksai ) which is 0.03% of theri territory

    shows yu how much they care about friendship with india

    in the interest of good relations india has conceded larger territory to pak and some to bangla, but china cant do likewise even though the are much huger

    dont be deceived folks - once was already one time too many , please !
     
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  11. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    That is so true! When France pillaged China it was at insistence of British Allies. It wasn't really our war but theirs! So China in no way blames us. :thumb:
     
  12. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    One wonders if history can be forgotten, though with years going by, greater myths will be rolled out on both sides of the view - the so called 'sober' minded and the not so 'sober' minded in India.

    Neither can the ravages that India faced in the past of Mughal invasion, their rule or the British colonisation and their rule will be so easily forgotten.

    True that the animosity is fading, but then when issue flare up from time to time, 1962 gets reminded in the inner eye!
     
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  13. bose

    bose Senior Member Senior Member

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    Chinees as usual to there nature invaded Indian land with huge numerical superiority, when they anticipated re grouping of Indian forces and likely involvement of USA, Chineese ran away like a coward... You knew that it will be very difficult to hold on to the territory in NE...

    The damage has already been done... Indian will nor forget 62 nor will we forgive...
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Lesson from 1962: India must never lower its guard

    The 50th anniversary of the 1962 Sino-Indian border war should be an occasion to look to the future rather than commiserate about the past. It seems odd that the 50th anniversary appears to be generating more commentary and reminiscences than the earlier decadal anniversaries, despite the longer passage in time. Since time is said to be a great healer, why do the wounds of the past continue to fester?

    All history is viewed through the prism of our present. The 1962 war is no different. It has acquired a contemporary salience precisely because rising China looms larger on our radar screen than ever before. As the respective economic and military capabilities of India and China continue to expand outwards, beyond their frontiers, it is inevitable that they will bump against each other, particularly in Asia. This may sharpen the sense of rivalry between them. The 1962 border war becomes a metaphor for this competition and possible conflict.

    While this may be understandable, it is necessary to break out of this tendency to look at India-China relations narrowly through the military prism. This reduces the competitive dynamics to a numbers game, counting military capabilities and limits the possibilities for significant and substantive opportunities for collaboration, both in bilateral as well as multi-lateral context.

    A lesson of the 1962 war is that India must never let down its guard. It must deploy sufficient military and logistics capabilities to deter any 1962-style surprise attack. We are better prepared than ever before, but this is not a static. We need to have the ability to respond effectively as China upgrades its own capabilities and logistics in Tibet. We need to maintain our current edge in the maritime domain. Our recent Agni-V test and the development of submarine-based nuclear forces have imparted greater symmetry between Indian and Chinese nuclear deterrence capabilities. But it is important to locate these efforts in a broader strategy for managing India-China relations in all its dimensions.

    What are the elements of such a strategy? We must acknowledge that adversarial elements currently dominate in India-China relations. China will continue to constrain India through proxy powers such as Pakistan and through exploiting apprehensions our immediate neighbours have of Indian dominance. Our counter to this must be a better management of our own periphery, extending assurance where possible, giving our neighbours a stake in our own prosperity and leveraging the considerable cultural affinity we share with them. It is pointless bemoaning Chinese inroads in our neighbourhood, if we leave wide open spaces for them. After all, do we not try and leverage similar opportunities in China's neighbourhood — as we must?

    Beyond this, we should seek to expand possible convergences with China so that adversarial instincts on either side are contained and, in time, diminished in their intensity. Bilateral trade between the two sides has been growing rapidly, soon to cross the $75-billion mark. True, the trade balance remains heavily in China's favour, but that would matter less in a broader economic relationship that encouraged trade in services, in which India has strengths, and investment, where India could prove an attractive destination for Chinese capital. Over the past couple of decades, China's frenetic investment in infrastructure has left it, today, with a huge excess capacity in this sector. This coincides with our own requirements for infrastructure investment of a trillion US dollars over the next decade or so. Is a long-term strategic partnership with China in India's infrastructure development possible? There will be security concerns, particularly in certain strategic sectors such as high-end telecommunications or port development close to our naval bases. However, if India were to clearly define such sensitive areas, where foreign investment would be restricted, without being China-specific, there could be a vast area where Chinese capital and affordable equipment and technology could help realize India's own dream for building world-class infrastructure.

    On the political side, both India and China are emerging powers, with convergent interest in the reform of global governance and international institutions, so that their growing footprint and influence are acknowledged and they can participate more fully in decision-making in those institutions. The two countries have a long-standing record of working together effectively in WTO and climate change negotiations. In the G-20, there is now regular consultation and coordinated diplomacy in evidence on issues such as financial and banking reform and a restructuring of the Bretton Woods institutions. BRICS has emerged as another emerging countries' platform, where India and China can work together in pursuing collaborative projects such as the proposed BRICS Development Bank. These actions have remained ad hoc, without an overall framework of strategic cooperation. Fashioning such a framework together would strengthen each others' hand in shaking loose the entrenched practices of the Western-dominated economic order. It would also help in shaping the architecture of a new order that is more responsive to our interests.

    Any credible prospect for India-China relations to transcend their current adversarial character demands the mutually satisfactory resolution of the boundary issue between the two nations. The events of 1962 do hold lessons for India. An important factor which triggered the open hostilities was the revolt in Tibet in 1959, the escape of the Dalai Lama to India and the heightened Chinese concern over its threatened control over the newly-occupied territory. A border dispute which had hitherto spawned only small scale skirmishes became part of a larger threat to China's newly-defined territorial integrity. India failed to take measure of this change in Chinese threat perceptions. By the same token, it is likely that any prospect for a border settlement may well be linked to what happens in Tibet, which remains a region of ethnic tensions and potential large-scale violence. An Indian strategy for seeking an early resolution of the border may need to include some understanding with China over managing the issue of Tibet. There are signs that China is beginning to acknowledge that its twin policy of material inducement and political repression have failed to diminish Tibet's cultural and ethnic identity. There is growing restiveness among Tibetan youth both on the Chinese and the Indian side. India could play a role in encouraging a more accommodating Chinese polity towards Tibet and conveying what is obvious to any objective observer that His Holiness the Dalai Lama may offer the best and perhaps the only prospect for reconciliation of Chinese sovereignty with the Tibetan people's deep rooted attachment to their unique culture and religious values. This was tried before in the early 1980s, inspired by a more far-sighted Chinese leader, Hu Yaobang. It achieved positive results, including the commencement of a dialogue between HHDL's personal representatives and the Chinese government. The senior most Chinese leader at the time, Deng Xiaoping, reportedly expressed his willingness to consider all issues other than Tibetan independence in these talks. This phase was short-lived and after Hu Yaobang's departure, the old repressive polices came back with renewed rigour. With a major leadership transition underway in China, it may be worthwhile for India to explore whether the time is ripe to engage in a discreet dialogue over Tibet and thereby set the stage for a border settlement. The psychic charge that the 1962 war continues to generate to this day in India may then finally begin to lose its intensity in our collective consciousness.

    (Shyam Saran is a former Foreign Secretary. He is currently Chairman, RIS and Senior Fellow, CPR.)


    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ever-lower-its-guard/articleshow/16760000.cms
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2012
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  15. arya

    arya Senior Member Senior Member

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    well here few people want to live in dream

    china is nit like India they know how and when they have to act

    let those sleep whose dont want to wake up
     
  16. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    SIno-Vietnam war is barely mentioned in Chinese history text-book at all. At least according to my memory, I didn't read anything about that war from Chinese history text books. I was under the impression that Vietnam and China were still communist buddies until I went to high school and read something from internet.
     
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