China declares that it has developed 200-ton-weight big plane!

Discussion in 'China' started by badguy2000, Nov 6, 2009.

  1. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    Chinese government suddenly declares that China has worked out 200-ton-weight big mlitary transport planes.

    the new china-made big plane will be shown by the end of this year.

    here is the photo of the cab
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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  4. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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  5. masterofsea

    masterofsea Regular Member

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    The environment of the factory is not very neat,There are lots of people look on the plane idlely.
    [​IMG]
     
  6. ZOOM

    ZOOM Founding Member

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    Badguy, post the link which is readable in English language. Just by posting photographs, don't create unnecessary sensation on such Public Forum.
     
  7. IBM

    IBM Regular Member

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    Looks like the plane is inspired by IL-76 russian aircraft with little modifications. Chinese are very good in copying things(positive note).
     
  8. albert_008

    albert_008 Regular Member

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    I would rather say, it is more inspired by C17 with innovation
     
  9. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    Agree with ZOOM, BG please do as requested by ZOOM or else the thread will be deleted
     
  10. tarunraju

    tarunraju Moderator Moderator

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  11. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    That would be a tough job for badguy.
    Until now i can only find Chinese report, maybe days later English report can be available.
     
  12. jakojako777

    jakojako777 Senior Member Senior Member

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    AUTOMATIC TRANSLATE FROM CHINESE

    Official latest disclosure of a photo: Chinese air force elite test pilot a new transport planes in the cockpit (or possibly Simulator).
      In BJ on 6 November electro/Chinese aircraft has the latest progress, China air force military 200 tonnes by the end of large aircraft entity in West fly debut. This will be the largest military large aircraft.

      Evening report, 5 legal system in the morning, in the Chinese aviation industry group first anniversary of the media, journalists, came to know that the above information.

      November 6, is the Chinese aviation industry group launches an anniversary. 9 am this morning, reporters in the media day on, large aircraft production in China has the latest progress, military, civil large aircraft are in production.

      CNAC Group General Manager, Hu Feng aircraft company to the journalists, China air force military 200 tons large aircraft specific physical plane will spill out, by the end of this type of aircraft from r & d, manufacturing process fully covered by CNAC independent industrial West fly. Be borne by CNAC large aircraft Civil Aviation of China 80 tonnes C919 aircraft parts are also tighten up their production, will deliver the China business flying group.

      Journalists also noted that, by CNAC L15 industrial development of the spontaneous „ Falcon “ advanced trainer will be the first to go abroad, to participate in organized by Dubai Airshow in November. L15 Falcon advanced trainer will conduct on aviation exhibition, to compete with foreign training aircraft, the main international training aircraft market.

      At present, many countries air pilot conducted experience in China, CNAC is expected to win a lot of orders.
     
  13. RAM

    RAM The southern Man Senior Member

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    AVIC: China’s largest home-made 200-tonne class air Lifter to emerge in December

    AVIC: China’s largest home-made 200-tonne class air Lifter to emerge in December

    November.05 (China Military News Reporting by Johnathan Weng) — Despite of the IL-76MD, China will demonstrate its indigenous 200-tonne class heavy military airlifter in the last month of 2009. This transporter is also the largest aircraft which China has ever made. Mr. Hu Xiaofeng, the General President of AVIC, unleashes this information on one media news press today.

    Xiaofeng says that the new military transporter will emerge as prototype aircraft, which is independently developed and manufactured by XAC (Xi’an Aircraft Industry Group). He also promises that the 80-tonne class C919 jet liner is being under production and will be delivered to COMAC (Commercial Aircraft Corporation of China).
    China-Defense-Mashup has reported before that this military transport airfraft project was initiated before 3-4 years. Chinese Government has esteemed this project as “National Significant Project”. The Military department believes that the R&D on heavy airlifter should be based on the mature and reliable technologies, but its performance can approach the international advanced transport aircraft with Chinese independent innovative technologies.

    [​IMG]

    CG imagination image of China Military Transporter

    It can be summarized that China’s future Military Heavy airlifter Prototype will be designed on Russia’s IL-76MD. But China’s airlift aircraft will has an expanded size and payload capacity, improved electronic devices, and even some concepts absorbed from C-17. For the Engine, China will probably use D-30 engines and then replace them by WS-18 or advanced 4 high-Bypass ratio turbofan engines developed from FWS-10.

    The detailed information has been unavailable. Here is the previous specifications estimation. Some numbers may be incorrect.

