China and the United States Are Preparing for War

[sgarg]

@Srinivas_K, The Muslims were never strong in the modern times. It is far easier to destabilize the Muslim countries compared to China.
As USA took advantage of China, China took advantage of USA.
Chinese have proven one step ahead of USA in this game.

Chinese are fierce nationalists. While plenty of India-born are anti-India, it is very hard to find many anti-China Chinese.

Ukraine may or may not be as per USA's plan. Ukraine situation is far from clear as of today. The propaganda so far is little confusing, and there may be much more to the game than seems at the surface.

Do not treat Ukraine as USA's victory. We need to give this one more time.

 

[Srinivas_K]

How so? PRC holds US Treasury bonds, not the other way around. I guess I am not getting your point.

China invested in USA through treasury bonds, That is the bonds are given by USA in return for the money China gave.

Tomorrow if US-China relations are not good USA can refuse to pay the money in return, they can also use this advantage against China.

Since USA has the power to enforce, USA is in advantageous position.

 

[Srinivas_K]

@Srinivas_K, The Muslims were never strong in the modern times. It is far easier to destabilize the Muslim countries compared to China.
As USA took advantage of China, China took advantage of USA.
Chinese have proven one step ahead of USA in this game.

Chinese are fierce nationalists. While plenty of India-born are anti-India, it is very hard to find many anti-China Chinese.

Ukraine may or may not be as per USA's plan. Ukraine situation is far from clear as of today. The propaganda so far is little confusing, and there may be much more to the game than seems at the surface.

Do not treat Ukraine as USA's victory. We need to give this one more time.

Muslims countries combined man power, oil wealth and economy is comparable to any super power. As soon as second world war is over and peace prevailed over europe and there is no power than can challenge them in the west they turned their attention towards Islam and communism.

They destroyed communism in 40 years and they are destroying muslim lands.

Not even the WOT is complete, rumour says they planned 5 wars.

Lets wait and see what is happening in Hongkong , if they succeed it spreads like a wild fire in China.

CCP will loose control of its power and in that place, who knows pro west govt. may come. Backed by these liberals who support democracy.

An ordinary chinese citizen is patriotic just like Indian, But similar to India they hate their govt. if not more.

I think I have given enough reasons, there are analysis and predictions but they all are mentioned in my posts.

 

[pmaitra]

China invested in USA through treasury bonds, That is the bonds are given by USA in return for the money China gave.

Tomorrow if US-China relations are not good USA can refuse to pay the money in return, they can also use this advantage against China.

Since USA has the power to enforce, USA is in advantageous position.

That is not how I think Treasury Bonds work.

Articles: China Appears Ready to Dump its U.S. Treasury Bonds

Did Russia Just Dump a Huge Amount of U.S. Government Bonds? - The Daily Beast

Of course, there are those that believe otherwise:

What If China Dumps US Treasury Bonds? Paul Krugman inches toward MMT - New Economic PerspectivesNew Economic Perspectives

 

[Srinivas_K]

That is not how I think Treasury Bonds work.

Articles: China Appears Ready to Dump its U.S. Treasury Bonds

Did Russia Just Dump a Huge Amount of U.S. Government Bonds? - The Daily Beast

Of course, there are those that believe otherwise:

What If China Dumps US Treasury Bonds? Paul Krugman inches toward MMT - New Economic PerspectivesNew Economic Perspectives

what I said is correct !!

It is like asking a foreign power to invest in your polices and then controlling them. Since USA has the power and capability.

 

[Razor]

China invested in USA through treasury bonds, That is the bonds are given by USA in return for the money China gave.

Tomorrow if US-China relations are not good USA can refuse to pay the money in return, they can also use this advantage against China.

Since USA has the power to enforce, USA is in advantageous position.

Why did China buy those bonds, if the guarantees associated with it are so flimsy ?

 

[pmaitra]

Are u kidding When Britain bowed out USSR step in,
USA is nothing but neo colonial version of Britain.And another joke USA bow out and PRC u mean Mad in China with allies Noko&pork!s bow out USA

If you want to club Britain and the US together, then yes, you are right. UK handed over its role as globocop to US. I agree that the US is a neo-colonial version of the UK. Immediately after the WWII, and for the following 50 years, the USSR had a clear military advantage over NATO.

Coming to PRC, PRC will slowly edge the Dollar out. It will be gradual. That will automatically force the US to scale down it military commitments.

Let's wait and see how things unfold. It will happen gradually, over 2 or 3 decades.

 

[pmaitra]

No,Military wise it is impossible for USA to defeat USSR (stalemate) but rest of all fields like internal stability,ideology,make frnds..... US is champion.USSR is failed f!lthy socialists

sir, u didn't get it USA is not a singe entity US+NATO+Ind+Jpn+Asean.... with Chi+Pork!+Noko
US take their allies along with them that is the beauty of US but China

You seriously believe the US will fight a war with PRC?

The PRC is a challenge to the US ambitions.
The PRC is a threat to India's survival.

Both India and US want to see PRC weakened, but that is where our similarities end.

India would rather the US fight PRC.
US would rather India fight PRC.

I would take India out of that list. As a matter of fact, even Japan will not fight a war with PRC.

 

[Srinivas_K]

The question here is

Is China willing to confront USA or is China trying to cut a deal with USA to leave it enough space so that it can impose its will??

I think Chinese are smart business people who will try to gobble the resources of other nations and grow strong, wait and watch , before confrontation is their policy. So they go for second choice.

They will support USA and also cut trade deals in return !!

You can see the pattern of Chinese diplomacy, They will engage USA first for dialogue and then they start threatening their neighbours.

China seeks favours from USA and then initiates its expansionist policies, mean while USA is happy that China is walking in self destructive path!!

