China has military presence in Gilgit-Baltistan (PoK)

Tshering22

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I think we should start raising the Balochistan issue at the international level. We have better capability and finances to do that practically too. Kashmir is not Pakistani property to barter away and it shows the spinelessness of Indian government for their inability to take it back.
 

The Messiah

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We should have taken back pok decades back....spineless govt without any national pride.
 

ganesh177

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In indian kashmir, even we indian citizens have no freedom to do anything. But in POK even the chinese are laying down international project to sserve their national interests.
And where is the damn azadi of kashmir when it is raped by pakistan and china for the strategic politics ?

what is spineless kangress doing to stop such projects in disputed areas ?
 
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ahmedsid

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What could Pakistan or China do to India we started to build dams and other projects in Kashmir and Arunachal Pradesh? NOTHING! They could just cry Disputed area!!! We can do the same thing only! Otherwise, taking back, War is the only option! Are you all ready to go to the front and Fight For India, rather than asking, why govt is not taking back POK? Sitting behind a Keyboard is very easy! Global Politics and Strategic Balance, is a whole different game My Dears! God Speed
 

ronkpa

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What could Pakistan or China do to India we started to build dams and other projects in Kashmir and Arunachal Pradesh? NOTHING! They could just cry Disputed area!!! We can do the same thing only! Otherwise, taking back, War is the only option! Are you all ready to go to the front and Fight For India, rather than asking, why govt is not taking back POK? Sitting behind a Keyboard is very easy! Global Politics and Strategic Balance, is a whole different game My Dears! God Speed
very succinctly summed up my brother! but the need of the hour is to spread awareness about these issues among our countrymen,our brethren. beacuse we can talk about these issues for eons and nothing's gonna happen for sure! :) and ur right typing away is easier than the ground reality but atleast someone is doing is something! that should be the point! dont u think so?
 

A.V.

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once POK is on barter any kind of agreement on water share becomes null and void so whats the result nuke war is india , pakistan or china ready to turn back to stone age because there is no winner in a nuke war all 3 will die together

once you stop water supply into pak whole of pak will turn into a desert and civil war will break the provinces even jehadis wont get the support what common man cares is a bread.
 

Tshering22

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What could Pakistan or China do to India we started to build dams and other projects in Kashmir and Arunachal Pradesh? NOTHING! They could just cry Disputed area!!! We can do the same thing only! Otherwise, taking back, War is the only option! Are you all ready to go to the front and Fight For India, rather than asking, why govt is not taking back POK? Sitting behind a Keyboard is very easy! Global Politics and Strategic Balance, is a whole different game My Dears! God Speed
We pay Taxes to the government so that it should use them to make sure our territories are not taken away. That is why it has the world's second largest army 4th largest AF and 5th largest Navy for. We're sitting here and talking like this because our hard-earned tax money goes for this. It is our right to demand back from government what is stolen territory of ours by an enemy. We're all keyboard warriors but there are already soldiers out there that are perhaps not equipped with lethal enough weapons and that is why the government is not in a belligerent mood to take back; because all money for defence is eaten up by government officials and military top brass.

As Indian citizens we have every right to demand war. When a situation like 26/11 made the mighty so-called government of our country kneel before Pakistan and not resort to a military solution, it was our image that went down the drains and proved one and only one thing: Congress is an enemy-appeasing, soft-on-terror, spineless and shameless government with no sense of national pride other than using Nehru and Gandhi for party propaganda. With this for of coward government structure I won't be surprised if tomorrow Maldives starts claiming Kerala or Bangladesh, West Bengal.

