China Economy: News & Discussion

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
746
It fits well with your household debt problem.



It won't be long before every sector of the Chinese economy ends up like Anbang.
hehe,
reality always hurts you so much.

Chinese poeple like saving money . Chinese household-saving was about 10 trillion USD(65.17 trillion RMB) in 2016,and should be more in 2017.
that is to say, Chiense per capita saving is about 7000 USD. the average saving of one typical Chinese family(3-4 family members) has a saving of 20-30K USD.

how about USA???
According to Report on the Economic Well-Being of U.S. Households in 2016 published by Federal Reserve Bank,44% of adults in USA even can not raise Emergency funds of 400 USD .
that is to say, about half of Yankee famlies has no saving at all.


 5月19日,美联储发布了《2016年美国家庭经济状况报告》(Report on the Economic Well-Being of U.S. Households in 2016)。这份调查报告显示,美国居然有44%的成年人连400美元(约合人民币2700元)的应急款都拿不出来。面对突发情况时,他们不得不变卖物品或找朋友借钱。
http://finance.sina.com.cn/world/gjcj/2017-05-28/doc-ifyfqqyh8843619.shtml
whether you like or not, Chinese people enjoy their life....and CHinese quality of life is raised rapidly.

the world is full of CHinese tourists now, chinese can tell which country is admirable and which one is $hithole by visiting them themselve,instead by listening to your words....
 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
746
Is china a 'rich society'?


some medias declared that china is a rich society based on a study of EC(Engel coefficient)

of course,as usual,chinese government firmly denies it.



chinese EC(Engel coefficient) is 29.3% in 2017.

EC=food expenditure/total expenditure.

the less EC is,the richer the society is.
according to UN, one society is rich one ,when its EC is below 30%.



中国已进入富足国家行列?统计局:要有清醒认识
分享到:
137
2018-03-14 18:17:20字号:国家统计局发布2017年国民经济和社会发展报告。该报告显示,2017年全年,全国居民人均可支配收入25974元,比上年增长9.0%,扣除价格因素,实际增长7.3%。全国居民人均消费支出18322元,比上年增长7.1%,扣除价格因素,实际增长5.4%。

恩格尔系数为29.3%,比上年下降0.8个百分点,其中城镇为28.6%,农村为31.2%。
 
Last edited:

amoy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
5,982
Likes
1,849
Lets see... HNA has $90 billion in debt, Anbang has a massive $162 billion and CEFC has $19 billion. All of which are unable to service it.
U somehow exaggerated their risks. Apart from the scams & corruption, Anbang for example holds a lot of good assets by acquisition -
Anbang Keeps Acquisitions Rolling After Dropping Starwood Bid

And now that
- China Asks Waldorf Owner Anbang to Sell Assets
- China Regulator Seizes Anbang

So is HNA acting too -
HNA Unloads More Land in Hong Kong as Selling

They're being bailed out, like US did to AIA, Citibank etc.

In response to
Anbang’s fall is a warning to acquisition targets
Leverage and opacity bedevil China’s outbound M&A ambitions


latest reform -


China banking, insurance regulators set to merge

China will merge the CBRC (China Banking Regulatory Commission) and CIRC (China Insurance Regulatory Commission)

In a long-awaited move to streamline and tighten oversight of the financial system in the world's second-biggest economy,
 
Last edited:

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
U somehow exaggerated their risks. Apart from the scams & corruption, Anbang for example holds a lot of good assets by acquisition -
Anbang Keeps Acquisitions Rolling After Dropping Starwood Bid

And now that
- China Asks Waldorf Owner Anbang to Sell Assets
- China Regulator Seizes Anbang

So is HNA acting too -
HNA Unloads More Land in Hong Kong as Selling

They're being bailed out, like US did to AIA, Citibank etc.

