China 'can't save' N. Korea even if it collapses: ex-general

Discussion in 'Indo Pacific & East Asia' started by Yusuf, Dec 3, 2014.

  1. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    China would not help save North Korea even if the neighboring North's regime collapses, a former general of China's military said Tuesday, in rare explicit comments that possibly reflect Beijing's growing frustration with its unpredictable ally.

    "China is not a savior," Wang Hongguang, former deputy commander of the Nanjing military region of the People's Liberation Army, wrote in an op-ed published by the Global Times newspaper, which has close ties with China's ruling Communist Party.

    "If North Korea really collapses, even China can't save it," Wang said.

    The comments by Wang were in response to a recent contribution by another Chinese expert, who urged Beijing not to "abandon" North Korea.

    North Korea is China's only formal treaty ally, but a series of provocations by the North, including last year's third nuclear test, have strained political ties between the two nations.

    The alliance between North Korea and China, forged by blood during the 1950-53 Korean War, appears to be wearing thin.

    Still, many analysts believe that Beijing will not put strong pressure on Pyongyang due to the risk of aggravating the current situation.

    In the Chinese-language op-ed piece posted on the newspaper's website, Wang indicated that China may not step in if a war breaks out on the Korean Peninsula.

    "China has no need to get burned," Wang said. "Whoever provokes a war bears responsibility. It is not necessary for China's young generation to fight for another country."

    Yonhapnews Agency - Mobile
     
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  3. Redhawk

    Redhawk Regular Member

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    North Korea has had it. The only danger is that the North Koreans as they sink further and further into the morass of poverty and starvation, will launch a war to divert attention from the country's internal economic failures and shortcomings, in which case the DPRK will go out in a "blaze of glory" with the regime going down in the flames and smoke of a massive military defeat with the annihilation of the North Korean armed forces. A fitting end to the world's last truly Stalinist regime! :thumb: :thumb:
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2014
  4. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    And then the world will have 2 glory jobs at the same time: feed a starving North Korea and rebuild south korea which lost all her major industrial bases in the war.
     
  5. Redhawk

    Redhawk Regular Member

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    That's right. Better an end in horror than a horror without end. That's life.

    But of course it would be better for all concerned if the North Korean regime just collapsed under the weight of its own propaganda, mismanagement, and incompetence.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2014
  6. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    The ex-general's can't-save-NK blah blah is ridiculous craps.

    Yes most Chinese feel NK regime abhorrent. Its dynastic politics is simply feudal, to say the least. However, many somehow fail to put the other part of the peninsula S. Korea in the same light. Throughout SK's history NONE of SK presidents ended well, except the incumbent Miss Park. ALL of her predecessors ended up 1. assassinated or 2. overthrown by military coup 3. committed suicide 4. jailed for corruption scams :lol: Park's father served in Japanese Kwangtung Army ( a "traitor" by S.Korean law) and gained power by coup, but was assassinated by his intelligence chief himself. :taunt1:

    Rarely does anyone mention there's a MAT (mutual assistance treaty) btwn NK and China, valid till 202x !

    Is there any power in the world basing their foreign policy on "ideology"? If yes US shall have dumped her ally Saudi Arabia! During Arab Spring what did US do when Saudi suppressed its Shia protests, and sent tanks to Manama to cracked down on the democratic movement of Bahrain's Shia majority?? :shocked:
     
  7. Redhawk

    Redhawk Regular Member

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    A treaty to the Communist Chinese doesn't mean anything. The PRC will abandon any treaty with North Korea if it suits the PRC to abandon North Korea. The PRC is governed entirely by its self-interest. Treaties, international law, etc. mean nothing to it and will be ignored unless it is to the advantage of the PRC and in its interests.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2014
  8. prohumanity

    prohumanity Regular Member

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    If you make North Koreans extremely desperate and they launch nuclear missile attacks on Tokyo, Seol and Manila....that will cause global economic collapse. Don't threaten a nation too much that it decides to do desperate things.
     
  9. Redhawk

    Redhawk Regular Member

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    The North Koreans don't have the nuclear capability to threaten anyone. The North Koreans nuclear "tests" were detonations of firecrackers with a nuclear yield of a few kilotons.
     
  10. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    History is a mirror. China fought for Korea many times and three wars among others were decisive for East Asian geopolitical landscape.

    These days a S Korean movie The Admiral: Roaring Currents - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia has made a hit.

    It's based on the history of Japanese invasions of Korea (1592–98) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    what would happen if north korea leader was more friendly to south korea and japan (russia allowed it) and one had a nixon moment ...
     