And by the way, my first cousins are in the military already so I and many others who's brothers, fathers, uncles or even themselves are in the military. When nation is at stake, we're ready to go to war. In the 1962 invasion of Chinese, we Sikkimese saw the face of our enemy first before any other part of the country alongside Arunachalis. So we have no emotions or mercy for our enemies and we're ready to be inhumane and barbaric towards them. This might not have been recorded but Sikkimese civilians have also tackled soldiers and attacked them with mere Daos (a khukri-like blade from Assam and our regions)
 

ahmedsid

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Yes, Once China Takes over these parts, I am sure India will not Sit Quiet. Our Politicians maybe corrupt, our System maybe inept, but trust me, When a problem arises, we stick as One and face it!

Like AV Said, Water will be an Issue, and Water will be a weapon of Choice for India!

@Ronkpa- Bro, typing is good, letting people know is good, but blaming the Government for this matter is Silly. Yes, we should have taken back POK before, but there are larger implications. For Eg: If we tried to take back POK in 71, it would have led to WW3, because USA would have left Bangladesh be formed, but on the West, if Pakistan was to loose Kashmir, then USA wouldnt let that go by simply. It would be a quagmire. So when people type out simply, they should think, and see!
 

ahmedsid

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Tshering, you have a point at places, but if you blame this current government for not taking action or WAR, when 26/11 happened, then you should blame the previous governments who danced when Parliament was attacked and Terrorists were Delivered First Class to Afghanistan!

Armies are there, but they are not to fight wars at the drop of a hat! You cant start a war just like that and hope to Win! Pakistan or China are not your neighbourhood bully who can be thrashed easily! They too have an Army, Airforce and Navy! Remember that! When you fight, fight to Win! Not for the sake of it!!

We have Lethal weapons all right. All the people saying Agni5 will never be revealed can eat their words, because today our Defence Minister Revealed that its ready for testing! A Lot happens, but do care to listen, Think!!
 

hungo

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IMO PoK has become trapped in a political quagmire.Current status quo will remain for a long time.
At this point India can only do is to keep an eye on the region and hope for the right opportunity.Keep any Chinese presence under a hawks eye and hope no one like Morarji desai crops up again.
 

ronkpa

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And by the way, my first cousins are in the military already so I and many others who's brothers, fathers, uncles or even themselves are in the military. When nation is at stake, we're ready to go to war. In the 1962 invasion of Chinese, we Sikkimese saw the face of our enemy first before any other part of the country alongside Arunachalis. So we have no emotions or mercy for our enemies and we're ready to be inhumane and barbaric towards them. This might not have been recorded but Sikkimese civilians have also tackled soldiers and attacked them with mere Daos (a khukri-like blade from Assam and our regions)
well tshering,i understand what ur feeling! i have lost loved ones,my dad was in QRT(quick reaction team) of MCF(marine commando force),we lost him in anantnag! my first cousin laid down his life in kargil conflict,multiple gunshot wunds in the drass sector and now my younger brother is in SPG,serving a former primeminister's family,he was drafted from the NSG( :) though i personally dislike using the best SF operators on guarding corrupt ex pm's,but thats a personal view! not taking into account the other factors!)
i too have served the army proudly,passed out from IMA,was in 11 paras,got an early discharge cos of an incident rendering me disabled.not to mention being in the forces is a tradition in my family and kin,which iam proud of! iam not saying all this just for the sake of bragging,but the underlying point is i have seen the action,both as an operator and as an observer,and i think as ahmedsid has rightly said that the need of the hour is not to be headstrong but to take a pragmatic approach,as outright war will only lead to wastage of resources and lives,it'll lead to a quagmire given the current global geopoitical situation! and tshering u were right,maybe our government has made blunders in the past but the need of the hour is to not ponder oer past follies but to find a practical solution to the issue in hand!
 

ajtr

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Chinese army in control of much of Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, says expert


The storm over China's denial of a visa to an Indian general serving in Jammu & Kashmir may be only a "diversionary sideshow" compared to another far more serious development — the "effective control" by the Chinese army of large swathes of Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK), strategic analysts told DNA.

"A large tract of territory in PoK is now under the effective control of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA)," a Singapore-based analyst who returned recently from Afghanistan said on the condition of anonymity.

