‘China elevates Tibet command to prepare for likely conflict with India’

Discussion in 'Internal Security' started by LETHALFORCE, May 13, 2016.

  1. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    http://www.hindustantimes.com/world...-with-india/story-GF6jrSfL4wAHk9xiXCjQbP.html

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    File photo of soldiers of the People’s Liberation Army during a training session for a military parade in Beijing. (HT Photo)




    China has elevated the authority of its Tibet Military Command as part of preparations for a possible conflict with India, state media reported on Friday, adding the formation will now be directly under the People’s Liberation Army (PLA).

    Placing the Tibet command directly under the PLA ground forces indicates the Chinese government could be readying it to “undertake some kind of military combat mission in the future”, a source told the Global Times, a tabloid closely linked to the Communist Party of China‘s mouthpiece, the People’s Daily.

    “The Tibet Military Command bears great responsibility to prepare for possible conflicts between China and India, and currently it is difficult to secure all the military resources they need,” Song Zhongping, a Beijing-based military expert, told the newspaper.

    The Global Times noted that border disputes between China and India “have not been completely resolved”.

    The formation in Tibet is currently under China's Western Theatre Command, with its headquarters at Chengdu in Sichuan Province. Defence minister Manohar Parrikar visited the Western Theatre Command when he visited China last month.

    The source said the importance of most provincial military commands will be diminished after a change in China’s military structure but the Tibet Military Command still holds a “very important position”. Its elevation will place it “one level higher” than its counterparts in other provinces.


    “The elevation of the authority level is not only an improvement for the troops' designation, but also an expansion of their function and mission,” Zhao Zhong, deputy director of the Political Work Department of the Tibet Military Command, was quoted as saying by China Youth Daily.

    “The promotion shows China is paying great attention to the Tibet Military Command, which will significantly improve the command’s ability to manage and control the region’s military resources, as well as provide better preparation for combat,” Song said.

    Military action under the Tibet command requires “specialist mountain skills and long-range capabilities, which need the deployment of special military resources”, Song added.

    The elevation of the command reflects the attention placed by China on defending its southwestern borders. The higher the authority level, the more military resources the command can mobilise, he said.

    After recent military reforms, most provincial military commands are under the control of the newly established National Defence Mobilisation Department of the Central Military Commission under the chairmanship of President Xi Jinping.

    India and China share a nearly 4,000-km disputed border and fought a brief but bloody war in 1962 over it. The Line of Actual Control (LAC) has mostly been quiet since, though the two armies have been involved in stand-offs caused by differing perceptions of the LAC.

    In April, defence minister Chang Wanquan said China had reacted positively to setting up a military hotline with India on border security after talks with Parrikar in Beijing.


     
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  3. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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  4. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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  5. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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    The fact is that neither China nor India can launch any major offensive against each other due to the Himalayas which forms a massive obstacle for movement of troops, equipment and logistics. The raising of combat commands and reorganization by the Chinese is basically for the defence of Tibet probably in response to the so called 'strike corps' being raised by us against China.

    We would have clobbered the Chinese in 1962, but thanks to Nehru and his failed strategies, he refused to allow the IAF to step in. Had they been employed, the Chinese would have been sent packing within a couple of days with enormous casualties.
     
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  6. sasum

    sasum Atheist but not Communists. Senior Member

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    This piece of news I haven't heard before. In a war, where India had to yield some territory to Chinese, why Nehru wouldn't go for airstrike? didn't we have many airworthy aircrafts? or the commie fighter-pilots went on strike? And even with our modest airpower, if we tried to pulverise Chinese troops, wouldn't the Chinese hit back with 10 times ferocity?
     
  7. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    The US and UK told him that don't deploy airforce and as he was a cia and MI6 stooge, followed the orders.
     
  8. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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  9. raja696

    raja696 Regular Member

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    Its just a response to uyghur visa issue and for letting some activists to meet dalai lama. Add couple of nukes from the inventory in the direction of china and tibet. May be hold a public meeting with dalai lama and modi should advise China that it should settle Tibet dispute through meaningful dialogue and in peaceful approach.
     
