China has military presence in Gilgit-Baltistan (PoK)

Discussion in 'Gilgit Baltistan' started by Daredevil, Oct 14, 2009.

  1. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    India asks China to stay out of PoK

    Finally, India is getting assertive with China. Hope this assertiveness is not flash in a pan but will be sustained and if time comes backed up with action.

     
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  3. Sridhar

    Sridhar House keeper Moderator

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    One more source, just to confirm it .

     
  4. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    China's Discreet Hold on Pakistan's Northern Borderlands


    While the world focuses on the flood-ravaged Indus River valley, a quiet geopolitical crisis is unfolding in the Himalayan borderlands of northern Pakistan, where Islamabad is handing over de facto control of the strategic Gilgit-Baltistan region in the northwest corner of disputed Kashmir to China.

    The entire Pakistan-occupied western portion of Kashmir stretching from Gilgit in the north to Azad (Free) Kashmir in the south is closed to the world, in contrast to the media access that India permits in the eastern part, where it is combating a Pakistan-backed insurgency. But reports from a variety of foreign intelligence sources, Pakistani journalists and Pakistani human rights workers reveal two important new developments in Gilgit-Baltistan: a simmering rebellion against Pakistani rule and the influx of an estimated 7,000 to 11,000 soldiers of the People’s Liberation Army.

    China wants a grip on the region to assure unfettered road and rail access to the Gulf through Pakistan. It takes 16 to 25 days for Chinese oil tankers to reach the Gulf. When high-speed rail and road links through Gilgit and Baltistan are completed, China will be able to transport cargo from Eastern China to the new Chinese-built Pakistani naval bases at Gwadar, Pasni and Ormara, just east of the Gulf, within 48 hours.

    Many of the P.L.A. soldiers entering Gilgit-Baltistan are expected to work on the railroad. Some are extending the Karakoram Highway, built to link China’s Sinkiang Province with Pakistan. Others are working on dams, expressways and other projects.

    Mystery surrounds the construction of 22 tunnels in secret locations where Pakistanis are barred. Tunnels would be necessary for a projected gas pipeline from Iran to China that would cross the Himalayas through Gilgit. But they could also be used for missile storage sites.

    Until recently, the P.L.A. construction crews lived in temporary encampments and went home after completing their assignments. Now they are building big residential enclaves clearly designed for a long-term presence.

    What is happening in the region matters to Washington for two reasons. Coupled with its support for the Taliban, Islamabad’s collusion in facilitating China’s access to the Gulf makes clear that Pakistan is not a U.S. “ally.” Equally important, the nascent revolt in the Gilgit-Baltistan region is a reminder that Kashmiri demands for autonomy on both sides of the cease-fire line would have to be addressed in a settlement.

    Media attention has exposed the repression of the insurgency in the Indian-ruled Kashmir Valley. But if reporters could get into the Gilgit-Baltistan region and Azad Kashmir, they would find widespread, brutally-suppressed local movements for democratic rights and regional autonomy.

    When the British partitioned South Asia in 1947, the maharajah who ruled Kashmir, including Gilgit and Baltistan, acceded to India. This set off intermittent conflict that ended with Indian control of the Kashmir Valley, the establishment of Pakistan-sponsored Free Kashmir in western Kashmir, and Pakistan’s occupation of Gilgit and Baltistan, where Sunni jihadi groups allied with the Pakistan Army have systematically terrorized the local Shiite Muslims.

    Gilgit and Baltistan are in effect under military rule. Democratic activists there want a legislature and other institutions without restrictions like the ones imposed on Free Kashmir, where the elected legislature controls only 4 out of 56 subjects covered in the state constitution. The rest are under the jurisdiction of a “Kashmir Council” appointed by the president of Pakistan.

    India gives more power to the state government in Srinagar; elections there are widely regarded as fair, and open discussion of demands for autonomy is permitted. But the Pakistan-abetted insurgency in the Kashmir Valley has added to tensions between Indian occupation forces and an assertive population seeking greater of local autonomy.

    The United States is uniquely situated to play a moderating role in Kashmir, given its growing economic and military ties with India and Pakistan’s aid dependence on Washington. Such a role should be limited to quiet diplomacy. Washington should press New Delhi to resume autonomy negotiations with Kashmiri separatists. Success would put pressure on Islamabad for comparable concessions in Free Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan. In Pakistan, Washington should focus on getting Islamabad to stop aiding the insurgency in the Kashmir Valley and to give New Delhi a formal commitment that it will not annex Gilgit and Baltistan.

