China: Between Myth and Reality

[ssbbzz]

ok , china sucks
I dont understand why you chinese spent lots of times on such posts rather than watch and read quietly.

 

[Ray]

The Chinese are a very proud lot who are very sensitive about the prestige of their Nation.

This type of a national pride is not generally seen with other nations.

The way the Chinese al lover the world, irrespective of their personal opinion of the CCP, were one during the Olympic Torch Relay is a display of the fierce pride they have been Hans.

In that period, hordes of Chinese posters descended on world forums battling to present the Chinese views and some of them were very juvenile in their post with juvenile and even puerile posts, Yet, they persevered!

One could learn from them of this pride too!

Even here one can notice the manner in which they showcase their nation with photos and other news and avoid showing the other face of China or obfuscate when pressed too hard!

 

[kickok1975]

The Chinese are a very proud lot who are very sensitive about the prestige of their Nation.

This type of a national pride is not generally seen with other nations.

The way the Chinese al lover the world, irrespective of their personal opinion of the CCP, were one during the Olympic Torch Relay is a display of the fierce pride they have been Hans.

In that period, hordes of Chinese posters descended on world forums battling to present the Chinese views and some of them were very juvenile in their post with juvenile and even puerile posts, Yet, they persevered!

One could learn from them of this pride too!

Even here one can notice the manner in which they showcase their nation with photos and other news and avoid showing the other face of China or obfuscate when pressed too hard!

That's very true, Ray. Proud, sometimes rather called "Face" is a very important aspect in Chinese culture. One may choose to die because of losing "face".

Just like you said, it's a double edges sword too. On one hand it encourages people to improve their "face". On the other hand care too much about it could drive people insane.
I believe Chinese people will gradually care less about their "face" out of growing confidence.

 

[Ray]

Chinese Proverbs

Going beyond is as bad as falling short.

Eat less, taste more.

Half an orange tastes as sweet as a whole one.

 

[Ray]

x posting from Something else Made in China - Chinese GDP

Something else made in China – Chinese GDP
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Something else made in China – Chinese GDP
Posted by Tracy Alloway on Dec 06 13:57.

Uh oh.

Wikileaks, fresh from angering US authorities, might be about to incur the wrath of China's economic establishment. The controversial site has published a US embassy cable containing comments made in 2007 by Li Keqiang — then head of the Communist Party in Liaoning and now the man some tip to become the PRC's next head of government.

The cable was published as part of last week's massive release of American diplomatic transcripts — and was just spotted by Malcolm Moore at the Telegraph.

The relevant bit of the cable, below:

Describing some of the challenges he faces as Party Secretary, Li related that despite brisk economic growth of SIPDIS 12.8 percent in 2006, Liaoning's income gaps remain severe. Liaoning ranks among the top 10 Chinese provinces in terms of per capita GDP, yet the number of its urban residents on welfare is among the highest in the country and average urban disposable income is below the national average. By contrast, rural disposable incomes are above the national average. Even so, incomes for Liaoning farmers are only half that of urban residents.

¶4. (C) GDP figures are "man-made" and therefore unreliable, Li said. When evaluating Liaoning's economy, he focuses on three figures: 1) electricity consumption, which was up 10 percent in Liaoning last year; 2) volume of rail cargo, which is fairly accurate because fees are charged for each unit of weight; and 3) amount of loans disbursed, which also tends to be accurate given the interest fees charged. By looking at these three figures, Li said he can measure with relative accuracy the speed of economic growth. All other figures, especially GDP statistics, are "for reference only," he said smiling.

Sheesh. All that's missing is a wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2010...a-chinese-gdp/

Any comments on the veracity of the issues mentioned, assuming that the leak is genuine in facts.

 

[TrueSpirit]

I would've had the same impression had I been to China in the '90's. Filthy, polluted rivers, housing properties being confiscated, shanty towns barricaded, migrant workers living in the most filthy of conditions etc. etc. etc.