In response to
Anbang’s fall is a warning to acquisition targets
Leverage and opacity bedevil China’s outbound M&A ambitions


latest reform -


China banking, insurance regulators set to merge

China will merge the CBRC (China Banking Regulatory Commission) and CIRC (China Insurance Regulatory Commission)

In a long-awaited move to streamline and tighten oversight of the financial system in the world's second-biggest economy,
Speaking to Anbang, the root of the problem was that they were selling speculative wealth management products with a two year term, once the term was over everyone started withdrawing their money. In April 2016 they had revenue of $5.92 billion for that month, in April 2017 it had dropped to $218 million. It was one massive Ponzi scheme. The Chinese government is bailing it out so there isn't a panic by it's customers who would surely crash it like they did the stock market a few years ago. They are sitting on a pile of debt $162 billion tall with assets that are only worth 1/4th of that and revenue that has totally collapsed. It isn't even a viable company, it never was.
 

amoy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
5,982
Likes
1,849
Speaking to Anbang, the root of the problem was that they were selling speculative wealth management products with a two year term, once the term was over everyone started withdrawing their money. In April 2016 they had revenue of $5.92 billion for that month, in April 2017 it had dropped to $218 million. It was one massive Ponzi scheme. The Chinese government is bailing it out so there isn't a panic by it's customers who would surely crash it like they did the stock market a few years ago. They are sitting on a pile of debt $162 billion tall with assets that are only worth 1/4th of that and revenue that has totally collapsed. It isn't even a viable company, it never was.
Whatever "INSURANCE" is a Ponzi scheme IMHO.

With the govmt take-over of Anbang, its customers are safe, but the same can't be spoken about Mr. Wu the "former" owner of AB (very likely ending up serving a long-term in jail).

[assets that are only worth 1/4th of that]== hmmm 1/4? Not sure how u come up with the evaluation, from the thin air??

IMO even without XI's anti-graft campaigns, ambitions of HNA or AB would go bust one day or another, owing to their unsatiable overseas acquisitions + debts piled up beyond their means.

And by divestment of assets + bail-out they'll be able to overcome their liquidity shortfall . They're like "too big to fall".
 
Last edited:

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag
Whatever "INSURANCE" is a Ponzi scheme IMHO.
It wasn't even insurance that was their downfall. The wealth management products they were selling had double digit returns, that immediately makes it a clear Ponzi scheme. Once they ran out of money to pay out the ludicrous terms their revenue dropped next to nothing.

With the govmt take-over of Anbang, its customers are safe, but the same can't be spoken about Mr. Wu the "former" owner of AB (very likely ending up serving a long-term in jail).
So the Chinese government is going to start backing Ponzi investment schemes? Nice... anything to keep public order.

[assets that are only worth 1/4th of that]== hmmm 1/4? Not sure how u come up with the evaluation, from the thin air??
“Anbang has little value beyond the assets it has bought,” one senior executive at the company told the Financial Times.

https://www.ft.com/content/1823e4d6-19b0-11e8-aaca-4574d7dabfb6

Which is less than $40 billion so 1/4th was being generous.

IMO even without XI's anti-graft campaigns, ambitions of HNA or AB would go bust one day or another, owing to their unsatiable overseas acquisitions + debts piled up beyond their means.
Their overseas acquisitions were the only assets of value. Half of the Shanghai stock exchange are in the same boat as Anbang.

And by divestment of assets + bail-out they'll be able to overcome their liquidity shortfall . They're like "too big to fall".
Why bother? the company itself doesn't have any value.
 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
746
payslips shows teachers' salary in one chinese city has increased 4000% in the past 27 years.

one retired 78~year~old teacher in chinese Qindao city collected his 325 payslips During 1991-2017.
the teacher showed the public those payslips .

those payslips shows that the teacher's monthly salary was about 50 USD(287RMB) in 1991,and was about 1300USD(8104RMB) in 2017.

measured by RMB,his salary increased 4000
% During the 27 years.(measured by USD, it increased 2600%)

BTW
if one system can have the salary of its ordinary people increase 4000% in 27 years,then it is surely not a collpasing one ,isn't it?

Armand, do you agree?