    Precisely because the Gilgit-Baltistan region is so important to China, the United States, India and Pakistan should work together to make sure that it is not overwhelmed, like Tibet, by the Chinese behemoth.

    Selig S. Harrison is director of the Asia Program at the Center for International Policy and a former South Asia bureau chief of The Washington Post.
     
  5. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    There can be two reasons of this cleverly worded report....

    1.Pakistan has already bartered away NA to china.
    2.USA wants to insert itself into kashmir dispute by showing india fear of china.

    Following paragraph points to writers sinister intentions.Iindia has to be weary of USA-pakistan-china triangle.since 1965 this triangle has always undermined indias security.Noway india can trust usa on kashmir or any other disputes it has with pakistan.US would use every trick to involve itself more and more in India affairs.

     
  6. IBRIS

    IBRIS Senior Member Senior Member

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    China's Discreet Hold on Pakistan's Northern Borderlands

    While the world focuses on the flood-ravaged Indus River valley, a quiet geopolitical crisis is unfolding in the Himalayan borderlands of northern Pakistan, where Islamabad is handing over de facto control of the strategic Gilgit-Baltistan region in the northwest corner of disputed Kashmir to China.

    The entire Pakistan-occupied western portion of Kashmir stretching from Gilgit in the north to Azad (Free) Kashmir in the south is closed to the world, in contrast to the media access that India permits in the eastern part, where it is combating a Pakistan-backed insurgency. But reports from a variety of foreign intelligence sources, Pakistani journalists and Pakistani human rights workers reveal two important new developments in Gilgit-Baltistan: a simmering rebellion against Pakistani rule and the influx of an estimated 7,000 to 11,000 soldiers of the People’s Liberation Army.

    China wants a grip on the region to assure unfettered road and rail access to the Gulf through Pakistan. It takes 16 to 25 days for Chinese oil tankers to reach the Gulf. When high-speed rail and road links through Gilgit and Baltistan are completed, China will be able to transport cargo from Eastern China to the new Chinese-built Pakistani naval bases at Gwadar, Pasni and Ormara, just east of the Gulf, within 48 hours.

    Many of the P.L.A. soldiers entering Gilgit-Baltistan are expected to work on the railroad. Some are extending the Karakoram Highway, built to link China’s Sinkiang Province with Pakistan. Others are working on dams, expressways and other projects.

    Mystery surrounds the construction of 22 tunnels in secret locations where Pakistanis are barred. Tunnels would be necessary for a projected gas pipeline from Iran to China that would cross the Himalayas through Gilgit. But they could also be used for missile storage sites.

    Until recently, the P.L.A. construction crews lived in temporary encampments and went home after completing their assignments. Now they are building big residential enclaves clearly designed for a long-term presence.

    What is happening in the region matters to Washington for two reasons. Coupled with its support for the Taliban, Islamabad’s collusion in facilitating China’s access to the Gulf makes clear that Pakistan is not a U.S. “ally.” Equally important, the nascent revolt in the Gilgit-Baltistan region is a reminder that Kashmiri demands for autonomy on both sides of the cease-fire line would have to be addressed in a settlement.

    Media attention has exposed the repression of the insurgency in the Indian-ruled Kashmir Valley. But if reporters could get into the Gilgit-Baltistan region and Azad Kashmir, they would find widespread, brutally-suppressed local movements for democratic rights and regional autonomy.

    When the British partitioned South Asia in 1947, the maharajah who ruled Kashmir, including Gilgit and Baltistan, acceded to India. This set off intermittent conflict that ended with Indian control of the Kashmir Valley, the establishment of Pakistan-sponsored Free Kashmir in western Kashmir, and Pakistan’s occupation of Gilgit and Baltistan, where Sunni jihadi groups allied with the Pakistan Army have systematically terrorized the local Shiite Muslims.

    Gilgit and Baltistan are in effect under military rule. Democratic activists there want a legislature and other institutions without restrictions like the ones imposed on Free Kashmir, where the elected legislature controls only 4 out of 56 subjects covered in the state constitution. The rest are under the jurisdiction of a “Kashmir Council” appointed by the president of Pakistan.