Much of these, in fact, still exist. So, the moral high ground is unwarranted.

Don't forget, you have a 13-yr head start on us. Give things time.

China...been there twice last year alone ( obviously for official stuff )..for around a week..absolute filth & worms is what they eat.....you wont find anything edible there..except snakes, lizards, beetles ( a Chinese delicacy ), cockroaches ( Chinese staple diet ), they seem such a primitive tribal race and their eating choices.. reprehensibly shameful !!!

Literally, the worst nightmare one can imagine...is the Smog filled Shanghai...though Hong Kong was much better in that respect..at least they knew there are better things to be eaten out there..rather than fried snakes..& all the trademark Chinese shit.

 

[TrueSpirit]

well, with the rapid growth of salary, more and more CHinese often visit foreign countries ,espeically in southeast Asia.

Frankly speaking, after visiting those areas,most of Chinese tourists feel that China is not as bad as CCN reports while democracy is not as magic as CNN reports,either. haha.

guy, do you know what is most famous place of India in Chinese cybernet? it is Ganges and the floating things in the river.

China...been there twice last year alone ( obviously for official stuff )..for around a week..absolute filth & worms is what they eat.....you wont find anything edible there..except snakes, lizards, beetles ( a Chinese delicacy ), cockroaches ( Chinese staple diet ), they seem such a primitive tribal race and their eating choices.. reprehensibly shameful !!!

Literally, the worst nightmare one can imagine...is the Smog filled Shanghai...though Hong Kong was much better in that respect..at least they knew there are better things to be eaten out there..rather than fried snakes..& all the trademark Chinese shit.

 

[badguy2000]

That's very true, Ray. Proud, sometimes rather called "Face" is a very important aspect in Chinese culture. One may choose to die because of losing "face".

Just like you said, it's a double edges sword too. On one hand it encourages people to improve their "face". On the other hand care too much about it could drive people insane.
I believe Chinese people will gradually care less about their "face" out of growing confidence.

well, guys, "face" is important to any ethnic all over the earth,including Indians and yankees under your beloved "democracy".....

otherwise, why so many of posts that embarrass India are deleted here and forums.bharat-rakshak.com........ that is why I wisely give up reposting the famous Chinese thread "Ganges and the floating things over it" (恒河浮尸贴）here.

"Ganges and the floating things over it" (恒河浮尸贴)" has attracted millions of clicks and thousands of replied since it was posted in Tianya.cn....and sucessfully "reshaped" millions of CHinese impression on India.....but I am sure that it would be deleted in 5 minutes ,if I were to repost it here......for it would make Indians "lose face" too.

BTW,kickok, do you still remember the amusing "Bronze Medal Table" listed by Yankees during 2008 Beijing Olympics? "face-loving" yankees also created "Bronze medal table", in order to stay the position "NO.1"
,when CHina won more Golds and medals than Yankees once at that time.

here is "Bronze medal table" created by Yankees
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggsbR-VNB0U

 

[Ray]

China...been there twice last year alone ( obviously for official stuff )..for around a week..absolute filth & worms is what they eat.....you wont find anything edible there..except snakes, lizards, beetles ( a Chinese delicacy ), cockroaches ( Chinese staple diet ), they seem such a primitive tribal race and their eating choices.. reprehensibly shameful !!!

Literally, the worst nightmare one can imagine...is the Smog filled Shanghai...though Hong Kong was much better in that respect..at least they knew there are better things to be eaten out there..rather than fried snakes..& all the trademark Chinese shit.

Are you a vegetarian?

China is catering for its own people and they can eat what they want.

If some do not like it, then they can stay in 5 or 7 star hotels and have meals of their choice. It costs money. One's choice means money, but if someone is visiting on a junket (officially paid), then one should not complain, French eat frogs leg . They eat snails too. The Indian chatterati go gaga over it.

One man's food is another man's poison as the saying goes.

Badguy

What floats in the Ganges is debris, floatsam and jetsam.

