China has joined the club with its first aircraft carrier

Discussion in 'China' started by ejazr, Jun 10, 2011.

  1. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    China has joined the club with its first aircraft carrier | Matthew Good | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

    It's been revealed that the Chinese are building their first aircraft carrier, the Varyag. At 300 metres in length, it will be 30 metres shorter than a US Nimitz class super-carrier. The hull of the Varyag dates back to the 1980s, was initially constructed by the Russians, and sat in a dockyard in the Ukraine rusting until it was purchased by the Chinese. While the vessel is set for sea trials later this year, the Chinese still have to master its use, including learning how to launch and recover jets, which should take them several more years to accomplish.

    The fact that the Chinese will possess a carrier has some defence analysts concerned, but they'd be the sort that view any alteration in the current global status quo discomforting. The United States currently has 11 carriers, all Nimitz class boats, with three new carriers currently in production, all of which are new Ford class super-carriers. Of the three, the keel of one has been laid, one has been cut, and the third is slated for production and expected in 2023.

    Currently the largest carriers in the world, Nimitz class super-carriers have an approximate displacement of 102,000 tonnes, are propelled by two Westinghouse A4W nuclear reactors to four screws, can achieve over 30 knots, have an unlimited range, and carry a crew of 5,680, which includes air wing personnel. Each of them also carry between 85 and 90 aircraft. The next largest carrier in the world is currently the flagship of the Russian navy, the Admiral Kuznetsov – it being the only carrier in the Russian navy. The Varyag was supposed to be the second in its class, but construction on it was halted after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Its statistics are vastly inferior to that of the Nimitz class, as are those of France's Charles de Gaulle.

    If you're wondering what the global breakdown looks like:

    • United States: 11 carriers

    • Russia: 1 carrier

    • France: 1 carrier

    • Italy: 2 carriers

    • India: 1 carrier

    • Brazil: 1 carrier

    • Netherlands: 1 carrier

    • Thailand: 1 carrier

    • United Kingdom: 1 carrier

    Besides being nowhere near in the same league as Nimitz class carriers, the US possesses two more active carriers than the rest of the world combined. Each of those carriers is the lead command vessel of a naval group, or CSG (carrier strike group). Each CSG consists of a carrier and its air wing, a minimum of one cruiser, a minimum of two destroyers/frigates and logistical support vessels. The inclusion of submarines is never officially listed, as to do so would admit their presence and therefore limit their capabilities.

    A single US carrier strike group is, at present, the most powerful military asset in the world. In the case of the US navy, a CSG has the ability to deploy amphibious ready groups (marines/special forces); establish air supremacy in a given theatre of operation; operate in all weather conditions 24 hours a day (save those that pose a threat to the group's immediate security); are designed to be able to project power ashore to deal with a multitude of sophisticated land-based threats, such as missile defence systems; and, above all, can deploy theatre ballistic missiles that possess a range of between 300 to 3,500 kilometres (tactical-intercontinental). That aspect changes if the group is accompanied by a ballistic submarine (SSBN), which has the ability to launch up to 24 Trident II's with a START-limited five MIRV's per missile, each of which can be configured to deliver W88s, which have a maximum yield of 475 kilotonnes – roughly 36 times more powerful per warhead than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima.

    In short, a single CSG could – if fully unleashed – devastate most nations on earth.

    If you're wondering if the Chinese have subs capable of launching nuclear weapons, the answer is yes. At present they are believed to possess at least one 094, which has the ability to launch an estimated 20 to 24 Type 3 JL-2 SLBM's. The Chinese are believed to be building two more 094s, with some claiming that more than one is now in service. Despite this, the Chinese government has yet to recklessly unleash the 094 on the west – surprise, surprise.

    By comparison, the US has 18 Ohio class subs, 14 of which are Trident II SSBN's that are capable of carrying 24 SLBMs – each of which can, if unrestricted by treaties, deploy 12 independent warheads per missile at a maximum range of 12,000 kilometres. If fully laden, that's 288 nuclear warheads per boat, each possessing a maximum yield of 475 kilotonnes.
     
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  3. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    What aircraft carrier do the Dutch have? And since when is a Dock Queen considered an operational carrier?
     
