China has dismiss the chief designer of J-20 ,JF-17 & J-10

[Project Dharma]

All I asked is a picture of an Indian plane powered by an Indian engine. I don't really care if India is behind China in anything else, including software

Indians in this thread are talking about how Chinese airplanes are junk and how all Chinese engine are failures should at least be able to produce one picture of an Indian plane with an Indian engine, right?

I can understand why white people might laugh at Chinese even when there are tons of Chinese aircraft powered by Chinese engines. But whites laugh harder at people like Indians and Africans who don't have a single working engine at all!

Also, the rest of the world would laugh very hard at dark people like Indians who don't have engines but use white people's achievements to bash the many Chinese aircraft flying with Chinese engines.

Don't you Indians understand the deep racism against dark skin exemplified by Black Lives Matter? Sorry, but if you use the achievements of whites instead of your own achievements to attack others, people will see you as riding the coattails of the very people who look down on you and laugh very hard.

It means Indians have none of the same achievement as Chinese but are jealous of the Chinese who have many many engine and airframe types so they use the achievements of whites out of desperation.

I hope Indians can show me that picture of an Indian plane powered by an Indian engine. I don't want the world to see them in such a pitiful and pathetic light.

Very strange reply, can only assume you are trolling. I already admitted Indian manufacturing sucks because of Congress. India is working on fixing that in collaboration with the west. That doesn't mean they can't laugh at the mullah air force of jihadistan who is buying or rather getting hardware in exchange for prostitution.

As for laughing at Indians, I am American and this country ain't white first of all. Secondly many many Indians work in the defense sector here (as do Chinese but not mullah porkis) The failure of Indian manufacturing is partly due to brain drain from the west. Whats laughable is that there is no brain drain from Pak, the buffoons who run that country are their finest. Lastly, nobody laughs at people who admit their weaknesses and are actively trying to improve them. We will see who laughs in twenty years.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

That doesn't mean they can't laugh at the mullah air force of jihadistan who is buying or rather getting hardware in exchange for prostitution.

Nope, that was a proper reply to Indians who is using American achievements to bash the many Chinese planes powered by Chinese engines because they cannot provide a single picture of an Indian plane powered by an Indian made engine.

As for laughing at Indians, I am American and this country ain't white first of all.

I'm American as well and I can tell you our family (and yours, if you are honest) immigrated here because it is a successful western -- therefore white -- nation. The same for all the other immigrants here. Otherwise you would have stayed in India and my family in East Asia.

Anyways, the US should not be in this thread at all but the Indians who insist on using white achievements to bash China is laughable.

Again post one picture of an Indian plane with an Indian engine. I already posted a whole bunch of Chinese planes with Chinese engines.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Lastly, nobody laughs at people who admit their weaknesses and are actively trying to improve them. We will see who laughs in twenty years.

No, but people do laugh at Indians who insists on using white achievements to bash the Chinese who have literally thousands of home-built aircraft and engines and thousands of pictures to prove it.


It is extremely laughable Indians cannot produce a single picture of an indian plane with Indian powerplant while talking about Chinese "failures."


Who wouldn't laugh at such people?

 

[gadeshi]

That's silly, there are many, many Chinese engines powering many, many Chinese warplanes.


J-7E series with WP-13

JH-7A with WS-9.

J-10B with WS-10B

J-11B with WS-10A.

J-11BS with WS-10A

J-11BH (naval, one did barrel-roll over a USN P-8) with WS-10H

J-11D (canted radome for AESA) with WS-10A

Yeah, but...
How much is inter-repair lifetime of them?

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[Project Dharma]

I'm American as well and I can tell you our family (and yours, if you are honest) immigrated here because it is a successful western -- therefore white -- nation. The same for all the other immigrants here. Otherwise you would have stayed in India and my family in East Asia.

I was with you till you said the words "white". While it is true that the founding fathers were white and most initial achievements were by white people, currently that is not the case. Indians fought their wars in WW1 and WW2. Chinese immigrants built the railroads. Anyway, I digress. Most educated Indians do not make fun of Chinese achievements, we make fun of you for your choice of ally. Chinese and Indian cultures are progressive and they could rule the world together. Instead, China chooses to back a failed terrorist banana republic who would bite China at the first chance if they could get India out of the way.

 

[gadeshi]

Calling a whole people "laying" is not very nice.

Can you post pictures of Indian planes with Indian engines just like I did with Chinese planes and Chinese engines?