One has to be careful that they too do not float. Foreigners are always cautioned when the visit spots near the Ganges. Rough people inhabit areas around the Ganges and they really don't care about causing any diplomatic issues when the handle foreigners!

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Even snakes are eaten in China. I think they eat everything which can be seen on the DISCOVERY CHANNEL. They have a hell of an apatite towards everything. Nice to see that they love their food so much. In INDIA some people don't know the value of food and they wate that food. It is better to eat rather than wasting it.

 

[amoy]

Even snakes are eaten in China. I think they eat everything which can be seen on the DISCOVERY CHANNEL

ya everything. Cantonese are well known for eating lots of ... beyond imagination. I can testify to that becoz I lived among them for years. That's one of many reasons many Chinese make fun of Cantonese all the time. Snake is very delicious, and I even tried a bit of hedgeshrew (rats), and silkworm chrysalis.

Do in Rome as the Romans do.

Badguy, many Chinese have wild (often negative) 'fantasies" abt India/Indians. But mocking them gives no comfort to yourself. There're lots of horrible scenes in China too, like extreme poverty in some remote / mountainous villages of minorities like in Guizhou, or Yunnan - such as drunkards lying on the road, not only materially devastated, but also more importantly, spiritually desperate.

Myth and reality - divided as it is

 

[Ray]

To be frank, in the Commando Survival Training, we had to not only eat a snake, but we had to catch it and then skin and cook it.

Since I had never eaten a snake, I merely put in on the charcoal fire inside a pit and sort of barbecued it. It was rubbery, but then I was no cook and it was not the fault of the snake that I did not find it tasty!

In another training, when we were on survival mode, the Assam Regt boys ate bugs and insects and I also chewed some. They were not bad. When one is hungry, one can eat anything. It just requires acquiring a taste.

In Bengal we relish fish. Our Marwari friends were aghast and repelled that we were eating 'insects'!!

I am told that the Chinese food (authentic i.e. made by Chinese people) is bland and not to the taste of what we eat in India as 'Chinese food'. Maybe, even the real Chinese food may not appeal to us when we are in China.

One has to see TLC's 'Bizarre Food with Andrew Zimmerman' to see some real bizarre food ingredients!







One should try out all local food if one wants to know about that country.

 

[Armand2REP]

One should try out all local food if one wants to know about that country.

Eating street vendor food is also the quickest way to get food poisoning. If you don't see a line, it is likely not safe.

 

[BackToEast]

well, I can fully understand how do you feel when you see those picuture...and I also know that all that are shown in the pictures might just a strip of Ganges..

However, it is true that 90% of CHinese who have been to India have a quite poor impression on the democracy of India.

To be honest, I had always been criticizing CCP and the Chinese gov before i visited Indonesa and India.
My company had business parter in Pune and sales base in singapore.I ever stayed in indonesa for over one year to develop business.
In 2009 and 2010 My singapore colleagues and I ever visited New Delphi ,Pune and Mumbai.
I really had a very poor impression on the democracy of India and Indonesia.
From all these things with my own eyes, I begin to understand the so called democracy can not save China.
1.Chinese people should be united as one
2.We should we work even more hard to improve our life.
3.China should be always be self independant ,no illusion to western country especially France.
4.It's not the so called democracy but the restore of our tradition will save China.

 

[badguy2000]

To be honest, I had always been criticizing CCP and the Chinese gov before i visited Indonesa and India.
My company had business parter in Pune and sales base in singapore.I ever stayed in indonesa for over one year to develop business.
In 2009 and 2010 My singapore colleagues and I ever visited New Delphi ,Pune and Mumbai.
I really had a very poor impression on the democracy of India and Indonesia.
From all these things with my own eyes, I begin to understand the so called democracy can not save China.
1.Chinese people should be united as one
2.We should we work even more hard to improve our life.
3.China should be always be self independant ,no illusion to western country especially France.
4.It's not the so called democracy but the restore of our tradition will save China.