27年工资翻了40倍!78岁青岛退休教师晒工资条
991年,

张伟源的月平均工资287元,

到了九十年代末,

月工资就涨到了1600多元。

进入新世纪,他退休后的工资依旧持续上涨,

2005年月均收入破五千,

而到了2016年,年收入已经超过了10万元。http://wap.qingdaonews.com/view.php?aid=800531


 
Last edited:

amoy

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2010
Messages
5,982
Likes
1,849
Xi Reiterates Commitment to Opening Up Economy

Xi said the country will ease restrictions on foreign ownership of local auto plants and cut the car import tariff soon. The president said China’s manufacturing sector has essentially opened already, though restrictions remain in sectors including the automobile, aircraft and shipping industries.

China has long limited foreign companies to no more than 50% ownership of any local car manufacturing facility, and currently imposes a 25% levy on auto imports. However, last year the government said it would begin to loosen ownership restrictions in the developing new-energy vehicle sector.

Xi also said the country will expedite the opening of the insurance sector, allowing foreign firms to set up subsidiaries in China and have a greater business scope.
 

john70

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
708
Likes
1,019
Country flag
CHINA’S ECONOMY ISN’T OPENING. IT’S CLOSING – AND IT’S HURTING ITSELF
An advanced economy requires ideas, interaction, and competition – all things that Beijing is shutting down and turning away from

http://www.scmp.com/week-asia/opini...nt-opening-its-closing-and-its-hurting-itself





President Xi Jinping’s speech to business leaders at the Boao Forum, in which he announced the further opening up of the Chinese economy, seems to have calmed markets’ fears of a potential trade war with the United States.

His speech at the forum, which is often referred to as “Asia’s Davos”, follows his widely lauded address to the World Economic Forum (the “real” Davos) in 2017, when Xi with the support of Chinese state media encouraged the world to see China as the new global defender of openness. But away from media events with global CEOs, the reality of Chinese openness appears radically different.

Despite the rhetoric, China remains a closed economy. A February IMF study on measures of trade and investment openness found that China was not only more closed than the average developed economy, but more closed than the average emerging market economy.


These are realities foreigners deal with every day. Though agreeing to let Visa and Mastercard enter China as part of its World Trade Organisation membership, China has delayed doing so seemingly infinitely. After losing a WTO case to the Obama administration in 2012 and telling US President Donald Trump they would be allowed to operate in China, the world is still waiting for Beijing to approve their entry.

Beijing has agreed to let Visa and Mastercard into China – but has delayed doing so. Photo: AP

Even the so-called investment negatives list that tells foreigners where they can invest, while shrinking moderately last year, remains sizeable. If not required to have a majority Chinese partner, foreigners remain restricted or prohibited across a wide range of industries, most of which have no national security implications. For a country selling itself as the new leader of openness, there is no indication it is willing to let foreigners in. FDI flows have increased this decade by an average annual rate of just 3.1 per cent compared with 9.2 per cent the previous decade.

Just this week it was announced that all scientific data generated in China would need to be vetted by the government before it could be published. If Beijing is seeking to attract high-quality research and development investment while demanding to control scientific data generated in China, it may want to rethink its openness mantra.

The logo for Beijing ByteDance’s Jinri Toutiao (Today’s Headlines) mobile app at the company's headquarters in Beijing. Photo: Bloomberg

The closing of China is apparent in mundane ways with even domestic firms who want to be compliant. Toutiao – which aggregates news and videos from hundreds of media outlets – was shut down by censors for a few days this week. CEO Zhang Yiming said he would permanently shut down humour content app Neihan Duanzi. This came despite Toutiao already employing 6,000 censors and planning to hire 4,000 more. The so-called openness being touted at the Boao Forum seems far from the reality of business in China.

While Beijing may complain about American protectionism, Chinese regulators have done more to shut down Chinese investment abroad. Beijing’s words ring hollow regarding foreign intervention when it blocks most proposed outward investments by Chinese investors.


What makes this closing of the Chinese economy so unnecessary is its competitiveness. China has produced innovative tech giants at the cutting edge of technology. From robotics to consumer goods, China does not need the protectionism Beijing wants to hobble the economy with.

