China builds lighter tanks for Tibet border

Discussion in 'China' started by Ray, Jan 2, 2015.

  1. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,117
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    China is aware that the first wave of troops in the Tibetan Plateau will be heliborne forces so as to capitalise on surprise and consolidate position for the follow up troops to come up and break out.

    Given the high altitude and the narrow roads/ access to the Tibetan Plateau from the Indian side, medium tanks will be difficult for Indians to induct in a timeframe to achieve surprise.

    Therefore, the ideal stopgap is a light tank that can take on the helicopters as also the troops in tandem with its Motorised infantry.

    The important point is the anti helicopter missiles that were not there for the earlier light tanks that they had.
     
    Redhawk and nik22 like this.
  2.  
  3. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Messages:
    21,001
    Likes Received:
    11,842
    Location:
    Akhand Bharat
    And India still has not decided on light howitzers lolllllllll
     
    Dharmateja likes this.
  4. sgarg

    sgarg Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Messages:
    3,479
    Likes Received:
    962
    This would happen as China uses its industrial capacity to build weapons according to the need; while Indian generals browse brochures and Indian MOD goes hyperactive in blacklisting foreign suppliers while blocking domestic suppliers.

    The Indian procurement machinery is totally paralyzed in terms of both planning and execution.
     
    Dharmateja, roma and Redhawk like this.
  5. kaustav2001

    kaustav2001 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    219
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    India
  6. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2012
    Messages:
    1,054
    Likes Received:
    862
    Location:
    Ontario
    India fielded this type of light tank AMX 30 in the 1965 war. It was dumped immediately afterwards and never replaced. It's light armour became a crew death trap.

    Modern ammunition usually makes a short work of lightly armoured tanks like this. It is no threat.

    As an infantry support tank, it has to be subservient to infantry needs. In mountain passes and valleys, it is the foot mobile infantry which dominates as it happened in 1962. Prescence of a tank boosts the troop morale but ask the tank crew, they face a life and death situation even from a rocket propelled grenade, hence are reluctant to be on the frontline.

    As long as India possesses the light pack artillery at the mountain top positions either 155mm or 130mm type, with direct sight to enemy entry position or a pass where they are likely to make the ingress, chances of them succeeding are very little. With a newly raised aggressive mountain corp, ready to threaten Chinese rear supply line, an agreesive Chinese stance is next to impossible.

    Yes, Chinese rockets and missiles are more advanced than India. If they can fire these with pinpoint accuracy, which Chinese have demonstrated in their latest missiles developed to sink an Aircraft Carrier, it is possible to take out Indian artillery position from quite a distant away (say outside Tibet). There is a drawback here, a 500 kilo charge in a missile can do a very limited damage if the guns are well hidden and on a reverse slope.

    Hence relax, all military developments in China are not as threatening as the government controlled Chinese media would make them look.
     
    DingDong likes this.
  7. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    20,553
    Likes Received:
    6,564
    India has anticipated this with the attack helicopter purchases. What advantage do these tanks offer
    In the Tibetan terrain? Don't see any difference?
     
    Blackwater likes this.
  8. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,117
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Our medium tanks cannot go into the Tibet Plateau hell for leather as they can do in the plains, especially in the East, because of the narrow terrain of the mountain configuration.

    Movement of large forces through these single and narrow tracks will require many vehicles and it will be picked up by satellite by the Chinese.

    Therefore, the initial phase has to capitalise on surprise and that can be done by heliborne troops who can be landed and they can create am 'airhead'.

    The airhead should also contain extraction zones (EZs), interior lines of communications (LOCs), and terrain that allows for conducting a defence in depth.

    Thereafter, the follow up troops can consolidate into that airhead and then move on to their specific tasks.

    While in the air and while landing, the heliborne troops are most vulnerable. It is at these juncture that light tanks can devastate the landing and change the combat ratio.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2015
    LETHALFORCE likes this.
  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,117
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    The AMX 13 light tanks ( were utilised in the Independent Recce Squadrons) were succeeded by the PT 76. They were dumped because in the plains, they could be made mincemeat of as also for the fact that the concept of Independent Recce Squadrons became obsolete. They were useful in the riverine terrain, but even there, they also had casualties.