Posting pictures is much nicer and sexier than making racist comments about all chinese are this or all Indians are that!

Agreed, but those planes are not entirely Chinese and their engines as well

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[gadeshi]

Yes, JF 17 copied from Mig 21.............

J 10 is a desaster and a wastage of powerful russian engine. Saab made gripen E using 98 KN GE engine, Odd and dirty looking J 10 is a complete wastage of Lavi design and russian engine. HAd a country like india mada a plane using the engine like AL31, our plane would have been a top class.

China made J 15 copying Russian carier based fighter and how capable it is ?

Chinese media says it can not carry more than 2 ton weigh and can carrly only air to air missile.

Russian experts say that J-31 is an F-35 as it should really be.
So... Chinese have managed to create the right way F-35 - light, cheap, Agile and massive produced (when it will get its series).

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[gadeshi]

the main Problem is...
China never.. Developed The Air Power technology...
Their technology of air defense or jets or Its Technology are just "big Blunder "

All knows...

How poor Chinese Airforce...
in comparison of US Air force...

to be Super power.. Chiness needs Air Superiority..
but Only US have That power.. We seen.. us Airforce all aircraft or jet are in owsome.. (with Owsome development story) ..

u can list..this..
F-15 eagel
f-16 falcon
f-18 hornet.
f-22 raptor
a-10 thunderbolt
cv-22 osprey
ac-130 spooky.
f-117 stealth
b-1 lancer..
B-2 .Spirit bomber ..
(mention if I miss something)
all..have great job..


...but what with China. ???

All time crap / wrack Air Force..of PLAAF...
Chinese had never capability to develop a aircraft...
China start..in 95' after... make. super power dream..
with Russian..

Bought some su-27..aircraft..
and they.. using transfer technology..produced in mass..

but..after some time.. they shaw real color...
they break contract.. and .. cheat Russian..

Chinese used reverse technology..on su-27
to understand how the Su-27 making..

nd Chinese r master in this
yes they r master in theft.. ..

after many year try.. they crack that sukhoi technology.

and put way of making a new jet..
same.. replica of Su-27..

an results..j-10,j-11a,J-11B.. and late..j-15B..

all aircraft..using.. by PLAAF..is master copy of Sukhoi..

J-17 is also..based on Pak f-16..(givenn by us in '88)
and Isreali lavy..

this is wrack all time.. only used by Pak airforce.
in fresh.. Sri lanka also refused to take this aircraft..onlybecause of doubt about their capability..

J-20 is..old project..by russian..mig-1.42
And Chinese..want mix some stealth capability..
..
No door open.. to get . technology..
So.. Chinese.. observe..A.mistry jet F 117 material .. which is shoot down in Serbia.. hmm.. I don't know how useful for Chinese.. it was.. but after that.. Chinese military or hacker. Theft.. some classified data from.. Northrop..Vault.. about B-2.... all also flash in news


so .... this is short history of Chinese Aircraft program.

In this u can see Chinese just want results by any hell..

And result..is...
J-10 /j11,,j-17 r crap... and j-20 future is in dark...

..
So.. China dismissed. Their chief Designer.."
Who never design their aircraft .

Yeah.
But not now
Now we can say that F-35 has became an awesome peace of shit with the same shitty nifted development story full of fuck-ups and scandals (just like F-104)

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[SexyChineseLady]

I was with you till you said the words "white". While it is true that the founding fathers were white and most initial achievements were by white people, currently that is not the case. Indians fought their wars in WW1 and WW2. Chinese immigrants built the railroads. Anyway, I digress. Most educated Indians do not make fun of Chinese achievements, we make fun of you for your choice of ally. Chinese and Indian cultures are progressive and they could rule the world together. Instead, China chooses to back a failed terrorist banana republic who would bite China at the first chance if they could get India out of the way.

Not really up for discussion in the Chinese forum. But America will not be what it is today were it not for the white, European part of it.

If we are honest with ourselves, all immigrants to the US know and want to come to a white majority nation. If the US were majority Chinese, Indian or black then it would get the same lack of immigrants and have the same achirvement level as China, India or Africa. My final word on this unless some Indian brings up the US, Russia or Europe again in the discussion.

 

[gadeshi]

WS10A has a life of 30hr compare to 400 hr of Al 31,genrates less thrust and is maintainces nightmare. Your own airforce prefer J11 with Russian engine

Modern Al-31F series (series 2 and 3) have 1500 hrs of lifetime when 500 hrs inter-repair.
Al-31FM-1 has 3000 hrs full and 1000 inter-repair.