The development holds "enormous significance" for India's security interests on its north-western border, far more than the "storm in a Chinese tea-cup" over China's denial of a visa to Lt-Gen BS Jaswal, he added.

Indian officials say they are aware of the presence of Chinese troops in PoK. An external affairs ministry spokesperson told DNA on Friday: "We are aware of the activities in PoK.We have categorically stated that the entire state of Jammu & Kashmir is a part of India and any activity should take place with our permission."

Asked if the government was specifically aware of the presence of the Chinese army and other agencies in building roads, he said: "We are aware of it and we have made our views known."

Asked about the Chinese response, he added, "We have made our position clear and the Chinese are aware of it."

The denial of visa, on the ground that Jaswal was in operational command of Jammu & Kashmir, which China considers disputed territory, provoked a strong response from India on Friday.

The Chinese ambassador was called to the foreign ministry and visas denied to some Chinese military personnel. Demarches were also sent to Beijing to protest the denial of a visa to Lt Gen Jaswal.

China has in the past circulated maps depicting Kashmir as a 'country' separate from India, and controversially granted stapled visas to travellers from the state.

Some analysts point out that China's latest provocation comes amidst increasing signs of Chinese assertiveness on other frontiers. "It's difficult to say how this decision was made by China's intricate bureaucracy, but it comes at a time when Beijing is flexing its muscle in various territorial disputes," reasons Jonathan Holslag, research fellow at the Brussels Institute of Contemporary China Studies and author of China and India: Prospects for Peace.

"Clearly, China has upped the stakes in the conflict over Arunachal Pradesh, but now Kashmir too is rising again to prominence as a bargaining chip and a crucial strategic corridor," Holslag noted. China, he added, is "increasingly visible in all kinds of construction and water management projects" in PoK.

Other analysts see China's pin-pricks vis-a-vis Kashmir and its on-the-ground activities in Pakistan as part of a strategy to keep India preoccupied with its western border, and away from China.

"China's consistent strategy for more than a decade has been to keep India distracted towards the north," says John Lee, a foreign-policy research fellow at the Sydney-based Centre for Independent Studies and a visiting fellow at the Hudson Institute.

Lee reckons that the visa denial may be tied to a "perception within Chinese strategic circles that India did not respond positively to China's 'soft' approach of recent years - and, on the contrary, strengthened strategic relations with the US and with countries in South East Asia."

Chinese strategic circles are pitching for a "hardening" of China's relationship with India "because they believe they don't have much to lose, given what's happened in the last few years."

China believes India is becoming much more assertive strategically in south-east Asia, he adds.
Prof Dibyesh Anand of the University of Westminster in London points out that in recent years there has been a strident articulation of China's "core national interests", and the "change of tack in Kashmir" - if confirmed as official policy - could be "part of this assertion".India, adds Anand, should seek clarification not only on the denial of the general's visa but on China's position on Jammu & Kashmir.

"When China insists that India repeatedly iterate its recognition of the Tibet Autonomous Region as part of China, there's no reason why India cannot seek a similar clarification." And if, he adds, China views the entire Jammu & Kashmir as disputed territory, "India needs to rethink its entire China policy - because this will clearly be an interference in India's internal affairs and in bilateral relations with Pakistan."

But looking beyond the latest episode, Anand says that a resolution of the Sino-Indian border dispute is critical. "Cooperative relations between the two countries will not count for much so long as the border dispute is alive." And, in his estimation, the border dispute is "not only about strategic priorities but more importantly about nationalist narratives." In these narratives, China sees India as an "irritant, a country willing to work with the US to harm China." India, on the other hand, sees China as "untrustworthy and working closely with Pakistan."

And Indian and Chinese leaders, says Anand, "have shown no interest in changing these nationalist narratives."