    Tanks, if they are confined to the line ahead movement formation, which the narrow Mountain valleys forces them to adopt, they are prone to being hit by the enemy from the flank and there is no guarantee that the Chinese will not infiltrate with their Anti Tank groups suitable equipped and kitted. One tank immobilised, it will be a nightmare to get it off the narrow mountain ‘road’ so that the column can move on.

    However, once out on the Tibetan Plateau, it is ideal tank country. To get there undetected is not feasible. Therefore, the requirement for a quick incisive strike and consolidation, on which the follow up formations, be they tanks, artillery, infantry can build up on.

    That is why it becomes essential to capitalise on surprise and speed and that can be done through ari assault/ heliborne troops which can make the airhead.

    Pack Artillery is artillery that is carried by Mules MA or what is called ‘pack animal’. What would be the weight of the 130mm or 155mm artillery? The M777 Light gun weighs 3,420 kg/ 4,400kgs IIRC.
    Therefore, as I see it, it won’t be pack artillery and instead will have to be transported under-slung by helicopter.

    While one can always relax as to the adversaries modernisation, yet, one has to take into account the same and visualise its application on the battlefield and take necessary action to neutralise or immobilise the same through weaponry or tactics.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2015
  10. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2012
    Messages:
    1,054
    Likes Received:
    862
    Location:
    Ontario
    Thanks Ray.
     
  11. Redhawk

    Redhawk Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2014
    Messages:
    581
    Likes Received:
    255
    Location:
    Elsewhere
    More lightly armoured fighting vehicles armed with surface-to-air missiles to shoot down helicopters have been around since the 1960s. Oughtn't to be hard for the Communist Chinese to come up with a lighter, ASM-armed medium tank for use in Tibet.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015
  12. Sambha ka Boss

    Sambha ka Boss Regular Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2014
    Messages:
    701
    Likes Received:
    365
    Location:
    Hyderabad Rangareddy
    I want to know which country's technology is being copied and pasted by China.
     
  13. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    14,140
    Likes Received:
    8,529
    Location:
    North Carolina, USA
    Maybe the Sheridan is still viable.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  14. karn

    karn Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2014
    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    143
    Location:
    india
    China has been building light tanks for decades . The envisioned their use in hilly/forested areas in southern china which is far from ideal tank country .
    Type 62 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Im pretty sure likewise there are or will be "light" versions of type 96 and Type 99 tanks .
     
  15. karn

    karn Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2014
    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    143
    Location:
    india
    Didn't it take a lot of shit for having aluminium armour ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  16. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,117
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    How is your question connected with my post that you quote?
     
  17. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    14,140
    Likes Received:
    8,529
    Location:
    North Carolina, USA
    I don't recall, but would not be surprised, although lighter weight provides a capability for LAPES deployment among other things.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
    Redhawk likes this.
  18. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,475
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    baseless meditation or daydreaming is the waste of time... "35 ton class tank's airlift maneuvering via heli" (no possible over the 4000m plateau and no attention from the Army at all)or "Anti-Heli mission via the Light tank with missile" (specialized ADS detachment accompanying the armored force)are really surprising and laughable statements, even from some so called ex-serviceman....LOL...

    and Foolishly sentimental is another laughing point... not every china development/movement is India related ...almost all China Land weapon system should pass the high and cold area tests on the Plateau terrain, but it doesn't mean such weapon is for the units in this area...
    ------------
    two earlier posts about the Light tank project...

    all right ,it seems it's safe to reveal the winner after the two rounds of bidding...LOL...errrr, it's PV2 ,now it has entered full speed tech/engineering development phase.

    BTW, the protection is the typical "Base armor steel+composite armor module + ERA" combination. it's none of business of 'Aluminum armor' on lighter Armored vehicles... the protection is mainly against the HEAT warheads threats and limited KE protection ability (25-40mm APDS Level).

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2015
  19. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2009
    Messages:
    1,475
    Likes Received:
    1,242
    a rare frontal view of this new Light Tank project...

    as we said, the bidding was over ,the final combination of the turret and chassis (picked in two designs each) was decided...

    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page