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[gadeshi]

Do you have a reliable source for that information?

UEC CEO Yuriy Shmotin has stated that Chinese Al-31F versions and derivatives cannot go further 300 hrs full and 100 hrs inter-repair lifetime.
It was 3 years ago.

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[gadeshi]

Yes, We made tejas , the beautiful small aircraft which lift double load than your huge twine engine junk the J 15. We made kaveri and surpass designed dry thrust but fell short of wet thrust. Kaveri is sufficient to power tejas and cover 90% of performance envelope. However, IAF is not PLA air force who accept any junk on the name indigenous stuff. Our airforce demands better than the best and that is why F16, F18 and even gripen lost in technical evaluation. You can make junk and make them fly without any usability in war and do chest thumping that your plane flies with your own engine but are they war worthy? No. You made J 20 and did a lots of chest thumping but the truth has come out now. All the program heads of various junk series of capy cat planes are sacked now. You J 10 are falling down like anything. There were at least 5 fell down in last years.

On other hand we took time but we got a genuine 4+ generation fighter comparable with anything in class. Our Tejas MK1+ shall be truly a world class fighter with 8.5g+ and weight carrying of 4.5 ton+ and 2K km range with bellow 6 ton weight. You can not even think of any similar aircraft. With the arrival of AMCA we shall have 5+ generation of fighter comparable with the best in class anywhere. On other hand you shall continue to make this sort of stolen design junk and keep on sacking the project director.

In missile technology also you guys bluffed a lot but your junk fang series missiles are nowhere our agni series forget about K series. You can not dream of making something similar to K series. You keep bluffing about career killer DF 21 for years without even a single test and we made a state of art Brahmos steep dive which can kill any aircraft career and we have 50+ successful test. We tested AAD and PAD and you kept copying S300 and ultimately bought S400. You guys are master bluffing and very low on achievement. So keep thumping your chest and waste your money. We shall keep making stuff like shaurya, K series, Astra. LRSAM, AAD and PAD. You will get third rate customers like pakistan who will keep saying that their JF 17 is similar to F 16.

Amm...
You've failed to make Kaveri engine....

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[IndianHawk]

Not really up for discussion in the Chinese forum. But America will not be what it is today were it not for the white, European part of it.

If we are honest with ourselves, all immigrants to the US know and want to come to a white majority nation. If the US were majority Chinese, Indian or black then it would get the same lack of immigrants and have the same achirvement level as China, India or Africa. My final word on this unless some Indian brings up the US, Russia or Europe again in the discussion.

White majority in US is constantly falling . Guess why?? Because of immigration.
Now despite that still more migration is incoming so your logic goes down the drain there.
People go to US to make money plain and simple.
Despite progress India China remain poor countries (china less India more)
With precapita income much lower then USA.

And making endless copies of Russian design and engines is a feet of manufacture not science.
India does that too but legally by paying due royalty to Russian .

This thread has lost purpose.
Info upon which it started was not accurate it shall be closed. @Kunal Biswas

 

[SexyChineseLady]

UEC CEO Yuriy Shmotin has stated that Chinese Al-31F versions and derivatives cannot go further 300 hrs full and 100 hrs inter-repair lifetime.
It was 3 years ago.

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If there is not a reasonable maintenance point, China would not be able to afford to equip hundreds of frontline planes with the WS-10A.

The backbone of the Chinese fleet are Flankers with WS-10As.

Lifetime of a WS-10A mentioned at Zhuhai was 2000-4000 hours lifetime and failure-free of 300 hours (meaning time between maintenance.)

Not as great as US/EU engines but on par with AL-31.

Not only that, the WS-10 is deemed mature enough that the WS-20 can be derived off of it. WS-20 is a low bypass transport engine, a class that depends on reliability and low maintenance.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

People go to US to make money plain and simple.

Silly. People could make money there because it is an advanced Western culture and society.

And making endless copies of Russian design and engines is a feet of manufacture not science.

The J-20, JH-7, J-10, JF-17, Y-20, K-8 and Y-12 among others have no Russian equivalent to copy from.

Granted the Flanker is Russian in design but every nut and bolt from airframe to engine cowling is built in China. You cannot cut the supply line of the J-11/15/16 from Russia. Every piece is manufactured in China.

India does that too but legally by paying due royalty to Russian .