    India gives more power to the state government in Srinagar; elections there are widely regarded as fair, and open discussion of demands for autonomy is permitted. But the Pakistan-abetted insurgency in the Kashmir Valley has added to tensions between Indian occupation forces and an assertive population seeking greater of local autonomy.

    The United States is uniquely situated to play a moderating role in Kashmir, given its growing economic and military ties with India and Pakistan’s aid dependence on Washington. Such a role should be limited to quiet diplomacy. Washington should press New Delhi to resume autonomy negotiations with Kashmiri separatists. Success would put pressure on Islamabad for comparable concessions in Free Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan. In Pakistan, Washington should focus on getting Islamabad to stop aiding the insurgency in the Kashmir Valley and to give New Delhi a formal commitment that it will not annex Gilgit and Baltistan.

    Precisely because the Gilgit-Baltistan region is so important to China, the United States, India and Pakistan should work together to make sure that it is not overwhelmed, like Tibet, by the Chinese behemoth.

    Selig S. Harrison is director of the Asia Program at the Center for International Policy and a former South Asia bureau chief of The Washington Post.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/27/opinion/27iht-edharrison.html?_r=1
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2010
  7. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Time for the world to act before it is too late!

    Isolate Pakistan internationally and let the Balwaristanis be free to act in their own wisdom.
     
  8. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    PoK leaders want merger with India
    By d-sector Team

    Fast changing geo-political equations have made India extend its helping hand to political groups in PoK who have now been openly seeking New Delhi’s help in their struggle for survival and freedom.

    While all and sundry in India are criticising Prime Minister Manmohan Singh for bringing Balochistan on to the agenda of Indo-Pak bi-lateral talks, an international seminar organised in New Delhi has once again brought to the fore the approach-avoidance conflict India faces in dealing with the expectations of disenchanted communities from Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) and frontier regions.

    Till recently India did not want to be seen as meddling in Pakistan’s internal affairs, but several political groups in PoK have now been openly seeking New Delhi’s help in their struggle for freedom, dignity and human rights, and now it seems New Delhi is willing to extend a helping hand to the distressed Karakoram communities. India now claims “legitimate interest in territories and peoples that are part of India but under illegal occupation, both to the west as well as to the east”.

    These groups say that since India continues to consider the whole of Kashmir, including PoK, as its own territory, it is its duty to protect the local communities against Pakistan, a foreign aggressor for them.

    Some of these political leaders and intellectuals from areas around Gilgit and Baltistan in PoK, referred to as Northern Areas by Pakistan, travelled to New Delhi to participate in the seminar on ‘Society, Culture and Politics in the Karakoram Himalayas’. The seminar was dominated by tales of discrimination and persecution of the local people in these areas by Pakistan’s civilian and military establishment.

    “I am surprised that India has no concern about what is happening in Gilgit and Baltistan. Pakistan has been openly supporting and encouraging militants in Indian Kashmir and New Delhi doesn’t even want to keep contact with areas that are officially still a part of its own territory,” said Abdul Hamid Khan, chairman of Balawaristan National Front, a political party whose objective is to gain independence from Pakistan. Northern Areas are historically known as Balawaristan.

    Khan, like most other political leaders from the region, lives in exile in Europe. He said the Indian position was even more surprising considering the fact that most political formations in the area were now open to a merger with India.

    “Even an independent Balawaristan is in larger interest of India as it would not support terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir,” he said.

    Shaukat Kashmiri, leader of the United Kashmir National People’s Party, one of the largest political formations in the region, also spoke about a reunification with India. Kashmiri, who is chased by the ISI, has been operating out of Switzerland for the past few years.

    Though the leaders from PoK complained about the indifference India shows to their concerns, few former diplomats, army officials and intellectuals of India actively participated in the seminar.

    Prime Minister’s Special Envoy on Climate Change Shyam Saran made the inaugural address, in which he said, “The destinies of the Karakoram communities and the vision of India as a successful and inclusive plurality are in a sense, linked more than symbolically. We have a duty to be engaged more actively in the survival and I would venture to say, revival of these challenged communities.”

    Evidently India is reaching out to the communities in the Karakoram areas – stretching from Swat, Buner, Waziristan, Balochistan and Xinjiang to Gilgit, Hunza and Baltistan in the Northern Areas to Jammu & Kashmir. Significantly, most of these areas lie within the territory of the erstwhile Jammu & Kashmir state.