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  10. Bornubus

    Bornubus Senior Member Senior Member

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    Blind in 1962, batshit blind in 2016. We couldn't even raise a proposed strike corps while AF squadrons keeps on depleting.

    We can't say this time that Chinese didn't warned us.
     
  11. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    commies in china has a way of testing a neighbors bilateral relations from time to time.. This is just an escalation to test the new warmth between India and US...and those in china will be watching the response to chinese escalation intensely.
     
  12. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    i am more interested in USA response could not care less about the commies


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. 3deffect

    3deffect Regular Member

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    there is no conflict..uneducated chinese (mean Weak in English)just do little troll in borders..and Run away back..
     
  14. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    High ranking general placed there might be something different this time?


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  15. mahesh

    mahesh Regular Member

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    we should cross their border and do the same stuff to give there own medicine back to them. fed of knowing china crossing India border for long long time, when will we do the same...
     
  16. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well, the participation of IAF may not be as effective as you think. Remember, at the time, the main battle was fight in mountainous territories, a nightmare for even modern air force.

    There were 2 examples we study on how effective the air force can strike the enemy in mountains:
    1. In Korea war, US air force failed to stop Chinese army and Chinese logistics line. Comparing the Himalaya, Korea mountain is just a plain. And US air force had far more jets, advanced technologies and experienced pilots.
    2. Kosovo war, even equipped with last 90s technologies, air battle in mountain is still proved a difficult job. The Nato air force imposed almost next to zero damage to those Yugoslavian armour forces in the mountain.
     
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  17. garg_bharat

    garg_bharat Senior Member Senior Member

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    India's current policy is holding the line on the China border. Crossing the Himalayan frontier is a very difficult task.

    I think a large scale war with Chinese is a low probability event. The geography does not allow that.
     
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  18. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    chinese troops are already in POK ..... so does your so called "geography" allow for that ?

    also in building the KKH ( Karakoram highway ) the chinese successfully managed to cut though huge amounts of mountainous rock .....who knows they are not doing the same elsewhere ? ....mao zedong wanted to use nuke energy to blast though the Himalayas ...... perhaps it wasnt possible then but now they have built KKH by cutting though somehow

    a conflict with china is a very likely event ....once they feel there is a large enough advantage and disparity in force strengths ...that is why we are concluding a lot of defence agreements with the usa

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  19. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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    During the Sino-Indian War of 1962, the political leadership did not use the combat air arm of the IAF. General Kaul the Army Commander responsible in NEFA, later confessed, “Lastly, we made a great mistake in not employing our Air Force in a close support role during these operations”.

    Having said that, it is also well documented that Army-Air Force planners had explored use of air power and recommended the same to the Army Chief on more than one occasion. They obviously had done their homework on the feasibility and effectiveness of employing air power in the Himalayas.


    It is a fact that Canberras flew 22 photographic reconnaissance missions between Oct 13 and Nov 11, 1962, during the conflict period, over Aksai Chin, Towang, Se la and Walong area. Some of the sorties were at 300 feet above Chinese concentrations. No damage to the Canberras from Chinese anti aircraft artillery was the proof showing the poor level of Chinese capabilities.

    The information available then was that the Chinese logistical arrangements and supply lines were too stretched and that China did not have sufficient air power in Tibet at that point of time. India’s air strikes would have stopped the Chinese advance and neutralised the initial military successes which they had achieved.


    The IAF could have been employed for battlefield interdiction, attack on areas captured by the Chinese, and attacks as a retribution on deeper targets. This definitely was possible. It could have been done from July 1962 onwards after Chinese had surrounded our forward post at Galwan in Ladakh. And definitely between Oct 24 and Nov 17 when Chinese were building up the road from Bumla to Tawang inside Indian territory and were restocking themselves.

