China incapable of mass producing SCB turbofans

[Armand2REP]

Why China’s first stealth fighter was rushed into service with inferior engines

Problems encountered in development of new WS-15 engine mean PLA Air Force’s first J-20s are not so stealthy at supersonic speeds

“The WS-15 engine designed for the J-20 exploded during a ground running test in 2015,” one source said, adding that no one was injured in the accident.

“The explosion indicated the WS-15 is not reliable, and so far there is no fundamental solution to overcome such a problem …

The explosion was confirmed by another source close to the military, who said the reasons it happened were complicated, with one being the quality control of its single-crystal turbine blades . . .

“Chinese technicians are able to produce cutting-edge-quality single-crystal turbine blades when concentrating on a specific single item,” the second military source said.“But they’ve still failed to turn the advanced technology into a standard product for mass production. It’s a bottleneck problem that needs more time to overcome after countless experiments and tests, based on Western experiences.”

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

 

[badguy2000]

it took china 10 years to.mature ws10,after the design of ws10 was finalized .

it is not surprising for china to take another 10 years to mature ws15.
the developement of engine is a accumulation of time ,industry chains and fund .

since china has all,it is just a matter of time to finish ws15.

and,it is reported that the last version of ws10(ws10 ipe) is eough to have j20 supersonic cruize,before ws15 gets mature.

 

[badguy2000]

btw,china could produce CRB (singlecrystal blades) long ago,and is supplying CRB to europe .

but ws15 needs new generation CRB, which is still under developement.

 

[Armand2REP]

@badguy2000 I guess you missed the point. China can make quality SCB, but it cannot mass produce it. That is the real reason you still buy old engines from Russia and only have prototype engines that get switched back to AL-31F for mass production.

 

[badguy2000]

@badguy2000 I guess you missed the point. China can make quality SCB, but it cannot mass produce it. That is the real reason you still buy old engines from Russia and only have prototype engines that get switched back to AL-31F for mass production.

china has developed several generations of CRB . some of them are mature and are massproduceed for europe.

what can not be massproduced is the one for ws15.

 

[Armand2REP]

china has developed several generations of CRB . some of them are mature and are massproduceed for europe.

what can not be massproduced is the one for ws15.

Europe does not use Chinese SCB. China does not even use Chinese SCB. That is why you buy French engines for your airliners and Russian engines for your air forces. If you could mass produce even a basic SCB you could at least replace D-30 turbines that operate at much lower heat.

 

[badguy2000]

Europe does not use Chinese SCB. China does not even use Chinese SCB. That is why you buy French engines for your airliners and Russian engines for your air forces. If you could mass produce even a basic SCB you could at least replace D-30 turbines that operate at much lower heat.

well,china has been exporting all kinds of engine blades to europe for long time.

china~made ones were USUALLY not as advanced as europe~made ones,but were still good enough and much cheaper.

for better costperformance,europe
started importing blades from china long ago.(in fact,europe imports not only blades,but also many components of airbus from china).


of course,case seems has changed much.

one hongkong paper reports that last year germany decided to import the tech of engine blade from china. that means that tech of china blades might gradually caught up and even lead ahead of europe in some features.

 

[badguy2000]

http://mil.sina.cn/?sa=t134d321973v76&from=wap
20世纪80年代初，中航工业航材院在国内率先开始了单晶合金及叶片技术的研究，首先研制成功了我国的第一代单晶高温合金DD 3。90年代又研制成功了综合性能优异的第二代单晶高温合金DD6，该合金拉伸、持久、蠕变、疲劳、抗氧化及耐热腐蚀性能等达到甚至部分超过了国外广泛应用的第二代单晶合金的性能水平。自20世纪80年代中期研制成功我国第一件单晶空心涡轮叶片以来，中航工业航材院为多种型号先进航空发动机提供了数万件单晶叶片，某些装配单晶涡轮叶片的发动机已翱翔于蓝天。


china finished developing its first generation CRB in mid~1980s.

 

[Armand2REP]

well,china has been exporting all kinds of engine blades to europe for long time.

china~made ones were USUALLY not as good as europe does,but were still good enough and much cheaper.

for better costperformance,europe
imported blades from china for long times.

You keep saying that but never mention what engines use those blades. Europe has a commission called EASA that would never allow low quality blades to enter its aviation products.

of course,case seems has changed much.

When did it ever happen? It certainly hasn't happened in the last 20 years.

one hongkong paper reports that last year germany decided to import the tech of engine blade from china. that means that tech of china blades might gradually caught up and even lead ahead of europe in some aspects.

one HK station showed a video of a crashing airliner that was scrubbed and later reported as a Y-8. no one in Germany is importing any Chinese blades. Germany makes the blades for the Eurofighter.

