China Economy: News & Discussion

tharun

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China's total debt projected to reach 327% of GDP by 2022!



https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-06/china-takes-a-hard-look-at-corporate-borrowers


Holy smoke! The figures I quoted above were actually only the increase in debt from 2008 until 2016! A growth fueled by MASSIVE debt!

Meanwhile, high government officials and their cronies are scrambling to hide their stash of massive corrupt wealth in foreign countries. The ordinary Chinese are in for a mighty disappointment...
Why chinese numbers are not trust worthy because there is no transparency in there numbers and govt revenue and debt data.
In india RBI will publish how many notes are printed but in china god knows.
So they can hide debt and inflate numbers and print as many notes they can.
 

ezsasa

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China's total debt projected to reach 327% of GDP by 2022!



https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-06/china-takes-a-hard-look-at-corporate-borrowers


Holy smoke! The figures I quoted above were actually only the increase in debt from 2008 until 2016! A growth fueled by MASSIVE debt!

Meanwhile, high government officials and their cronies are scrambling to hide their stash of massive corrupt wealth in foreign countries. The ordinary Chinese are in for a mighty disappointment...
As of today, if Chinese economy falls it would be worse than 2008 recession.
 

badguy2000

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Why chinese numbers are not trust worthy because there is no transparency in there numbers and govt revenue and debt data.
In india RBI will publish how many notes are printed but in china god knows.
So they can hide debt and inflate numbers and print as many notes they can.
all data of china are cooked. there is nothing worrred.easy.
CHina is to collpase one day.

its economy is full of bubble. maybe tomorrow when you wake up, CHinese wii become a large slum full of beggars.

autocracy like china is doomed. only democarcy like India can have a sustainable growth.
 

tharun

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all data of china are cooked. there is nothing worrred.easy.
CHina is to collpase one day.

its economy is full of bubble. maybe tomorrow when you wake up, CHinese wii become a large slum full of beggars.

autocracy like china is doomed. only democarcy like India can have a sustainable growth.
Can't you fucking understand what i'm saying?
Show me the transparency like us in terms of revenues and expenditure and central bank.
Don't use your communist brain use common man's.
 

Villager

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Thousand of Uighur Muslims detained in Chinese 're-education' camps

Paramilitary policemen stand in formation as they take part in an anti-terrorism oath-taking rally, in Kashgar, Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region,CREDIT: REUTERS

More than 100,000 minority Uighur Muslims are reportedly being indefinitely detained in overcrowded “re-education” camps on China’s western border.

The detention centres - reminiscent of Mao-era laogai forced labour camps - are said to be holding around 120,000 Muslims in Kahgar, a prefecture in China’s northwest Xinjiang province.

The estimated number of detainees was reportedly given to Radio Free Asia (RFA), a US-funded news organisation, by a Kashgar security chief on the condition of anonymity.

According to RFA’s report, the re-education camps became inundated with detainees around China’s 19th Communist Party Congress last October. The inmates are deemed to have “extremist” or “politically incorrect” views, which can include excessive praying or accessing banned websites, reports Human Rights Watch.

China claims the institutions are merely schools for "extremism eradication" that teach Chinese language, and Chinese laws on Islam and political activity. China officially abolished its “Re-education Through Labour" camps in 2013, but charities have warned they have morphed into modern brainwashing institutions.

Xinjiang, where the majority of China’s 10 million Uighur Muslims live, has seen years of bloodshed, including ethic uprisings, anti-government riots and terrorist attacks targeting civilians. The most deadly recent assaults both occurred in 2014. A car bomb killed 31 in Xinjiang’s capital city of Urumqi, and a machete attack killed 29 at a train station in Kunming, Yunnan province.


The Chinese government has made a huge push to control the region in the past two years, installing Communist hardliner Chen Quanguo as the party secretary of Xinjiang in the summer of 2016. Chen is credited with containing a surge of self-immolations through a series of repressive policies, such as high-tech surveillance and social controls, in his previous role as party secretary of the Tibet Anonymous Region.

In February 2017, Beijing also sent thousands of gun-toting troops to march the streets of Urumqi in an “all-out offensive” against terrorism. China defends its heavy-handed methods as “extremism eradication”, and insists the re-education centers are an important weapon in the fight against radicalism.

One man, who fled the country for Turkey, has told the BBC he'll "pay for the bullet" to kill his family to save them from a detention camp.

The Telegraph made calls to the Kashgar local government, foreign affairs office and public security bureau, but officials were unavailable for comment.

One source told RFA that the camps, often housed in converted schools and government buildings, have become so crowded that inmates, now sleeping 14 to a room that once held 8, can only lie on their sides because there is no room to lie flat. Human Rights Watch claims the centres are a form of "brainwashing".



 
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badguy2000

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Can't you fucking understand what i'm saying?
Show me the transparency like us in terms of revenues and expenditure and central bank.
Don't use your communist brain use common man's.
well,

1. the revenues and expendicture are all there on the websits of CHinese government already.
you don't know it,just because you can not read chinese.
thus ,your accusation of 'transparency' is invalid(for it is because you have the ablity of reading),just as eunuchs's accusation of vigor is invalid( for it is because eunuche have the ablity of fucking).