The closing of the Chinese mind is harmful for the evolution of the Chinese economy and China as a rising power. To be an advanced economy, it requires ideas, interaction, and competition – all things that China is shutting down and turning away from. ■
 

john70

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
708
Likes
1,019
Country flag
China records rare trade deficit … but surplus with US still looms large despite Donald Trump’s trade war threats

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/econ...re-trade-deficit-surplus-us-still-looms-large

excerpts :
....Chinese exports fall back unexpectedly in March but prospect of US tariffs fails to alter trade balance between world’s two largest economies

....China’s overseas shipments in March dropped slightly in US dollar terms – falling by 2.7 per cent last month compared with a year earlier – the General Administration of Customs said, a sharp reversal from a surge of 44.5 per cent in February.

....Chinese imports increased by 14.4 per cent, leaving China with a US$4.98 billion trade deficit for the month.





 

john70

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2011
Messages
708
Likes
1,019
Country flag
China’s Economic Numbers Have a Credibility Problem

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-19/china-s-economic-stats-have-a-credibility-problem


By
Enda Curran
April 19, 2018, 3:30 PM GMT+5:30

ILLUSTRATION: 731
China’s gross domestic product grew 6.8 percent in the first quarter, smack on its pace in the preceding quarter, which was unchanged from the quarter before that. It’s a well-established pattern: Since 2015, China’s quarterly growth figures haven’t varied by more than 0.1 percentage point on a year-on-year basis. That contrasts with the U.S., where swings of a full percentage point from quarter to quarter aren’t uncommon.


Getting an accurate read on the world’s second-largest economy has never been more important. China supplied around one-third of global growth in 2017, up from 18 percent in 2007, according to Bloomberg calculations. That means an economist working at the Reserve Bank of Australia in Sydney and a number cruncher in the sales department at Vale SA, the giant iron ore exporter based in Rio de Janeiro, both need Chinese data to help generate their forecasts. And with officials in Beijing promising to open the nation’s financial markets to the outside world, the ranks of investors who rely on this information are bound to grow.



Note: China's economy grew in 2009, but the world's contracted.

The world has long suspected that China fudges its numbers, which is why the investment community has assembled an array of alternative measures, including rail cargo volume, electricity use, and satellite imagery of factory sites, to gauge economic output. “I suggest investors ignore China’s GDP growth rate,” says Andy Rothman, a former U.S. diplomat in Beijing who’s now an investment strategist at Matthews Asia, a money manager. “There are so many other data points which help us understand the health of the Chinese economy and which we can verify by comparison with private data.” High-frequency metrics on movie ticket sales, iron ore imports, and orders for bulldozers are considered a more useful measure of demand in key sectors from consumption to construction. Bloomberg Economics’ monthly growth tracker, which shows more variability than the official GDP number, registered growth of 6.97 percent in March.



The variety of proxy indicators available can’t completely dispel investors’ concerns about a lack of transparency that makes pricing risk in China especially difficult. “If the official data lacks credibility, alternative narratives—like an economy on the verge of a hard landing—can take hold,” says Tom Orlik of Bloomberg Economics.



There are those who argue that as China’s economy matures, the quality of its data will improve. In a sign that Beijing is prodding provincial cadres to clean up their act, officials in Inner Mongolia and Tianjin have been publicly called out for exaggerating growth numbers.

Another marker of progress is that China’s National Bureau of Statistics has begun releasing monthly unemployment figures based on surveys—which is how the U.S. and European countries measure joblessness. The latest report showed the jobless rate rose marginally to 5.1 percent in March from 5 percent a month earlier. “I believe China will use the pressures that come with market opening as a way to propel these changes,” says Stephen Jen, chief executive officer of Eurizon SLJ Capital Ltd. in London.

The stability of quarterly GDP numbers isn’t necessarily a sign that Beijing is cooking the books. The combination of a one-party system and a centrally controlled economy means China’s policymakers can intervene quickly and massively when growth drivers wobble—by launching a huge public works program, for instance. “This is a political system that controls market behavior through tools that do not show up in the numbers used in the mathematical models created by and for Western economies,” says Pauline Loong, managing director at researcher Asia-Analytica in Hong Kong. “Dismissing this difference as irrelevant to economic forecasting is to run the risk of ending always slightly behind the curve in identifying what drives growth in China and what generates profits.” —With James Mayger and Jeff Kearns

BOTTOM LINE - China’s growth figures haven’t varied by more than 0.1 percentage point since 2015, whereas variations of a full percentage point are the norm in the U.S.