    Crew: 3
    Payload Capacity: 60,000-65000 kg
    Length: 49 m
    Wingspan: 50 m
    Height: 15 m
    Wing area: 310 m2
    Empty weight: 100,000 kg
    Max takeoff weight: 220,000 kg
    Power: 4×turbofans
    Maximum speed: 750-800 km/h
    Range: (with max payload) 4,400 km
    Service ceiling: 13,000 m

    For years, Xi’an Aircraft Industry Group has been absorbing foreign aviation technologies and QC(Quality Control) & QA(Quality assurance) measurements by industrial subcontracting with Boeing and Airbus. Meanwhile, AVIC is preparing the correspondent attached technological projects. Such as CARDC (China Aerodynamics Research & Development Center) has achieved breakthrough in “Turbofan Engine low-speed Simulating Testing Technologies” for Airlifter high bypass engine. Besides, in 2008 China’s research on Polyacrylonitrile (PAN) based carbon fibers will reach its milestone to produce high-performance aviation materials. PLA’s future heavy airlifter will realize the shrunk aircraft empty weight by CF Compound Material made fuselage and wings.

    The strategic value of China’s heavy airlifter, is not only the great improvement PLA’s forces long distance projection, but also an air platform for China’s New concept Strategic Weapon System. A great conventional weapon gap between PLA and U.S. forces usually shrivels China leaders’ purpose of taking Taiwan back by forces. So Heads in China Government has been focusing on unconventional “Shashoujian” weapon system for strategic striking back.

    On the media news press, Hu Xiaofeng also says that L-15 will participate this month’s Dubai Air show 2009. He tells that lots of foreign Air Force pilots have visited Aviation Industry Group for related test flight.

    November.6 is the one year birthday of Re-grouped AVIC group

    ÎÒ×î´ó¾üÓôó·É»úÄêµ×ÁÁÏà ¾üʱ¨µÀ CCTV.com

    AVIC: China’s largest home-made 200-tonne class air Lifter to emerge in December|China Military Power Mashup
     
  14. qilaotou

    qilaotou Regular Member

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    The transporter plane is merely at the stage of building a full size demonstrator. The prototype is expected to take off in 2012-2014.

    In 2005 China inked a deal of buying 34 IL-76MDs and 4 IL-78s with Russia, and recieved none so far. The price tag for these ordered planes has gone up from $20m to $50m per IL-76. PLAF desperately need loads of larger planes to serve as AWACs, air tankers, and so on.
     
  15. em12

    em12 New Member

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    if so , it is a good news.
    but i don't think the plane can come out this year.
     
  16. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Congratulations to all aircraft engineers and designers involved in this project!Is this plane going to be for the civilian cargo market as well or is it only for the PLAAF.
     
  17. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    came across an interesting blog again copy cat :D:

    China Air and Naval Power: Aerospace Engine situation with the big transport

    As you guys all know, the biggest problem that PLAAF have always had is the lack of high performing engine series. J-10 still relies on AL-31FN. We didn't see any new J-10s for a while, because they used up all of the AL-31FNs. J-11B used WS-10A for a while, but had so much problems that many of them are also using AL-31F. H-6K project was basically stopped, because the suspension of the contract for 240 D-30KP2. J-10 and H-6K production basically only restarted recently because China started to purchase engines from the Russians again. Similarly, the L-15 project has been delayed and Z-10 project has been delayed. Of all the project, I think the one that is the most important for PLAAF and has suffered the most is the large transport project. It's quite apparent that PLAAF needs something in the class of D-30KP2 to equip not only the large transport but also H-6K, newer variants of H-6 and possible future bomber projects. We all know about the tremendous need for large transport in PLAAF. They basically can't build newer KJ-2000 units, because they are running so low on IL-76 airframes.

    Having said all of this. It appears that the prototypes and first batch of the large transport will be using D-30KP2 or the domestic version WS-18. WS-18 is being produced by ChengFa group (Website). Chengdu engine group (aka Factory 420) is also tasked with license production of L-15's engine AI-222-25F. People will ask why they are depending on something so old (China has had access to it since the 80s when they imported Tu-154). The truth is that PLAAF just needs something that works. D-30KP3 at this point is still not ready for mass production, so they have to go with KP2. PS-90A is a possibility, but PLAAF is going for the cheaper option for purchase and license production (or possibly unlicensed production). Therefore, WS-18 is pretty much just going to be the domestic version of D-30KP2, although maybe slightly improved in fuel efficiency and such. This engine was said to have had its first flight in January of 2007, so it should be ready for the large transport when it makes its first flight in 2012. It will probably ready even earlier for H-6K, H-6U and other variants of H-6.