    The first phase of ground fighting lasted from Oct 20-24, 1962. Thereafter, Chinese having established themselves within the Indian territory used the lull period upto Nov 17 to build up a road from Towang to Bumla and restock themselves. During this period they would have been highly vulnerable to IAF. Even during the second phase of the ground war, from Nov 13 to 19, the Chinese would have been highly vulnerable to air power.

    With the only road destroyed, the Chinese did not have a hope in hell to advance further.
    In fact they would have been trapped due to lack of logistics with the vital supply line obliterated. Fortunately, I have been there and know the terrain backwards. Except for a few areas where terrain and vegetation could have provided cover from air, most other areas were above the tree line and thus targets could be easily identified and destroyed.

    The undeniable fact is that the use of combat air power would have turned the tables on Chinese and the 1962 war could well have been a debacle for China.
     
  20. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    The rabbit hole goes even deeper. Nehru had sent a request to the US president Kennedy for fighter jets to fight China; Not one or two odd planes but 12 full squadrons.

    Requesting for 12 squadrons of planes at the ripe moment of an ongoing war, and expecting that any country would have those many spare planes and that they would lend it to you, despite you having antagonized them in every possible international issue since 2 decades, this shows the naivety of Maulana Nehru. No points for guessing that we obviously didn't get those planes. There are other stories but, those are a bit orthogonal to the current thread. Perhaps there should be a separate thread for 1962 debacle.

    This is not very far from the truth. Indian Commies did go on a strike during 1962 war. While it is relatively well known that overtly, the commie civilians collected funds, created propaganda and organized other Indian commies to welcome the Chinese Army to annex India and create a greater communist land, it is a lesser known story that the commies had infiltrated the armed forces with the intention of causing a mutiny in the ranks and succeeded partially, but was it was crushed and buried. Perhaps @Mikesingh might have some insight into that.

    http://www.merinews.com/article/dubious-role-of-communists-in-1962-war/15876909.shtml

    There is one aspect that has either escaped the attention of the analysts or is has deliberately been pushed under the carpet , viz. role of Communists in 1962 war. I do not know if this is collective amnesia of predominantly left oriented media. The dubious record of Communists tells us how parties influenced by foreign ideologies or finding inspiration from outside can weaken the country.

    People vaguely recall that Communist party was pro-Chinese and supported Chinese claims, first on Tibet and then Chinese aggression. Politically conscious citizens also know that split in Communist Party was due to difference in world view as seen through Russian or Chinese glasses. As long as Russia-China were on the same page, the line of Communist party of India was simple – rebroadcast their truths as Communist views about Indian issue. But, with Chinese choosing their own path, our own Communists were in a quandary. The more ‘left of the leftists’ split and formed CPI (M) while other ‘right among the left‘ Russia and Congress oriented ‘revisionist’ group were left in the earlier avatar of CPI. But, we never bothered to critically examine how dependent Communists were on their comrades overseas to decide what was good or bad for India.

    I wished to avoid going too much back into history as I would like to stick to 1962. But, it is important to understand the nature of Communist movement in India. Communists supported 1942 Quit India movement as Russians and British were in opposing camps in initial parts of World War II. But, as soon as they came together, Communists opposed Quit India vehemently and were instrumental in getting many Congress leaders arrested. Immediately after Independence, they launched farmer ‘rebellion’ in Telangana, Tripura and Kerala as they believed that time was ripe for ‘revolution’. However, it abandoned the strategy of armed revolution by 1950 in favour of working within the parliamentary democracy as a strategy, as wikipedia. Later, they went onto support Naxalbari uprising in 1967 (the forerunner of current Naxalite movement). Thus, their actions were not directed by sense of national good, but by their sense of internationalism as seen through Russian or Chinese eyes.

    Coming back to their dubious role dictated by ideological straitjacket, I tried surfing in a little focused manner and came up with some information, of which I am only quoting two documents due to constraints of this column.