No, India cannot. What you do is screwdrive together parts from Russia. If you had a real industrial base, India would be able to make a nose for the Tejas instead of waiting for one from Chobham.

 

[gadeshi]

Silly. People could make money there because it is an advanced Western culture and society.



The J-20, JH-7, J-10, JF-17, Y-20, K-8 and Y-12 among others have no Russian equivalent to copy from.

Granted the Flanker is Russian in design but every nut and bolt from airframe to engine cowling is built in China. You cannot cut the supply line of the J-11/15/16 from Russia. Every piece is manufactured in China.



No, India cannot. What you do is screwdrive together parts from Russia. If you had a real industrial base, India would be able to make a nose for the Tejas instead of waiting for one from Chobham.

A majority (some 90%) of Cino-Flankers park still flies with Al-31F. And your MOD has stated that China will buy (and be dependent on) Russian engines during the nearest 7-10 years. It was an interview on the previous Jhukhai expo.

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[J20!]

From wiki , type WS 10
The WS-10A, targeted for 130 kilonewtons (29,000 lbf) of thrust,[6] was already in development in 2002.[9] An early version was flown on an J-8II in 2002.[1] In 2004, Russian sources familiar with project reported problems meeting the thrust target;[10] in 2005, they reported problems reducing the weight of the primary and secondary compressors, in addition to problems meeting thrust requirements.[11] Engine testing on the J-11 had already started by 2004,[10] and testing using one engine on the J-11 may have occurred as early as 2002.[9]

A full-scale WS-10A engine was first seen at the 2008 China International Aviation & Aerospace Exhibition.[6]

In 2009, Western media reported that the WS-10A approached the performance of the Saturn AL-31, but took much longer than the AL-31 to develop thrust.[12]Furthermore, reportedly the engine only generated 110–125 kilonewtons (25,000–28,000 lbf) of thrust.[6] In April 2009, Lin Zuoming, head of AVIC, reported that the engine's quality was unsatisfactory.[13] In 2010, it was reported that reliability was also poor; the WS-10A lasted only 30 hours, while the AL-31 needed refurbishing after 400 hours.[14] The quality problems encountered with the WS-10A reflected the state of the Chinese aerospace industry; AVIC initiated a general effort to improve quality control throughout its production chain in 2011.[15]

So your "reliable" source is a Wikipedia article with reported figures from 2010?

Do you honestly believe that J11B's would be sent out on actual intercept missions if this 30hr figure you keep mentioning was true?

Would the PLAAF and PLANAF equip all of their 150+ J11B's with WS10A's if your "info" was accurate?

And even if that Wiki report was true, it dates from 2010. Its 2016 my guy, that was half a decade ago, That's the period of time it took the J20 to develop from first flight to LRIP...

 

[J20!]

A majority (some 90%) of Cino-Flankers park still flies with Al-31F. And your MOD has stated that China will buy (and be dependent on) Russian engines during the nearest 7-10 years. It was an interview on the previous Jhukhai expo.

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Again where are these figures coming from? 90%? J11B's, which make up the bulk of the PLA's Sino-flankers ALL fly on WS10A's. So does the new regiment of J16's.

Where'd you get that 90% figure from? I'd be very interested to see your source since I haven't seen a pic of J11B's flying on AL31's in years.

 

[airtel]

If there is not a reasonable maintenance point, China would not be able to afford to equip hundreds of frontline planes with the WS-10A.

The backbone of the Chinese fleet are Flankers with WS-10As.

Lifetime of a WS-10A mentioned at Zhuhai was 2000-4000 hours lifetime and failure-free of 300 hours (meaning time between maintenance.)

Not as great as US/EU engines but on par with AL-31.

Not only that, the WS-10 is deemed mature enough that the WS-20 can be derived off of it. WS-20 is a low bypass transport engine, a class that depends on reliability and low maintenance.

china dont have any jet engine or Fighter plane , chinese bought rejected designs of Russian MIG 1.44 & now they call it indigenous Junk -20 .

https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/articles/20140916.aspx

Warplanes: Chinese Engines Travel A Trail Of Tears


China continues to have problems with its locally produced military jet engines. The biggest problems are with the WS-10 series, which was designed and produced in China and the government has been pressuring the aircraft manufacturers to use Chinese made engines like this instead of Russian imports. This has not been working out as the government wants. For example, the new Chinese carrier fighter, the J-15, is supposed to have a more powerful Chinese made engine so that it can carry more weight using the ski jump deck on the new Chinese carrier. The ski jump is a cheaper and less complex take off alternative to the steam catapult. One disadvantage of the ski jump deck is that it cannot launch aircraft as heavy as a catapult can. China has developed a more powerful version of their WS-10 engine (the WS-10H) for the J-15 but has only been seen in two J-15s. Most J-15s are still using Russian AL-31Fs. China keeps details of its WS-10 development secret, but they cannot hide which of their aircraft are using the WS-10 and which the Russian made AL-31s that the WS-10 is based on and is supposed to replace. It is obvious that not a lot of WS-10s are being installed and that indicates the quality control and reliability problems of the WS-10 persist despite government denials.