    On top of WS-18, there is also a high bypass turbofan engine under development with its core based on WS-10A. It will eventually be the engine used to power the large transport. I think a variant of it will probably also be pitched as the engine for C919. Now, we all thought that Shenyang Liming (606 Institute) was going to be developing it, but we found out recently that the work has been given to Xi'an AeroEngine (410 Institute). In many ways, it does make sense for XAEC to develop/produce this engine, because Xi'an is also the home of XAC/SAC, which is in charge the large transport project. However, Shenyang Liming is the developer of WS-10A and follow-up variants, so it's unusual for the large bypass variant of the engine to be given to someone else. At this point, Liming still has WP-14 Kunlun series, WS-10A Taihang series, a bunch of domestic gas turbines (QC-70, QC-128, QC-168, QC-185 and QC-260). We all know about the troubles in the WS-10A, but I've read that the Kunlun series also have had a lot of problems. Amongst all the major gas turbine projects, only QC-70 and QC-128 are ready for production. XAEC is now working on WS-9, WS-15, 1/3 of the production work for WS-10A, the large bypass turbofan engine for large transport and most of the production for QC-280. As the result of this, XAEC will be responsible for the future power plant of JH-7A, 5th gen fighter, large transport/special mission aircraft and major warships and also be very instrumental in the power plant of J-10 and J-11. A few years ago, it seemed that Liming was becoming the dominant engine maker in China due to its role in Kunlun and Taihang series, which were the 2 most important aerospace engine projects at that time (and possibly still are). However, due to its failure in those 2 projects and delays in the gas turbine projects, it has really lost out to XAEC, which performed well with WS-9 and QC-280. I think the shift of this extremely high profile project is a sign that PLA is really unhappy with Liming.

    Anyhow, there is a really good article written by SAERI (Shenyang AeroEngine Research Institute). It talks about the 2 engine possibilities (WS-18 and the one based on WS-10) that could be used to power a domestic large transport. The engines are designed to be comparable to D-30KP2 in size/dimension. China has two previous attempts at medium to large turbofan engine. WS-5 from the 60s had a bypass ratio of 1.49 and WS-6 had a bypass ratio of 1.85. Comparatively speaking, D-30KP2 has a bypass ratio of 2.42 while a modern airliner engine like CFM-56-5A has a ratio of 6 and PS-90A has a ratio of 4.6. In this article, SAERI put out to proposals:

    1. WS-Y1 (I guess WS-18 here) that has the same dimension as D-30KP2, with the same thrust, but slight improvement in the bypass ratio
    2. WS-Y2 (the one based on WS-10) that has slightly different ratio, with the same thrust, but bigger improvement in the bypass ratio


    In the analysis, they believe that the air consumption of Y1 would be 285 kg/s and of Y2 would be 380 kg/s. That will produce bypass ratio of around 3 for Y1 and 5 to 6 for Y2. The fan diameter of Y1 would be 1460mm like it is for D-30KP2 and 1700 mm for Y2. The thrust at takeoff mode would be the same for Y1 and Y2 as it is for D-30KP2 (12000 kgf). At an altitude of 11000 m and speed of mach 0.8, the fuel consumption rates would be 0.67-0.68 for Y1 and 0.6-0.62 for Y2 compared to 0.7 for D-30KP2 and 0.595 for PS-90A. And the takeoff fuel consumption rates would be 0.45-0.48 for Y1 and 0.35-0.38 for Y2 compared to 0.51 for D-30KP2.

    Unfortunately, it's hard to verify how close these figures would be to the engines that get developed. However, due to the fact that this was written by SAERI which basically developed the engines that are now being produced by Shenyang Liming, I think the published numbers should not be that far from the truth. It looks like they have achieved much better fuel consumption numbers than D-30KP2, but still trails PS-90A and obviously the latest variants of CFM-56. Something along the line of Y2 is more than enough for China's large transport needs. However, I find it curious that they think they can develop a domestic engine option that can compete against next generation Western options (like PW's GTF series), when it would likely be inferior to CFM-56-7 series.

    The order for 240 D-30KP2 made in 2005 is finally getting carried out this year. These engines might all be delivered by 2012. I think China chose this ahead of KP3 and PS-90A due to maturity of the engine, its lower cost and not wanting to support two lines of high-bypass Russian turbofan engines. By that time, WS-18 should be more than ready to be equipped. WS-10-118 (which is the code name for the large bypass engine prototype based on WS-10A) will probably be ready 3 or 4 years later for the domestic large transport project. WS-18 will still be produced at that point to service the existing fleet using D-30KP2 engines.
     
  18. smiling_scorpion

    smiling_scorpion Regular Member

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    what I care about is the engine.which country supply it ?or just developed by ourself.
     
  19. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    as reported ,the expedient measue is WS18, a indigenious copy of Russia one.
    then a variety of WS10 will replace it.
     
  20. nitesh

    nitesh Mob Control Manager Stars and Ambassadors

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    What is the logic to not be worried? Care to explain
     
  21. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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