China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, from it

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by U Sun Dar, Apr 19, 2013.

  1. U Sun Dar

    U Sun Dar Regular Member

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    China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, from its eight airbases in Tibet and other airfields to their north. Even more Chinese fighters can join forces if they are able to overfly Myanmar. Similarly, Pakistan can deploy 21 to 25 fighter squadrons against India.

    With this hard-nosed assessment in mind after defence minister AK Antony himself asked the forces to be ready for the twin-threat posed by China and Pakistan, the largest-ever combat exercise undertaken by IAF tested its capability for a two-front contingency by deploying “swing forces” from the western theatre right across to the eastern one.

    IAF did “extremely well” during the ‘Live-Wire’ exercise, conducted from March 18 to April 4 with over 8,000 hours of flying sorties, to maintain the “high-tempo surge operations” to “validate its two-front deployment capability”. Frontline Sukhoi-30MKIs even flew long-range missions from Chabua (Assam) to the western front, with mid-air refuelling, for bombing missions, sources said.

    But the wargames, with over 400 fighters and 200 transport aircraft and helicopters, also sharply underlined the “criticality” of soon finalizing the almost $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project to acquire 126 fighters.

    IAF is grappling with just 34 fighter squadrons (each with 14 to 18 jets) at present despite the primacy of airpower in modern-day battles. IAF itself has held it needs at least 44-45 squadrons to meet the “possible contingency” of “a full conflict” with Pakistan, while maintaining “a dissuasive posture” against China.

    Even as the progressive phasing out of ageing MiG-21 squadrons is now on hold to retain combat readiness, IAF is keeping its fingers crossed that the long-delayed MMRCA contract is inked with French major Dassault Aviation for its Rafale fighters before this year ends.

    “We can then begin getting the new fighters from early-2017 onwards. Problems in the contract negotiations between MoD and Dassault over Hindustan Aeronautics’ responsibility (the first 18 jets will come from France, with HAL producing the rest 108 with transfer of technology) are being sorted out,” said a source.

    IAF does need systematic induction of fighters and helicopters, mid-air refuellers and transport planes, spy and combat drones, surface-to-air missiles and advanced radars, with projections showing India will spend upwards of $35 billion over the next 10 years to boost its air combat power.

    In the interim, IAF banking upon the progressive induction of the 272 Sukhoi-30MKIs contracted from Russia for around $12 billion as well as the mid-life upgrades of 51 Mirage-2000s and 60 MiG-29s.

    For the long-term, the plan is to induct over 200 5th Gen swing-role fighters from 2022 onwards. India and Russia are slated to soon ink the $11 billion full design R&D contract for the stealth jets, with each chipping in with $5.5 billion. India will eventually spend around $35 billion on this futuristic fighter project over the next 15-20 years, with each jet to be subsequently produced costing over $100 million.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
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  3. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    Re: China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, fro

    we do need BSF Fighter air craft wing with LCA, for Coast Guard type of role. US has air national guards. We can call them Air BSF. Since IAF requirements are ever changing and they are looking for fighters which can continue to serve them for two or three decades. LCA with BSF could help in big way to counter Two front war and do expect more then 21 fighter squadrons against us, plus Pak would jump in to support its dominating bed friend.
     
  4. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, fro

    Why BSF?

    National Defence must have a coordinated approach.

    Dual control, as we have seen in all fields of national pursuit, has lead to disaster.

    Can't have the Defence Ministry and Home Ministry both together adding to the chaos in times of national threat.

    Note how the Police under the Home Minister, to include the paramilitary forces, are floundering on CI tasks.

    Even in Kashmir, the BSF is on their own trip and they are hardly dovetailed into the security grid that should be one continuum!

    And that is so even when the CM heads the Coordinating Committee (Unified Command) that supervises the approach of all forces!
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
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  5. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    Re: China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, fro

    sir at the time of war BSF automatically get under the control of army. Plus in peace time like in the case of Coast Guard can guard the borders and in war time they become second line of defence.
     
  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, fro

    Not quite.

    It is only that the Border Post when reinforced by the Army, that those posts come under the Army during war.

    Coast Guard is under the Ministry of Defence.

    What would be the role and task of the BSF Air in war?
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
  7. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    Re: China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, fro

    Sir here is the BSF air wing do

    US Air national Guards

    Air National Guard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    At the time of war, they can support the IAF to cover inland areas and allow IAF to concentrate on border areas and offensive operations.
     
  8. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, fro

    BSF Air Wing is for internal domestic activities of airlift for the BSF to include their VIPs.

    Even the anti Maoist actions are done by the IAF helicopters and drones while the BSF is for airlift.

    If the BSF get fighters, what will be their role?

    What internal role do you visualise the BSF fighters will have during war?

    How will the Home Ministry coordinate with the Defence Ministry and the IAF to have a cohesive and coordinated approach?

    The US has a role for overseas operations and it is like an island with no hostile neighbours and so it can have an auxillary force to oversee their skies but never without being under the command of the USAF. And the supplement their air resources oversea with the national air guard. We have no such role or ambitions.

    What you are indirectly seem to be aiming at is - the Strategic Air Command and the Tactical Air Command. Both are within the airforce's realm.

    Why do you think that the Indian Intelligence is a buggers muddle?

    Too many agencies doing the same thing and overlapping with even the same spy, not known to each other, and what that spy gives get collaborated as hard evidence till proved wrong after coming to grief!
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
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  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, fro

    Having many agencies and paramilitary forces is the Govts way to keep checks and balances that no organisation becomes too powerful, which can be dangerous to the Nation and to the politicians and their selected turf.