  12. t_co

    t_co Senior Member Senior Member

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    lol @Redhawk actually calling for millions of deaths on the Korean peninsula so he can live out his liberal interventionist fantasy
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  13. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    It depends on one's assessment of the situation. Previous S.Korean govmts adopted a "Sunlight Program" trying to engage NK through aids and investment. However following SK leaders (right wing) thought such pacifying approaches in effective and NK regime could succumb to external pressure and internal economic hardship. Hence a U turn was made to intensify the pressure to get Kim to his knees. The current SK president may be still in the process of probing for a fine balance.

    It swings like a pendulum. The "Nixon moment" may come when SK recognizes NK has stablized and is worth dealing with calmly.

    Japanese PM Abe tried his "Nixon moment" alone but regrettably Uncle Sam called it off immediately 😁
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2014
  14. Redhawk

    Redhawk Regular Member

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    I did say it would be better if the North Korean regime collapsed of itself from its own mismanagement and incompetence, but of course you quite dishonestly ignored that. You're clearly very intellectually dishonest in selecting what you choose to respond to.

    But then you are probably a PRC national, clearly a PRC supporter, and the PRC is a nation of liars. So I don't really take what you say very seriously. :laugh:

    Though I'm hardly fantasising. If you knew North Korea's recent history, the state's destruction may well cost less lives than the Korean Workers' Party-man-made famine in the mid-1990s when 3-5 million North Koreans starved to death because of the incompetence and mismanagement of the regime and because the Soviet Union collapsed and no longer subsidised and propped up the North Korean economy. And that's no fantasy.

    You're the one in some neo-Maoist fantasy calling for the retention of the North Korean regime that kills its own people by the millions. Likewise, the CCP and the PRC were supporters of Pol Pot and Khmer Rouge and the CCP and PRC did support the Cambodian Genocide that killed 2 million Cambodians.

    When you get the chance, read this Wiki item: Mass killings under Communist regimes

    I would bring your attention in the article to the millions killed under Mao Tse-tung. Read these sections on the PRC: "Land reform and the suppression of counterrevolutionaries", where Mao envisaged 50 million peasant deaths, "the Great Leap Forward", where millions died of famine because of Mao's incompetence and mismanagement as well as killing millions considered enemies of the CCP, just as happened in North Korea, and "the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution".

    When it comes to killing millions of their own people, no-one does it better and kills more than the CCP and the other Communist parties of East Asia.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  15. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    thanks for replying it is useful information. i agree with your current analysis. but that is with the current leader and associations. what would happen if a new leadership is put in place and approved by Russia. Does Russia has no say at all in North Korea ... even India has diplomatic relations with North Korea

    also you bring up a good question - in fact what would happen if nixon moment happen (USA did not object and Russia approved). for example if large scale manufacturing and agriculture trade moved into north korea would PRC object ...

    -ve for PRC:
    (i) east asia tiger trade (assembled goods move away from PRC and into North Korea peninsula).

    +ve for PRC:
    (ii) north korea association - PRC will say to north korea they dont know what to do and PRC will do it for them (hence it is PRC that benefits). Relationship matters

    Apparently there is a lot of land in north korea that is available ... I am surprised PRC is not taking initiative (before its too late).

    Engagement with North Korea might happen from South Korea and Japan rapidly but will PRC want that on its own terms is also another question ...

    everyone knows who the original axis of evil were and what they are today ...
     
  16. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    @Compersion u still not getting it?

    SK has invested tremendously in NK, like manufacturing in the border city Kaesong (initiated by the Hyundai founder). when the relationship went sore all such investment may go down the drain. as a matter of fact NK closed down the industrial park repeatedly whenever tensions arise.

    risk assessement is a must before cheap and educated workforce is taken advantage of.

    Russia is no USSR but hugely a resource based economy!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  17. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

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    @amoy

    Not sure if that is your final summary. everyone knows what PRC was like before 1970s. Also North Korean economy is not fully open up (how to say nixon moment in economic and political terms). Japanese, American, South Korea, etc, etc not in North Korea freely. Include others like PRC, Russia, Germany, etc, etc not able to do freely because of financial and economic constraints.

    Risk assessment means that there is the Nuclear testing in the way since it must not be shown that there is cognizance and acceptance of North Korean testing in opening up North Korea. Russia is able to have a better history (probably the best) inside North Korea. Russia can if they want insert leadership according to how they want. Russia can make change in Korean peninsula with purpose.

    also

    South Korea investment is unilateral and not conclusive. The industrial parks are small in scale and do not make much difference in large scale of things. But it would be a different ball game if the whole country opens up.

    What do you call a nuclear weapon that is small that is used to trigger a bigger nuclear explosion ... was that tested in North Korea. was it a North Korea test. Can Russia offer North Korea a nuclear umbrella.

    Sometimes one thinks 6 party talks are done with purpose to delay and maintain status quo. But like the richest man in Babylon said ...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015

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