China has joined the club with its first aircraft carrier

[debasree]

if they r happy with a30 year old trash why we bother,we will have much stronger iac-1 & iac-2 in our arsenal shortly.

 

[nimo_cn]

if they r happy with a30 year old trash why we bother,we will have much stronger iac-1 & iac-2 in our arsenal shortly.

Well, we are just following the example set by India for operating second-hand ACs. If I am not mistaken, India has a long history of operating second-hand ACs, and is still operating one and buying another.

The only difference here is Chinese are turning an empty AC shell into an operational AC on our own, whereas India is paying Russians to do the refurbishing job and was unfortunately blackmailed by Russians.

 

[ace009]

I cannot understand why all this trolling is going on about a Chinese AC. Firstly, the Varyag and the Goshkov are of the different size class and capacity. The Gorshkov is a STOVL carrier and the Varyag is a larger STOBAR carrier. The Gorshkov actaully sailed and is undergoing "refitting" according to Indian specs. The Varyag never Sailed (it was an empty hull) and is undergoing actual fittings and is as much a test bed for Chinese marine engineers as China's first AC.
Have a look at the how the western powers compare them - being neutral, they have a slightly better understanding than biased Indians or Chinese. In short, both of these carriers are "stop-gap" since the Russian designs from the 1980s were flawed, are outdated and limited use in future warfare. Both the Indians and the Chinese are using these for experience - maitaining an active carrier for training for India and developing a first carrier for the Chinese.

Better Carrier: Gorshkov vs Varyag - Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History

 

[pmaitra]

I cannot understand why all this trolling is going on about a Chinese AC. Firstly, the Varyag and the Goshkov are of the different size class and capacity. The Gorshkov is a STOVL carrier and the Varyag is a larger STOBAR carrier. The Gorshkov actaully sailed and is undergoing "refitting" according to Indian specs. The Varyag never Sailed (it was an empty hull) and is undergoing actual fittings and is as much a test bed for Chinese marine engineers as China's first AC.
Have a look at the how the western powers compare them - being neutral, they have a slightly better understanding than biased Indians or Chinese. In short, both of these carriers are "stop-gap" since the Russian designs from the 1980s were flawed, are outdated and limited use in future warfare. Both the Indians and the Chinese are using these for experience - maitaining an active carrier for training for India and developing a first carrier for the Chinese.

Better Carrier: Gorshkov vs Varyag - Armchair General and HistoryNet >> The Best Forums in History

Admiral Gorshkov or INS Vikramaditya is a STOBAR now, isn't it?

 

[Armand2REP]

Admiral Gorshkov or INS Vikramaditya is a STOBAR now, isn't it?

It will be once it hits open water. Right now it is another Dock Queen.

 

[Parthy]

if they r happy with a30 year old trash why we bother,we will have much stronger iac-1 & iac-2 in our arsenal shortly.

You can't say just like that.. At least by choosing the dropped Varyag, they'll learn how difficult is to train and maintain an AC crew. It is not going to be that easy..

And in case of ours, IAC is scheduled for sea trials for 2014 which might drift which is well known factors of ours.. and based on the latest update given by Naval Admiral IAC 2 still in concept design will not commence build no sooner 2016..

Check this out
http://defenceforumindia.com/indian...rrier-iac-news-discussions-40.html#post259722

 

[debasree]

Well, we are just following the example set by India for operating second-hand ACs. If I am not mistaken, India has a long history of operating second-hand ACs, and is still operating one and buying another.

The only difference here is Chinese are turning an empty AC shell into an operational AC on our own, whereas India is paying Russians to do the refurbishing job and was unfortunately blackmailed by Russians.

i want to say u good luck ,hope it will be seaworthy ,and not much time sit idle into urs dock for repairing.

 

[nimo_cn]

i want to say u good luck ,hope it will be seaworthy ,and not much time sit idle into urs dock for repairing.

I assure you that Chinese second-hand AC will go sea trial before Indian one.

 

[redragon]

I assure you that Chinese second-hand AC will go sea trial before Indian one.

that is not called for, man. Traditional chinese way of expressing is much better

 

[ejazr]

The point to be noted from this is not to mock or wonder whether or not the Chinese will be able to deploy an AC battle group. It is only a matter of when?

And with regards to that, how is India doing to maintain a balance of power in Indian Ocean region and whether we need to make forays into the South China see to contain Chinese pressure in our sphere of influence? These are the questions that we should be pondering about.

 

[debasree]

I assure you that Chinese second-hand AC will go sea trial before Indian one.

you missed the total point i want to say urs ac how many times will be at sea after trial or it sit idle ina dry dock like a sitting ducks & only ac means nothing your navy pilots r novice they cannot match our indian pilots.