    But seen overall, it becomes a buggers muddle since each organisation tries to protect its own turf and does not want anything done to be cohesive under one leadership.

    That is why DIA is an abject failure and so is the NIA!

    Though not totally connected, see the manner in which the Govt fudges. Ashwini Kumar, the law minister, is alleged to have vetted the reply of the CBI to the Supreme Court when the CBI was to directly communicate the report to the Supreme Court.

    If that is true, then you can visualise that no matter how many agencies you prop up in the national good, the national aim will be perverted because of external reasons.

    Who will suffer?

    The Nation. You and Me!

    why do you think the CDS has become a non starter and is impotent?

    Politicians are running scared.

    And yet, that appointment will end all turf wars and focus on the national good and national security in real earnest.

    Note how the proposed reform for appointment of Judges is a politician and government heavy system proposed.

    These damned politician are more keen on their power, perks and pelf than the nation!

    Imagine in the 2G JPC, the major players were not called to depose, namely the PM, Chidambaram, NDA Ministers, and even the accused Raja! What investigation is it, where the principle players are kept away and not questioned?

    If Raja is to be blamed for all the evils, is it not justice, that he be allowed to present his case? Accused without given a chance to prove innocence.

    But then Chacko has acted as a Chackooo and subverting the quest for the real truth!

    That is Indian politics for you!
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
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  10. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, fro

    @sayareakd

    The more I see our India, the more befuddled I become!

    They say there is Method in the Madness.

    I see total Lunatic Depravity without any Method!

    And it is not confined to any particular dispensation.

    All are in the boat, rub a dub dub all clowns in a tub!
     
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  11. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    Re: China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, fro

    most of those 21 squadrons would be lower quality fighters which is another reason to quickly get the LCA into mass-production mode asap - quantity is the new quality !
     
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  12. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    Re: China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, fro

    Sir Checks and balances should be inbuild into the system, so that persons who are tempted to use the system for corruption should either stay away or they should know that Jail is waiting for them.
     
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  13. drkrn

    drkrn Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, fro

    if they send 21 squadrons of jets over Himalayas,leaving beside critical weapons they are more or less a feast to IAF
    real air force threat comes from Pakistan side,better also to get prepared from Myanmar side too
     
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  14. binayak95

    binayak95 Regular Member

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    Re: China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, fro

    Saya with due respect I think we can't afford an Air BSF despite its apparent advantages. Ray sir is right, the MHA is one sure way to spoil our forces. Besides to buildup competent pilots, maintenance personnel and technical infrastructure for the Air BSF would be extremely expensive and we don't have billions lying around. The US needs the Air National Guard because of its massive territory and the fact that the USAF has Int'l Commitments.

    Having said that, I think your Idea has merits. We could create additional FOBs near the border. Transfer old serviceable fighters to new squadrons deployed therein. If someone had thought of this before hand, we could have the Mig-23 and Mig-25 already deployed. No matter, the LCA can make it up.
     
  15. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    Re: China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, fro

    the key is not how many squadrons of jet PLAAF can throw,but how many squardrons jet CHinese miliatary complexs can supply and make up for if necessoary.
     
  16. binayak95

    binayak95 Regular Member

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    Re: China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, fro

    The age old axiom of air warfare is: You can replace planes but what about pilots?? The same happened to Japan in WWII and then they resorted to Kamakaze.
     
  17. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    Re: China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, fro

    well, USA's plane production was 5 times more than Jspan's during WWII and more than the combination of Germany's ,Japan's and Itlay's.....

    it was because facing USA's plane waves with better quality and quantity that .Japanese pilots soon wore up at that time.


    PLs remember that industry might is always the backbone of military might nowdays....


    military force without the support of industry might is always a once-off one can not replace loss.

    once-off military force may win battles ,but can never win wars.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
  18. vram

    vram Regular Member

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    Re: China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, fro

    The Moment either of these nations ingress more than a tolerable limit into the others territory OR .One country destroys enough military assets of the other nation would severely de-stablize the continuation of war fighting capability then THE WAR WOULD IMMEDIATELY TURN NUCLEAR. THE RESULT WOULD BE NOTHING SHORT OF A CATASTROPHE.
    India is nothing like it was in 1962. The war fighting capability has increased by leaps even with all the short comings. Heck the chinese have more junk than us in service purely to make up the number.
    But any prolonged war between India and China will trigger a nuclear exchange. We cannot maintain a stalemate war between the two nations for a long time. India has its weekness in the 'Chicken neck' region. China has its achilles heels in Tibet and the distance of mobilization for a long war from its main defence centers.

    SO my humble assesment is that conventional might is nothing of significance today. Nuclear is what maintains the peace...
     
  19. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Re: China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, fro

    21 squadron will have only 50 yr old Mig 21 ,25yr old Su 27 junk. All we need good anti aircraft battery in eastern side.
     
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  20. santosh_g

    santosh_g Regular Member

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    Re: China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, fro

    it's about how many aircrafts are as capable as MKI's.. real challenge would be if we have to face su-35 squadrons.. otherwise IAF will have great advantage.China might try to overpower us by many sending many squads but good planning and excecution will definitely give us advantage.. I definitely believe that IAF will come-up with good strategies.. :thumb: :thumb:
     
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  21. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Re: China can "throw" at least 21 fighter squadrons against India, fro


    Don't expect any major war to run into many years. The rate of production etc matters for work war style wars not "bilateral" wars that last a month or so.
     

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