 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
746
China’s Economic Numbers Have a Credibility Problem

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-19/china-s-economic-stats-have-a-credibility-problem


By
Enda Curran
April 19, 2018, 3:30 PM GMT+5:30

ILLUSTRATION: 731
China’s gross domestic product grew 6.8 percent in the first quarter, smack on its pace in the preceding quarter, which was unchanged from the quarter before that. It’s a well-established pattern: Since 2015, China’s quarterly growth figures haven’t varied by more than 0.1 percentage point on a year-on-year basis. That contrasts with the U.S., where swings of a full percentage point from quarter to quarter aren’t uncommon.


Getting an accurate read on the world’s second-largest economy has never been more important. China supplied around one-third of global growth in 2017, up from 18 percent in 2007, according to Bloomberg calculations. That means an economist working at the Reserve Bank of Australia in Sydney and a number cruncher in the sales department at Vale SA, the giant iron ore exporter based in Rio de Janeiro, both need Chinese data to help generate their forecasts. And with officials in Beijing promising to open the nation’s financial markets to the outside world, the ranks of investors who rely on this information are bound to grow.



Note: China's economy grew in 2009, but the world's contracted.

The world has long suspected that China fudges its numbers, which is why the investment community has assembled an array of alternative measures, including rail cargo volume, electricity use, and satellite imagery of factory sites, to gauge economic output. “I suggest investors ignore China’s GDP growth rate,” says Andy Rothman, a former U.S. diplomat in Beijing who’s now an investment strategist at Matthews Asia, a money manager. “There are so many other data points which help us understand the health of the Chinese economy and which we can verify by comparison with private data.” High-frequency metrics on movie ticket sales, iron ore imports, and orders for bulldozers are considered a more useful measure of demand in key sectors from consumption to construction. Bloomberg Economics’ monthly growth tracker, which shows more variability than the official GDP number, registered growth of 6.97 percent in March.



The variety of proxy indicators available can’t completely dispel investors’ concerns about a lack of transparency that makes pricing risk in China especially difficult. “If the official data lacks credibility, alternative narratives—like an economy on the verge of a hard landing—can take hold,” says Tom Orlik of Bloomberg Economics.



There are those who argue that as China’s economy matures, the quality of its data will improve. In a sign that Beijing is prodding provincial cadres to clean up their act, officials in Inner Mongolia and Tianjin have been publicly called out for exaggerating growth numbers.

Another marker of progress is that China’s National Bureau of Statistics has begun releasing monthly unemployment figures based on surveys—which is how the U.S. and European countries measure joblessness. The latest report showed the jobless rate rose marginally to 5.1 percent in March from 5 percent a month earlier. “I believe China will use the pressures that come with market opening as a way to propel these changes,” says Stephen Jen, chief executive officer of Eurizon SLJ Capital Ltd. in London.

The stability of quarterly GDP numbers isn’t necessarily a sign that Beijing is cooking the books. The combination of a one-party system and a centrally controlled economy means China’s policymakers can intervene quickly and massively when growth drivers wobble—by launching a huge public works program, for instance. “This is a political system that controls market behavior through tools that do not show up in the numbers used in the mathematical models created by and for Western economies,” says Pauline Loong, managing director at researcher Asia-Analytica in Hong Kong. “Dismissing this difference as irrelevant to economic forecasting is to run the risk of ending always slightly behind the curve in identifying what drives growth in China and what generates profits.” —With James Mayger and Jeff Kearns

BOTTOM LINE - China’s growth figures haven’t varied by more than 0.1 percentage point since 2015, whereas variations of a full percentage point are the norm in the U.S.


you should have paid more attention to people's payslips ,intead of the data released by governments.



if payslips shows teachers' salary in one chinese city has increased 4000% in the past 27 years,then China's growth surely stands there.
 