 

[Armand2REP]

http://mil.sina.cn/?sa=t134d321973v76&from=wap
20世纪80年代初，中航工业航材院在国内率先开始了单晶合金及叶片技术的研究，首先研制成功了我国的第一代单晶高温合金DD 3。90年代又研制成功了综合性能优异的第二代单晶高温合金DD6，该合金拉伸、持久、蠕变、疲劳、抗氧化及耐热腐蚀性能等达到甚至部分超过了国外广泛应用的第二代单晶合金的性能水平。自20世纪80年代中期研制成功我国第一件单晶空心涡轮叶片以来，中航工业航材院为多种型号先进航空发动机提供了数万件单晶叶片，某些装配单晶涡轮叶片的发动机已翱翔于蓝天。


china finished developing its first generation CRB in mid~1980s.

That doesn't have anything to do with mass production. We already know you can make it one at a time.

 

[badguy2000]

That doesn't have anything to do with mass production. We already know you can make it one at a time.

it says that thousands of CRB had been supllied since the first generation CRB was developed in mid 1980s.

 

[badguy2000]

You keep saying that but never mention what engines use those blades. Europe has a commission called EASA that would never allow low quality blades to enter its aviation products.



When did it ever happen? It certainly hasn't happened in the last 20 years.



one HK station showed a video of a crashing airliner that was scrubbed and later reported as a Y-8. no one in Germany is importing any Chinese blades. Germany makes the blades for the Eurofighter.

just google china+germany+engine

 

[Armand2REP]

it says that thousands of CRB had been supllied since the first generation CRB was developed in mid 1980s.

It says PWA1480 and ReneN4 have been widely used in engines all over the world. PWA1480 was invented by Pratt & Whitney, ReneN4 was a GE product. China didn't supply anything.

 

[Armand2REP]

just google china+germany+engine

You mean the scientist that refuses to be named, the German company that is not listed and doesn't even have a proposal drafted?

 

[badguy2000]

You mean the scientist that refuses to be named, the German company that is not listed and doesn't even have a proposal drafted?

well,hongkong news is consistent with information on CD.

anyhow,it indeed renews you idea ,doesn't it?

your disablity to read chinese limits your learning what happens in china.

the second~hand english information can hardly give your a complete truth about china.

 

[Armand2REP]

well,hongkong news is consistent with information on CD.

anyhow,it indeed renews you idea ,doesn't it?

your disablity to read chinese limits your learning what happens in china.

the second~hand english information can hardly give your a complete truth about china.

Apparently I read Chinese better than you do if you think that link you provided says China supplied SCB to Europe.

 

[rockdog]

China in talks for sale of jet engine technology to Germany
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/china-talks-sale-jet-engine-133344775.html

China’s jet engine technology around the level of Germany
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2018/01/chinas-jet-engine-technology-around-the-level-of-germany.html

 

[Armand2REP]

China in talks for sale of jet engine technology to Germany
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/china-talks-sale-jet-engine-133344775.html

China’s jet engine technology around the level of Germany
https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2018/01/chinas-jet-engine-technology-around-the-level-of-germany.html

The scientist, who is involved in the negotiations, asked not to be named because of the sensitivity of the matter...

The scientist asked that the government and business bodies involved not be named because the negotiations were still in their initial stage... would visit Berlin early this year to draft an export proposal (that has not been drafted)

The German embassy in Beijing did not respond to a request for comment...

Mainland immigrant conspired to smuggle Reaper drone and fighter jet engines to China, US jury finds

____________________________

It sounds like much of nothing.

 

[rockdog]

The scientist, who is involved in the negotiations, asked not to be named because of the sensitivity of the matter...

The scientist asked that the government and business bodies involved not be named because the negotiations were still in their initial stage... would visit Berlin early this year to draft an export proposal (that has not been drafted)

The German embassy in Beijing did not respond to a request for comment...

Mainland immigrant conspired to smuggle Reaper drone and fighter jet engines to China, US jury finds

____________________________

It sounds like much of nothing.

You still try to mislead the thread, the news i post was about the turbofan industry and even more sub components exporting, but yours were about some spy game, any connection? I think you are quite off topic.

 

[Armand2REP]

You still try to mislead the thread, the news i post was about the turbofan industry and even more sub components exporting, but yours were about some spy game, any connection? I think you are quite off topic.

You are trying to prove badguy's sale of SCB technology to Germany. I am showing it is bunk. The topic is China's SCB technology so how is it off topic?