2. if you indeed are not confident to learn reading chinese, you can try learning how chinese economy go by collecting the sale data in Chinese market,released by transnational companies like Gerneral Motor,Apple,Airbus,Mercedis_Benzi and trade data with China realised by 'democracy' like USA.

Per capita Apple's sale in USA,CHina and India can tell you the real purchase power of local people.
the per capita sale of household appliance(cars,AC,washing machines,TV) and electricity can tell the real quality of life in different area.
 
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SexyChineseLady

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Nice! Another Gordan Chang-like “end of China” predictor.

Chang wrote the “The Coming Collapse of China” in 2001. China’s GDP in 2001 was $1Trillon.

China’s GDP is $13T today.

Most international economic organizations such as CEBR predict China will have a GDP of $35T by 2030.

We’ll see if the second coming of Gordan Chang is correct.

But I must say if this guy is as accurate as the original Gordon Chang, China will be many, many times more powerful and wealthy in 2030.

LOL
 

asianobserve

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HNA Is Victim of Conspiracy Against China: Co-Chairman

HNA Group Co.’s second-most-senior executive argued that the group is a victim of a conspiracy against the Chinese government and one of the country’s most loyal companies, according to a speech to fellow board members.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...f-conspiracy-against-china-co-chairman-claims

The gull of this Chinese! His company has been borrowing left and right with no regard to whether or not it can actually pay its debts and when they can no longer pay then they blame somebody for their incompetence!

 

nongaddarliberal

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China will slow down, but they will not collapse. Their real growth rate is much lower than the official 6.9%. But they are already making inroads towards a high end consumer driven economy away from low end cheap labour fueled economy. They are investing a lot into R&D and higher education, especially concerning AI. And remember, they have already completed the most difficult phase of a developing country, which is to build all the necessary infrastructure.

They have started doing what the Americans started doing in the 20th century, which is to attract high end talent, and provide all the necessary money and facilities for them to innovate. How they will manage their massive debt remains to be seen. But since that debt is mostly between one branch of government to another, it can be manipulated and written off.
 
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sthf

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all data of china are cooked. there is nothing worrred.easy.
CHina is to collpase one day.

its economy is full of bubble. maybe tomorrow when you wake up, CHinese wii become a large slum full of beggars.

autocracy like china is doomed. only democarcy like India can have a sustainable growth.
What crawled up your butt?

Your own government is accepting that provinces are fudging data so why are you being a jackass and dragging India in Chinese data fudging?

https://qz.com/887709/chinas-liaoni...t-inflated-gdp-figures-from-2011-to-2014/amp/
 

badguy2000

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What crawled up your butt?

Your own government is accepting that provinces are fudging data so why are you being a jackass and dragging India in Chinese data fudging?

https://qz.com/887709/chinas-liaoni...t-inflated-gdp-figures-from-2011-to-2014/amp/
ground reality need not be justified with data.

the ground reality is that :
1.China has much better infrasturctures than all devoloping coutries and many developed countries .

2. Chinese people enjoy a higher quality of life than most developing countries.
in fact,many Chinese tourist think that the real quality of life in moderate developed economies is lower than that of costal China like Zhejiang and Guangdong,after they visit many moderate developed economies like Taiwan,portugal,Greece and S.korea.and that is why millions of Taiwanese now work in mailand China for better salary.

anyhow,as a whole,Chinese people can afford necessory facilites of modern life such as household appliance(air conditionor,washing machine....),auto and so on more easily than most of devleoping countries.


3.the salary of ordinary chinese is still growing and their real quality of life is gettting better and better.


BTW.
the nationwide GDp of CHina is not based on the data provided by provinces's local governmentst,but by the units admistrated directly by Chinese center government,because Beijing distrusts the data of local government.

Besides, all provincal governments once usually tend to bring transprovince economy activities to their GDP,but now they tend to ignore it,because local government have to hand on tax to the center government for the transprovincal economy activity,after value_added_tax system reformed in china last year.
 
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badguy2000

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1.
the starting salary of college graudates in Taiwan is usually 800USD(22K tawian dolalr or 5K RMB)/month ,but taiwanese youth can hardly get a rise until they retire.

the starting salary of college graduates in costal CHina is almost as same as that in Taiwan (800USD or 5K RMB/month), but the salary can be easily doubled in 3-5 years.

So many Taiwanese youth rushes to mainland China for better future.