    Defenceforumindia.com has an article titled – Role of Indian Communists and 1962 War, dated 30th November, 2009 published by a gentleman with acronym ‘ppgi’. It was gleaned from declassified documents of CIA. The CIA dossier on Communists in these documents is around 165 pages. Infact, the author found that CIA calls the role of Communists during 1962 as ‘high treason by Indian Communists’. It would not be fair to quote the whole article verbatim, so I am just quoting the summary highlight of the article.

    •H K Surjeet (later famous for stitching together a ‘Third Front’ and also supporting minority Congress government for some time) was influenced by Russia to setup an underground organization
    •CPI did proceed to recruit a secret organization within the Indian Army
    •China and Russia insisted that the CPI must develop a standby apparatus capable of armed resistance, while intensifying penetration of Indian Military forces
    •With the PLA now present along the Indian Border the Indian Communist Party had a channel of support for Armed Operations and a potential liberator in the event of mass uprisings
    •In Sept 1959, 4 powerful radio sets had been installed in the office of the China Review in Calcutta to listen to broadcasts from Peking.
    •Chinese Financial Subsidies were given in 1959 to sections of the CPI particularly the left faction strongholds in West Bengal. A foreign supply base was now available for the underground organizations with Chinese occupation of Tibet and other frontier areas
    •A letter asking for collaboration in Indian underground organization work aimed at an eventual revolution, because China has a border with India and can provide arms and supplies
    • Jaipal Singh, head of the illegal organization within the Indian Army decided to reactivate his organization in May 1961 following the hard left faction gaining control of the party.

    The documents reaffirms that Communists looked for direction from Russia and China, sought support and approval and sub-ordinated national interest at the altar of a dubious ideology and subservience to the Chinese. It is noted that Ajoy Ghosh in his report to the Central Executive Committee in February 1959, noted that China-Russia insisted that the CPI must develop a standby apparatus capable of armed resistance, while intensifying penetration of Indian Military forces.

    In April 1959 Ranadive met with the Chinese Ambassador during which he Offered CPIs support to China on Tibet, and advised China to concentrate its attacks on rightist Anti-Chinese Indian leaders like Praja Socialist Party and Jan Sangh.

    In Sept 1960 the first signs of a vertical split in the CPI became evident with the hard left faction comprising Jyoti Basu, Harikishen Singh Surjit, Basavapunniah, Sundarayya and Ranadive supporting the Chinese position on the Indo-Sino border dispute. When Z.A. Ahmed indicated that the Party should take a nationalist stand on Chinese incursions to India, he was severely berated by the West Bengal faction.

    If we go back to news on domestic front at that time and figure out Communist role during 1962, we can see overt and covert Communist support to Chinese war effort. The water transporting union in North East served a strike notice. This created problems for food and supply of other materials to Indo-Chinese border. Nationalist unions Bharatiya Mazdoor Sangh understood the conspiracy and they withdrew all kinds of strikes and put all demands on hold. They gave a call to workers to increase production in defence production and assist in all defence related efforts. They worked hard to restore supplies to the borders. Role of RSS during the war was so noteworthy that Pandit Nehru, no friend of RSS, invited RSS to the next Republic Day parade of January 1963 in which nearly 3000 swayamsevaks took part, as per the book ‘RSS- Vision in Action’ by H V Sheshadri, Chapter 1, Page 30.

    We are reminded once again that a nation can grow only on its own genius, not by transplanting alien ideas in one’s own soil. Look at how Columbia came out of shadow of drug lords and guerrilla wars in just a decade, and racing to the top position in Latin American countries. The Communist folly was also a result of looking at all issues from Russian or Chinese standpoint through Marxist glasses. For Communists nationalism is a decadent thought not in line with feel good internationalism. We can see that Communist movements went their own way in different parts of the world in line with their nationalist characteristics. But, in the meanwhile, India suffered, her security suffered; and we as a nation suffered grievous harm.

    There's also a threat on that here : http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/role-of-indian-communists-and-1962-war.7142/
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2016
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  21. angeldude13

    angeldude13 Lestat De Lioncourt Senior Member

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    I don't think chinese are that dumb to attack India directly. They will play the pressure tactics and fight us to the last dumba&& paki.
     
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