China's thousands of civilized history has left Chinese the unique cultural inheritage,that is ,"working-hard,disciplined and the stress on education".
"working-hard" is the headstream of wealth-creating;
"disciplined" is the precondition of "well-organized society";
"stress on education" is the base of advancement of science&tech;

As long as we Chinese can keep the above virtues, Chinese civilization is destined to be the dominant one on the earth.

 

[jazzguy]

To be honest, I had always been criticizing CCP and the Chinese gov before i visited Indonesa and India.
My company had business parter in Pune and sales base in singapore.I ever stayed in indonesa for over one year to develop business.
In 2009 and 2010 My singapore colleagues and I ever visited New Delphi ,Pune and Mumbai.
I really had a very poor impression on the democracy of India and Indonesia.
From all these things with my own eyes, I begin to understand the so called democracy can not save China.
1.Chinese people should be united as one
2.We should we work even more hard to improve our life.
3.China should be always be self independant ,no illusion to western country especially France.
4.It's not the so called democracy but the restore of our tradition will save China.

I have worked in the developed and developing countries (over 10) for last 15 years. My conclusion is that democracy does not mean prosperity. Democracy means nobody in the government take responsibility. This is called "exit strategy". For the multi party system, it does not make too much difference for you to vote party A or party B. You can not blame party A for the policy failure since you vote them. Another thing in democracy countries is "voting language" speaking by everybody. "voting language" means what people say is to achieve some sort of purpose. Many Chinese probably noticed that in this forum many Indian post a lot of comments confusing people.

 

[badguy2000]

the successful transform from pre-industrialized society to industrialized society alway encounter lots of inevitable conflict among different classes.

only one authoritized center government can ride on those conflicts and drive the society along the right direction.

 

[Ray]

Eating street vendor food is also the quickest way to get food poisoning. If you don't see a line, it is likely not safe.

Well if one is worried about everything one does and controls his sense of adventure, he will remain that much ignorant is what I feel.

I have had street food in countries that I have visited, including some 'exotic' food.

In fact, I like to interact with the population and try to understand their way of life rather than do the usual tourist things of 'Been there, done that'.

But then, everyone to his own ways.

 

[Ray]

To be honest, I had always been criticizing CCP and the Chinese gov before i visited Indonesa and India.
My company had business parter in Pune and sales base in singapore.I ever stayed in indonesa for over one year to develop business.
In 2009 and 2010 My singapore colleagues and I ever visited New Delphi ,Pune and Mumbai.
I really had a very poor impression on the democracy of India and Indonesia.
From all these things with my own eyes, I begin to understand the so called democracy can not save China.
1.Chinese people should be united as one
2.We should we work even more hard to improve our life.
3.China should be always be self independant ,no illusion to western country especially France.
4.It's not the so called democracy but the restore of our tradition will save China.

It appears that modern Chinese on foreign websites make it appear like a fashion statement that they hate/dislike/criticise the CCP!!!!

Have you done so in China?

Try it and you will be locked up in what they so sweetly call - reeducation centres i.e. jail or sent to do some hard labour in a farm or in a mine so that your fundamentals become clear of never criticising the CCP. It will be tough for you and you will not have the luxury of Liu Xiaobo of being only under 'house arrest' since you are no one and the US and the international community will not back.

Obviously, democracy appears weird to you. As weird as the food that the Indian complained of food in China because he was not used to eating snakes and insects.

It would not be weird to me, even though I am an Indian, because I have tasted it.

Hence, to a regimented and indoctrinated mind and psychology, fresh air is stifling!!

 

[no smoking]

Fishing for bodies on China's Yellow River

[video]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11813990[/video]

Watch this video to observe how bodies are consigned to the Yellow River and people make a living by fishing them out to feed their families.

Well, Ray, you really disappointed me.
Did you look at the empty bottles in his boat? He is a person living on collecting rubbish following on the river.
By collocting human body? good luck.