2. cars are usually the most expensive household appliance of ordinary families. so the per capita sale of auto is a good metric to measure the affordability of people.

in 2017, 1.3 billion indians bought 4M new autos ,thus every 1K indians bought 3.08 new autos this year.its per capita nominal GDP is 1.7K USD this year.
http://finance.sina.com.cn/stock/us...financepagepc&mod=f&loc=3&r=9&doct=0&rfunc=15

in 2017, 1.3 billion CHinese bought 29M new autos ,thus every 1K chinese bought 22.3 new autos this year.its per capita nominal GDP is 8K USD this year.
http://www.mofcom.gov.cn/article/i/jyjl/l/201705/20170502569792.shtml

in 2017, 120M Mexicans bought 1.7M new autos, thus every 1K Mexicans bought 14.17 new autos this year.its per capita nominal GDP is 10K USD this year.
http://auto.163.com/18/0117/01/D8AL5UUN00084IKA.html

in 2016, 43M Argentinans bought 0.53M new autos,every 1K Argentinans bought 12.32 new autos this year.its per capita nominal GDP is 12K USD this year.
http://www.chyxx.com/industry/201701/485464.html

in 2016, 21M Taiwanese bought 0.35M new autos,every 1K Argentinans bought 16.67 new autos this year.its per capita nominal GDP is 22K USD this year.
http://www.chyxx.com/industry/201701/485496.html

in 2016, 67M frenchmen bought 2.1M new autos,every 1K frenchmen bought 31.34 autos this year.its per capita nominal GDP is 30+K USD this year.
http://k.sina.com.cn/article_6398295107_17d5e3c430010034bm.html

Metric by , you can easily find generally speaking the more its per capita GDP is , the more new auto every 1K residents afford/buy,but with China the sole exception.

metri
 
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badguy2000

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generally speaking, the more its per capita GDP is , the more new auto every 1K residents afford/buy.

but China is the sole exception



per capita new auto sale of chinese people is more than many economies with per capita nominal GDP of 10-25k USD.

the per capita new auto sale in costal china in fact is almost those 30kUSD economies like france.


that means that chinese people may be richer than its per capita nominal GDP (8k) shows.
 
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ezsasa

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ground reality need not be justified with data.

the ground reality is that :
1.China has much better infrasturctures than all devoloping coutries and many developed countries .

2. Chinese people enjoy a higher quality of life than most developing countries.
in fact,many Chinese tourist think that the real quality of life in moderate developed economies is lower than that of costal China like Zhejiang and Guangdong,after they visit many moderate developed economies like Taiwan,portugal,Greece and S.korea.and that is why millions of Taiwanese now work in mailand China for better salary.

anyhow,as a whole,Chinese people can afford necessory facilites of modern life such as household appliance(air conditionor,washing machine....),auto and so on more easily than most of devleoping countries.


3.the salary of ordinary chinese is still growing and their real quality of life is gettting better and better.


BTW.
the nationwide GDp of CHina is not based on the data provided by provinces's local governmentst,but by the units admistrated directly by Chinese center government,because Beijing distrusts the data of local government.

Besides, all provincal governments once usually tend to bring transprovince economy activities to their GDP,but now they tend to ignore it,because local government have to hand on tax to the center government for the transprovincal economy activity,after value_added_tax system reformed in china last year.
Chinese urban citizens quality of life improved in the last 10-15 years..

Other western countries were having much better quality of life since WW2.

The question is whether China will be able to sustain this quality of life for next 50 years.
 

badguy2000

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Chinese urban citizens quality of life improved in the last 10-15 years..

Other western countries were having much better quality of life since WW2.

The question is whether China will be able to sustain this quality of life for next 50 years.
you should have questioned whether 1 billion industrialized population in western countries sustain their current quality of life,when they are facing the fierce compition from 1.3 billion industrialized population from china.


frankly speaking,
those 'fake developed economies' without competive industries like greece,portugal will be driven out of 'developed economy club' first .

those small developed economies with only a few key industry like Tainwan would be driven out of 'developed economies' second,if the key industry like semiconductors were to defeated by mainland china.
those large developed economies like USA/japan/france would be remain in 'the club of developed economies',but real quality of life of their grassroot class will go down inevitablely.



at last, the real quality of life in developed economies will go down inevitibally while chinese quality of life goes up.
some of developed economies will be dirven out of the league ,as Argentina was.
 
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sthf

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ground reality need not be justified with data.
Utterly moronic of you to say that. The data that supports your weird claims like your rant below is valid but the official Chinese claims that the GDP data fudging has been going for a long time "need not be justified".

1.
the starting salary of college graudates in Taiwan is usually 800USD(22K tawian dolalr or 5K RMB)/month ,but taiwanese youth can hardly get a rise until they retire.

the starting salary of college graduates in costal CHina is almost as same as that in Taiwan (800USD or 5K RMB/month), but the salary can be easily doubled in 3-5 years.

So many Taiwanese youth rushes to mainland China for better future.

2. cars are usually the most expensive household appliance of ordinary families. so the per capita sale of auto is a good metric to measure the affordability of people.

in 2017, 1.3 billion indians bought 4M new autos ,thus every 1K indians bought 3.08 new autos this year.its per capita nominal GDP is 1.7K USD this year.
I never asked for the numbers of cars China buys, no one did. You got butthurt when members pointed out the number fudging recognized officially.

So instead of reconciling with the facts that not only China cooked up numbers, the growth itself is fueled by very high debt, you came up with the "look how many cars we buy" argument.

Dude that is the very definition of a straw man.

Straw man : an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.
 

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