Flame Thrower

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2016
Messages
1,675
Likes
2,731
you should have paid more attention to people's payslips ,intead of the data released by governments.



if payslips shows teachers' salary in one chinese city has increased 4000% in the past 27 years,then China's growth surely stands there.
Stop the bullshit about payslips.....

My mom started with 960 rupees as a govt primary school teacher and now she is earning around 65K (completed 18 years of service and 13 more years to go). She is a govt high school teacher

My Mom's friend is now earning more than 2 lakhs now a degree college principal.

Don't show me one case, look the data as whole. Macro economics is entirely different thing where silly logics don't work.
 
Last edited:

Armand2REP

CHINI EXPERT
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
13,811
Likes
6,734
Country flag

nongaddarliberal

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
3,982
Likes
22,635
Country flag
China's GDP is now estimated to be 14 trillion. Despite growing 1% faster than them for the past few years we haven't altered the 5:1 ratio of our economies. Nor have we brought military spending any closer to theirs. We need at least 4% growth differential if we want to alter the geopolitical equation.
 

aditya10r

Mera Bharat mahan
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2016
Messages
5,718
Likes
11,618
Country flag
China's GDP is now estimated to be 14 trillion. Despite growing 1% faster than them for the past few years we haven't altered the 5:1 ratio of our economies. Nor have we brought military spending any closer to theirs. We need at least 4% growth differential if we want to alter the geopolitical equation.
Hmmmm

Actually that is possible,with growing forex reserves,improving import export,stability in rupee and reformist government we can achieve such numbers.

Once we start posting trade surplus which I guess will happen around 2023/24 then rupee will appreciate really fast(1.5-2%),inflation will be around like 3-3.5% and a stable rupee and industrial policies with better labour and land laws economy should be able to grow 8-9%.That is a good number.Conservatively 11.5% to 14%,I will pick the 12%.

For china they will have a much lower inflation figure(2.5%)and slightly high currency appreciation,if they don't increase the value of yuan they stand at the risk of leaving a big chunk(50%+) of china trapped in middle income,they must undertake this step to move forward.Their growth rate will be around 5.5-6% in that era(2023/24).So that is like conservative figure of 10% to 11%.But the catch is that this number will slowly come down,their inflation numbers will reach like less than 2% and growth rate like 3-4% by the end of next decade while India will have a good 8-9% growth rate,3% inflation and 1.5-2% growth rate,there you have a good differennce between nominal growth of both economies.

Pick whatever you like.

And no way indian economy is gonna takeover china in next 30 years,it's not happening in next 30 years that's for sure.But we will surely bridge the gap from currently 5:1 to <3:1 by 2030 and further on.

If we achieve 4% difference in nominal growth rate then our economies will be very similar in size by the end of 2060, something impossible.
 

badguy2000

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
5,133
Likes
746
Stop the bullshit about payslips.....

My mom started with 960 rupees as a govt primary school teacher and now she is earning around 65K (completed 18 years of service and 13 more years to go). She is a govt high school teacher

My Mom's friend is now earning more than 2 lakhs now a degree college principal.

Don't show me one case, look the data as whole. Macro economics is entirely different thing where silly logics don't work.
haha,
If Chinese payslips show the prosperity of China it is all downhill from here...



http://www.scmp.com/news/china/soci...wner-eastern-china-pays-workers-290000-bricks
haha,

do you know how much such chinese building peasant~workers earn usually?

that is usually 60K ~100k rupees/month +,higher than chinese avreage ones(30-50k rupees/month),because of labor shortage

chinese peasant workers sre different from indian ones. they earn more than most indian white~collars(mid~class) so called.


 
Last edited:

rockdog

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
4,034
Likes
2,933
Country flag
haha,

haha,

do you know how much such chinese building peasant~workers earn usually?

that is usually 60K ~100k rupees/month +,higher than chinese avreage ones(30-50k rupees/month),because of labor shortage

chinese peasant workers sre different from indian ones. they earn more than most indian white~collars(mid~class) so called.


EU Nations in eastern Europe, like Hungary, Cezch, their office worker are even lower than this, somewhere like 800-1000 Euro per month...
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top