 

[pi314159]

you missed the total point i want to say urs ac how many times will be at sea after trial or it sit idle ina dry dock like a sitting ducks & only ac means nothing your navy pilots r novice they cannot match our indian pilots.

Everyone starts as a novice, even experienced Indian pilots were novice before, right? Being inexperience is exactly why the Chinese is hurrying up. From India's perspective, you can bet the Chinese cannot learn fast enough. Even it is true, you still have to further bet you can improve your skill and experience indefinitely.

 

[ace009]

you missed the total point i want to say urs ac how many times will be at sea after trial or it sit idle ina dry dock like a sitting ducks & only ac means nothing your navy pilots r novice they cannot match our indian pilots.

I am not sure your "patriotism" does any good to our country. Rather than flaming the Chinese members, try to be rational and develop a sense of appreciation for others. China is a big country with more forces and larger defense budget than India. They have WAY more experience in some areas than the IN (like SSBNs and even SSNs). So what if IN has more experience in some areas (like AC). When the Varyag is completed, it will serve the PLAN in the best way possible - whether it is in the docks or near shore patrol or in the open ocean is based upon the PLAN mission needs. I personally would love to see a theoretical face-off between an IN carrier and a PLAN carrier, but not really - I hate unnecessary warfare. That being said, I look forward to an IN with 5-6 carriers by 2030.

3 diesel carriers like the IAC 1-3 and a couple of nuclear supercarriers! Say 4 carrier battle groups patrolling the IOR. That would be really great for the IN.

 

[debasree]

I am not sure your "patriotism" does any good to our country. Rather than flaming the Chinese members, try to be rational and develop a sense of appreciation for others. China is a big country with more forces and larger defense budget than India. They have WAY more experience in some areas than the IN (like SSBNs and even SSNs). So what if IN has more experience in some areas (like AC). When the Varyag is completed, it will serve the PLAN in the best way possible - whether it is in the docks or near shore patrol or in the open ocean is based upon the PLAN mission needs. I personally would love to see a theoretical face-off between an IN carrier and a PLAN carrier, but not really - I hate unnecessary warfare. That being said, I look forward to an IN with 5-6 carriers by 2030.

3 diesel carriers like the IAC 1-3 and a couple of nuclear supercarriers! Say 4 carrier battle groups patrolling the IOR. That would be really great for the IN.

i donot want to hurt anybody,but some members seem to be acute chineese lover,actually urs comments do sound good to pakis * chineese but not us.

 

[bhramos]

then what was world war 2.

But not in the ages of smart Missiles after the WWII,

i think only Falklands War.

 

[bhramos]

India not worried about China's aircraft carrier


NEW DELHI: China's declaration that its first-ever aircraft carrier will begin sea trials towards the year-end has caused tremors around the world. But even as it jostles for the same strategic space in the Indian Ocean region, India is not too unnerved by all the brouhaha.

For one, even if the carrier becomes ocean-worthy by 2012-2013, it will take China a few years to master the complex art of operating fighters from a moving airfield on the high seas and then converting the entire package into a potent offensive weapons platform.

India, of course, has been in the business of operating "flattops" for five decades now, commissioning as it did its first carrier INS Vikrant with its Sea Hawk jets way back in 1961. As of now, the Navy operates the 28,000-tonne INS Viraat, even though it's left with only 11 of its Sea Harrier jump-jets.

India not worried about China's aircraft carrier - Times Of India

 

[Yatharth Singh]

3 diesel carriers like the IAC 1-3 and a couple of nuclear supercarriers! Say 4 carrier battle groups patrolling the IOR. That would be really great for the IN.

IAC-3 will be a nuclear powered AC whereas only IAC 1 and 2 will be conventional powered.

 

[huaxia rox]

India not worried about China's aircraft carrier


NEW DELHI: China's declaration that its first-ever aircraft carrier will begin sea trials towards the year-end has caused tremors around the world. But even as it jostles for the same strategic space in the Indian Ocean region, India is not too unnerved by all the brouhaha.

For one, even if the carrier becomes ocean-worthy by 2012-2013, it will take China a few years to master the complex art of operating fighters from a moving airfield on the high seas and then converting the entire package into a potent offensive weapons platform.

India, of course, has been in the business of operating "flattops" for five decades now, commissioning as it did its first carrier INS Vikrant with its Sea Hawk jets way back in 1961. As of now, the Navy operates the 28,000-tonne INS Viraat, even though it's left with only 11 of its Sea Harrier jump-jets.