    India’s effort in getting together leaders from these regions is significant considering the rising unrest in several parts of Pakistan’s frontier regions as a result of the stresses of extremism and terrorism. For the first time, India is appealing to these indigenous mountain cultures, regardless of their religion, to bond as communities, rather than as parts of countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan and China.

    “It is our collective responsibility to preserve and to promote this varied culture, created by people who have a long history, settled existence and outstanding contributions to civilisation. India feels very much a part of this civilisational network which has enriched its own culture,” Saran said.

    “In its interaction with Pakistan on Jammu & Kashmir, India has always insisted that all cross-LoC links and potential projects for cooperation in specific areas must cover the entire erstwhile state of Jammu & Kashmir, including Gilgit and Baltistan. Any consultative mechanism across the LoC must be between self-governing and representative entities and that, too, includes Gilgit and Baltistan,” he added.

    Balwaristan
     
  9. Iamanidiot

    Iamanidiot Elite Member Elite Member

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    Ray sir is it true that Musharraf when he was a brigadier sent a Laskhar headed by osama bin laden to crush the Shia uprising in Gilgit and Baltistan how much of this is true??
     
  10. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Ya its true.2 days back i posted that article let me find it.

    http://pakteahouse.wordpress.com/2010/08/25/talibanization-of-the-heart/
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2010
  11. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    There can be other reason for PLA entering into NA.Is that PLA taking possession of pakistani strategic assets for fear of them falling into taliban hand. Gen. Tariq Majid's, who is the nominal head of nuclear forces, as the CJCSC,Son-in-law has been reported kidnapped from lahore.Is it that punjabi taliban are making a grab for the strategic assets of pakistan.


    General’s kin abducted

    Lahore, Aug. 26 (PTI): The son-in-law of Pakistan’s second highest ranking military official was abducted from his residence in Lahore today, police said.

    Aamir Malick, the son-in-law of the joint chiefs of staff committee chairman, Gen. Tariq Majid, was forced into a car outside his residence in Model Town and taken away last evening, police said. Ten people were involved in the abduction.

    The motive to abduct Malick, who has a jewellery store, was not clear. The family has not received any call from the kidnappers.
     
  12. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Dr Shabbir Choudary a Pakistani Kashmiri dissient indicated China's role as well couple of months back

    Who has compromised in Gilgit Baltistan?

     
  13. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    It seems another "Great Game" is being played by various world players for access of central asia by China or for strategic location by US. And in this game India remains on the fringes with no stake in it.
     
  14. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Old leaders always have weak heart they always remain content in what they 've thats why indian leaders always chant the mantra of peace coz they dont ve fire in the belly to play the great game hence india always remained a ringside viewer.Btw females are the best strategic thinkers and decision makers then males.
     
  15. hungo

    hungo Regular Member

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    Great game being played in what is officially Indian territory.IMO if the Paks don't seem to be able to control it we should take steps to swiftly recover it.Unless China takes serious overt steps it's presence there is only counted as political.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2010
  16. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    There can be two reasons of this cleverly worded report....

    1.Pakistan has already bartered away NA to china.
    2.USA wants to insert itself into kashmir dispute by showing india fear of china.

    Following paragraph points to writers sinister intentions.Iindia has to be weary of USA-pakistan-china triangle.since 1965 this triangle has always undermined indias security.Noway india can trust usa on kashmir or any other disputes it has with pakistan.US would use every trick to involve itself more and more in India affairs.

     
  17. Rebelkid

    Rebelkid Regular Member

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    Is it possible that U.S wants to have some kind of a base in Kashmir coz of the strategic location ?
     
  18. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Usa was always interested in Kashmir thats the only reason it kept the issue alive on behalf of pakistan.Btw most of APHC leaders are usa funded.
     
  19. hungo

    hungo Regular Member

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    They already have Afghanistan and virtually choice of anywhere in Pakistan if they wanted.
    They don't really need Kashmir except to remain up-to-date on the current events.
     
  20. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    They cant stay in afghanistan .taliban are already killing them.above all staying in afghanistan is like wasting their blood and money for nothing.thats why kashmir makes ideal choice for them.
     
  21. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    An Independent Kashmir is the desire of US as it check-mates India, Pakistan and China and will be used as a strategic base to control these countries. But that is not going to happen in my life time. There are only two outcomes of this Kashmir Issue - Status-quo or accession of Pakistani Kashmir to India in future.
     

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