  4. Iamanidiot

    Iamanidiot Elite Member Elite Member

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    the Chinese have anything but an operational carrier
     
  5. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    That Dock Queen has been sitting in the slip so long it has its own address.
     
  6. Iamanidiot

    Iamanidiot Elite Member Elite Member

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    In fact the Russians removed the Central support beam before selling the varyag to the Chinese.Till date nobody saw the Chinese trying to insert an engine into it.
     
  7. aramsogo

    aramsogo Regular Member

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    That cute little story could be true if only the Varyag did not come from the Ukraine.
     
  8. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Fact is, Ukraine sold it totally stripped including engines. To put boilers into the the Shi Lang, it has to be opened up to insert them. There is no evidence it has.
     
  9. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    True Dutch does not have carrier, if so, please somebody prove......
     
  10. aramsogo

    aramsogo Regular Member

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    Look, smoke. This discussion is pointless. Next you'll tell me that's a PS.
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    You would be correct, it is a photochop. The vapor coming out of that fake pic is steam when it is supposed to be venting burnt diesel which is black.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. aramsogo

    aramsogo Regular Member

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    You really are talking out of your butt. Both Varyag and Kutznetsov are powered by steam (as in water, as in the Harry Potter Hogwarts train) and not diesel engines.
     
  13. chex3009

    chex3009 Regular Member

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    While the world is going gaga over this re-painted and re-plenished Ex-Soviet Era Carrier, India is building its IAC-1 from scratch and no one is even noticing. Can't understand Psyche of Western Media????
     
  14. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    It uses diesel to create the steam for the turbines. duh
     
  15. aramsogo

    aramsogo Regular Member

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    It uses marine fuel oil to heat the steam turbine. There's no diesel engine or gas turbine. Here's a kuznetsov a pic...
    Is this a photoshop too??

    [​IMG]
     
  16. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    varyag ? rather strange name for a chinese machine - is the name a carry over from the original buillders of the main frame or something ?
    hmmmm google to the rescue - here is some info from wikipedia :-
    Varyag (Russian: Варяг) was to be an Admiral Kuznetsov class multirole aircraft carrier. She was known as Riga[3] when her keel was laid down at Shipyard 444 (now Nikolayev South) in Nikolayev December 6, 1985.[4] Design of the carrier was undertaken by the Nevskoye Planning and Design Bureau.[5] She was launched December 4, 1988, but she was renamed Varyag (Varangian) in late 1990, after the famous Russian cruiser.
    Construction stopped by 1992 with the ship structurally complete but without electronics. Ownership was transferred to Ukraine as the Soviet Union broke up and the ship was laid up unmaintained, then stripped. In early 1998, she lacked engines, a rudder, and much of her operating systems. She was put up for auction.
    Currently the ship is being repaired by China's People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) after purchasing it at auction for US$20 million.[6] It was widely reported that the ship would become a casino in the Chinese SAR of Macau. This has been proven incorrect as the ship is docked in Dalian and painted PLAN grey. The Chinese Navy has reportedly named the carrier Shi Lang and did receive delivery of the ship in October 2010.[7] Defense News and Intelligence sources claim that the ship has been refitted and will be put through Sea Trials in the summer of 2011.[8]
     
  17. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    You are both right and both wrong. The picture of steam coming out of Varyag's boilers is a photo-shop. It does burn fuel oil to run its steam turbines which produces a black smoke as seen in the second photo coming out of the main stack. The diesel is used for its generators which is separate from propulsion.
     
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  18. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Fuel oil, diesel... same difference. It is still a photochop.
     
  19. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Hopefully it stays that way for the meantime.

    Personally i dont see anything wrong with china building weapons...frankly if the west can have it then the rest should try to have it.
     
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  20. aramsogo

    aramsogo Regular Member

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    No it's not. Diesel is way more expensive than bunker fuel. You have no future as an electricity trader.

    Prove it's a photoshop. You guys call everything Chinese a photoshop but are proven wrong time and again. J-20 is only the latest example. When Varyag sails this year, you'll be wrong again.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2011
  21. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Same difference in the smoke it makes... both burn black which proves your photo is a fake with some dumb dumb faking steam when he should have faked the real exhaust.

    You already got called out by me and now a defence professional from RUSSIA... end of that story.
     

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