India not worried about China's aircraft carrier - Times Of India

india in deed should not worry.

chinas AC project is not for india or indian ocean but for south china sea.....for taiwan and ultimately the US.

if there were war between china and india in the near future say in 10 years we would attack india through land and sky and woouldnt be that stupid to send ACs to indian ocean. maybe send some subs there to safeguard our oil tanks as much as possible. on the other hand i dont think indians would send their ACs to attack china as well. indians would also fight china mainly through land and sky.

 

[Yatharth Singh]

But not in the ages of smart Missiles after the WWII,

i think only Falklands War.

He asked in the entire history, not any specific time period.

 

[bhramos]

China's fortress on water

The grey hull of China's first aircraft carrier loomed in plain sight of camera-toting warship fans and residents of northeast Dalian long before the military gave the first confirmation this month of its worst-kept 67,500-tonne secret. "There, hang kong mujian (aircraft carrier)," said a man in oli


ve shirt peering from a third-floor glass door of the Ikea mall in Dalian, at the red cranes sticking out of China's strategic shipyard.
"The carrier view is better from the other window,'' he advised this reporter on gawking from the store's bedding section at the 990-feet-long evidence of China's naval ambitions for its dispute-ridden maritime backyard to the Indian and Pacific oceans.

By some estimates, the carrier — once camouflaged as a future floating casino — will be refitted by July for trials in southern Sanya. A concrete carrier model has also popped up in central Wuhan.

The Shi Lang, the Soviet-era Varyag now reportedly renamed after a Qing dynasty conquerer of Taiwan, is also visible from the elevated roads of this Hyderabad-sized metropolis home to massive hi-tech zones with outsourcing ambitions.

Beijing's government advisers on oceanic strategy say one carrier is not enough.

"Outsiders should get accustomed to China's rise,'' South Asia strategist Hu Shisheng at the state-run China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations, told HT. Hu estimated that China needs minimum nine carriers including three in operation, and over a dozen in future.

"As a global power, we should be able to give a security guarantee to our neighbours,'' he said, listing North Korea, Cambodia, Laos, and Myanmar which has a coastline only along the Indian Ocean.

"The Chinese acquisition of a few aircraft carriers would be the realisation of dreams to operate in the Pacific and Indian ocean,'' said strategist Mohan Malik at the Asia Pacific Centre for Security Studies in Hawaii. "It will also enable China to provide security to North Korea, Myanmar, Pakistan, Iran and others."

This warship will first be deployed only for trials and training. But China's rising naval assertiveness in disputed waters since the last two years is already making its rivals like Japan, Vietnam and Philippines warily edge closer to the US.

PLA official Qi Jianguo recently said that China needs an aircraft carrier as a status symbol comparable to permanent members of the UN Security Council and to face the "complex maritime problems'' in the southern and eastern sea and Taiwan straits. China is also testing a J-20 stealth fighter jet, and some reports estimate that a carrier-killer ballistic missile is in the works.

This week, as maritime disputes with Vietnam hit a shrill note, China's largest 3,000-tonne civilian maritime patrol ship set sail into the South China Sea and Singapore to inspect foreign vessels and 'protect sovereignty'.

The state media revealed that China will expand its maritime surveillance fleet to 520 ships and 15,000 personnel by 2020, up from 260 ships and 9,000 personnel today.

China insists that its military modernisation is for defensive purposes and that its carrier will not enter others' territorial waters. However, strategist Li Bin at Tsinghua University recently told the nationalist Global Times that it's 'hard to say that the aircraft carrier will never go to territories outside China'.

For now, experts say that China's ambition does not match its reality and capability. "For a decade or so, Beijing will not have more than two aircraft carriers and that won't be enough for 24/7 global coverage,'' said Malik. "Needless to say, China's drive to build a large ocean-going naval fleet will lead to the emergence of a like-minded coalition of maritime powers to counter the Chinese navy."

China's PLA chief recently admitted being 20 years behind the US military. "I feel very sad after visiting the US because I feel and know how poor our equipments are and how underdeveloped we remain,'' general Chen Bingde was quoted saying on a visit to Washington.

Several Chinese residents told HT that their nationalistic pride in the warship rising in Dalian's skyline is not aimed at India but at their historic rival Japan. Though India has a disputed border with China, locals said they consider India less threatening in comparison to Japan.

Dalian and its Port Arthur have a history of Japanese occupation (1905-45). More recently, old maritime disputes with Japan have sparked markedly aggressive reactions from China.

"India is a friendly country,'' said a taxi driver who pointed out the carrier's location. "But these days India is getting so friendly with Japan, heh?''

China's fortress on water - Hindustan Times