The first WS-10s began showing up in J-11s back in 2004. In 2010 China revealed that it was replacing the Russian engines in its J-10 fighter, installing Chinese made WS-10A in place of the Russian made AL-31FN. Shortly after that announcement China ordered another 123 AL-31FNs, to be delivered by 2012. More AL-31s have been ordered but at the same time more Chinese fighters were being seen with WS-10s. Despite that the demand for AL-31s, based on the number of modern jet fighters China wants to build, is exceeding the Russian engine building capacity.

The Chinese claim the WS-10A is superior to the AL-31F, even though the WS-10A copied a lot of the Russian technology. The Chinese say they have improved on that. For example, as delivered from Russia, the original AL-31 was good for 900 hours of operation. The Chinese claim their engineers figured out how to tweak the design of the engine so that it would last for 1,500 hours. Russia has since improved their basic AL-31 lifetime to 1,500 hours, and, most recently, 2,000 hours. When pressed, the Chinese claim that they simply cannot produce enough WS-10As for all the new airframes they are building. But the reality is that the WS-10As have some serious, unpredictable and persistent reliability problems that limit the number of reliable (enough for regular use) engines available.

Back in 2011 China believed it would be free from dependence on Russia for military jet engines by 2016, which implied that Chinese engine manufacturers still had a way to go. Now the most any Chinese will admit to is that there will be no need for Russian engines by the end of the decade, maybe. Meanwhile China continues to import AL-31s and the RD-93 (a version of the MiG-29's RD-33) for the JF-17 from Russia. These engines are expensive, with the RD-33 going for about $3 million each and the AL-31 for about a third more.

Since the 1990s Chinese engineers have managed to master the manufacturing techniques needed to make a Chinese copy of the Russian AL-31 engine. This is part of a program that has also developed the WS-13, to replace the RD-93 as well. While the Chinese have been able to build engines that are durable, they are still having problems with reliability. Apparently it is still worth buying more Russian engines because the Chinese models are out of action too often, which keeps the jets grounded for repairs or, worst of all, an engine change.

China has long copied foreign technology, not always successfully. But since the 1990s China has poured much money into developing a jet engine manufacturing capability. The Chinese encountered many of the same problems the Russians did in the beginning. Developing the necessary engine design and construction skills is difficult. But China has several advantages. First, they knew of the mistakes the Russians had made, and so were able to avoid many of them. Then there was the fact that China had better access to Western manufacturing technology (both legally and illegally). Finally, China was, unlike the Soviets, able to develop their engine manufacturing capabilities in a market economy. This was much more efficient than the command economy that the Soviets were saddled with for seven decades. The Chinese consider all this part of the learning process and they do learn from their mistakes.

Meanwhile the Chinese can build more Su-27 clones than they can reliable engines for them, and they keep developing more Su-27 variants. The Chinese J-11 jet fighter is an illegal Chinese copy of the Russian Su-27. It all began legally in 1995, when China paid $2.5 billion for the right to build 200 Su-27s. Russia would supply engines and electronics, with China building the other components according to Russian plans and specifications. But after 95 of the Chinese built aircraft were built Russia cancelled the agreement. Russia claimed that China was using the knowledge acquired with this Su-27 program to build their own copy of the Su-27, the J-11. The Chinese claimed that the J-11 was designed and built using only Chinese technology. There is also an aircraft carrier version of the Su-30 (the Su-33, obtained from Ukraine) that is now in service as the J-15. In 2013 J-16s were spotted. This is a two-seat fighter-bomber similar to the American F-15E and nearly identical to the Russian Su-30MKK. China insists these are all Chinese designs that just happen to bear some resemblance to Russian fighter

 

[airtel]

a Russian defense official conceded that China had produced its own "fake" version of the Su-27SK fighter jet in violation of intellectual property agreements

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3947599