Holslag believes that "as much as China is struggling with a growing sense of strategic claustrophobia, other powers are fretting about what they perceive as China's growing assertiveness." These security dilemmas, he adds, "will become more pressing in a region where balances of power alter rapidly, especially when territorial interests are at stake."

As for India's response to the latest provocation, "escalation management is the key," says Holslag. India, he notes, has responded "proportionately by blocking a few visits, while keeping most military exchanges on track." But with continued "wrangling over Pakistan, proliferating trade disputes, hardening positions in border negotiations, and growing nationalism," Sino-Indian relations will become "increasingly difficult to manage," he reckons.
 

The Messiah

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If the chinese knew we were serious about pok and would not let it go then they would think twice before setting foot in any part of kashmir.

As far as chinese are concerned we only speak big and do nothing. China dont have balls to fight war with India now...if we become more stern they'll go back into there hole.
 

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Chinese presence in PoK will give the leverage to India to shout about the Chinese occupation of disputed land in the international forums. And if any war breaks out in future, it gives a reason for India to go after them and get back PoK into India in the process.
 

The Messiah

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Chinese presence in PoK will give the leverage to India to shout about the Chinese occupation of disputed land in the international forums. And if any war breaks out in future, it gives a reason for India to go after them and get back PoK into India in the process.
For that to happen India's pm would have to be someone from this forum oooooooooooooooooooo
 

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Ok let us be clear on this. Taking back PoK and Gilit-Baltistan militarily is out of the question. Nothing about the leaders of this country either congress or BJP being spineless, but more rational. Talking of those areas militarily can come only at the loss of thousands if not hundred of thousands of our soldiers. The terrain is such. We will be fighting not only the PA but also its terrorists. They will use guerrilla warfare and bog us down completely and we might not be able to meet the objectives. Any war to take those areas will be nothing more than a shooting contest at the cost of tremendous lives which no political party will even think about. I have spoken with serving and retired officers of IA and they tell me as much. BJP let govt had to blink after a 12 month mobilization which proves the fact that facing huge loss of like is not acceptable. Its just plain fashion to call congress as spineless etc when the fact is that we cannot undertake a futile war.

One way of taking those areas is taking other parts of pakistan like punjab and sindh and use that as a bargaining chip. But doing so is at a risk of a nuke war.

I see the best way to take control of PoK and Gilgit Baltistan is actually the balkanization of Pakistan under its own internal turmoil with the new states sindh and balochistan well dispensed towards India. Sindh which will not be as strong militarily will rely on India to guarantee its security. India will be able to then encircle what left of pakistan which will be landlocked. The Chinese will lose access to the arabian sea as the bolochis will not allow it. China will lose interest in the northern areas and leave. India will then be able to put pressure on pakjab to settle the issue in Indias favor. Its a pretty long drawn scenario which is possible but one that will take quite a bit of time.
 
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The Messiah

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We should give nukes to vietnam...that'll make the chinese shit in there pants.

I know its unrealistic.
 

smartindian

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we should have security pack with all the asean nations and with japan, Taiwan, Australia. so we can defeat them in there one game
china has more enemy than India has.
 

Ray

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I wonder if China is doing all this to show solidarity with Pakistan, though on the surface that would be what it appears.

It is actually to ensure the safe transit of Chinese imports landed at the Gwadar port and transited through Northern Area to China and that is what is the aim since they would be very nervous of any interruption in the movement of their goods.

Pakistan finds it essential to have foreign troops on its soil, be it the US or China so that it acts as a deterrent to any designs by India.

Therefore, it is a scratch my back and I will scratch yours equation between China and Pakistan.

Pakistan claims to be a sovereign country but it has no qualms about having foreign troops stationed on their soil.

India should cultivate the Balwaristanis in Northern Areas and the Uighurs in Sinkiang as an investment for the future.

As far as the defence exercise and all that goes, it is in any case a charade and so are the border meetings.

Ignore China and they will realise that India does not actually have much to worry about.
 

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