You seriously believe the US will fight a war with PRC?

The PRC is a challenge to the US ambitions.
The PRC is a threat to India's survival.

Both India and US want to see PRC weakened, but that is where our similarities end.

India would rather the US fight PRC.
US would rather India fight PRC.

I would take India out of that list. As a matter of fact, even Japan will not fight a war with PRC.

 

[Razor]

Why did China buy those bonds, if the guarantees associated with it are so flimsy ?

@Srinivas_K

Still waiting for a reply on this one ?
I'm an economics noob. So please explain.

 

[pmaitra]

Yup i agree with u totally,there is no direct war btw US vs Chi vs Ind bcoz they don't get anything but losses are heavy.My guess is US apply same formula of USSR.China spring&Disintegration of PRC :thumb:

Ind can't stay out,India is/will major Pin for US Chi cold war2.

Didn't understand the last line, but my position is, India needs to stay out of playing global statesman. We have seen the pompous showmanship and duniyadaari by Nehru, and then the 1962 humiliation. India needs to stay out of avoidable conflicts and build its internal strength.

I also agree with the post below:

The question here is

Is China willing to confront USA or is China trying to cut a deal with USA to leave it enough space so that it can impose its will??

I think Chinese are smart business people who will try to gobble the resources of other nations and grow strong, wait and watch , before confrontation is their policy. So they go for second choice.

They will support USA and also cut trade deals in return !!

You can see the pattern of Chinese diplomacy, They will engage USA first for dialogue and then they start threatening their neighbours.

 

[Srinivas_K]

@Srinivas_K

Still waiting for a reply on this one ?
I'm an economics noob. So please explain.

I have no idea upto what extent you know economics.

These bonds performed well before recession so China invested in them, secondly China diversified its investments after recession when exports declined and construction boom began.

I think these are the reason, may be some other reasons which define the bilateral relations between the two nations exists but I have no idea.

 

[Srinivas_K]

Yup i agree with u totally,there is no direct war btw US vs Chi vs Ind bcoz they don't get anything but losses are heavy.My guess is US apply same formula of USSR.China spring&Disintegration of PRC :thumb:

Ind can't stay out,India is/will major Pin for US Chi cold war2.

Let those two countries fight each other , India will have its chance.

Mean while India is in no mood to accept any hegemony from a country which is just a decade ahead !!

 

[Srinivas_K]

There is no direct war btw USSR&US but they fought in viet,Korea,Afg.... and killed those poor chops,so it is called COLD WAR .Same thing hear US&Chi will fought in noko,xinjinag,viet,phl ...and will kill these poor chops,so it is called COLD WAR2.Only Ind has a capacity to make Chi in its knees in cold war2.
@Srinivas_K

India will take part in Cold war2,without Ind support US can't achieve anything.I can explain u but it all looks like some conspiracy theories.But small afg played key role in USSR fall,Failed pork!stan made Ind in its knees for 66 yrs bcoz they have LAND BORDERS.Just imagine what Ind can capable of,Ind will create HAVOC in China wait&see.

Chinese CCP is the weakness of China, they are oppressing the people .

I think the destabilization happens internally.

 

[pmaitra]

I have no idea upto what extent you know economics.

These bonds performed well before recession so China invested in them, secondly China diversified its investments after recession when exports declined and construction boom began.

I think these are the reason, may be some other reasons which define the bilateral relations between the two nations exists but I have no idea.

How do you judge performance of the bonds? I am trying to understand what defines good performance of these bonds.

 

[Srinivas_K]

Destabilization will take time ,why bcoz ppl are earning good $$ and good life style.Once their economy started declining then CCP will face REAL MUSIC.May be in 3+yrs

Czechoslovakia was an industrial power and a good economy before it disintegrated !!

I agree it will take time for economic slow down and CCP to face the music.

 

[Srinivas_K]

How do you judge performance of the bonds? I am trying to understand what defines good performance of these bonds.

Economics is not my field mate !!

It depends on the economy of USA and how USA spends its dollars to give good returns.

 

[pmaitra]

Economics is not my field mate !!

It depends on the economy of USA and how USA spends its dollars to give good returns.

Yes, that is what I knew. Giving good returns, would mean, giving interest on the money loaned. Basically, the US Treasury borrows money and gives out bonds as collateral. These bonds are what US promises to pay back in future. The US can continue to borrow money without having to pay it back, as long as it can pay the interest. The point is, is there a point of where interest owed is more than what the US can afford to pay?

Russia defaulted in 1998.

 

[Srinivas_K]

Yes, that is what I knew. Giving good returns, would mean, giving interest on the money loaned. Basically, the US Treasury borrows money and gives out bonds as collateral. These bonds are what US promises to pay back in future. The US can continue to borrow money without having to pay it back, as long as it can pay the interest. The point is, is there a point of where interest owed is more than what the US can afford to pay?

Russia defaulted in 1998.

There is no central authority to oversee these agreements, these are bilateral agreements.

Chinese money is at the mercy of USA. Even then China has invested in USA means USA-China relations are not bad as it is pictured.

Either USA wants to dilute some of its power and give to China or China is willing to play second to USA.

The second part is seems true to me.

 

[pmaitra]

There is no central authority to oversee these agreements, these are bilateral agreements.

Chinese money is at the mercy of USA. Even then China has invested in USA means USA-China relations are not bad as it is pictured.

Either USA wants to dilute some of its power and give to China or China is willing to play second to USA.

The second part is seems true to me.

Chinese money is at the mercy of the US, and the US might choose not to repay its debts. It might as well do that. What happens next is it will not be able to raise capital because all lenders will lose faith in the US. Moreover, US bonds are not buyer specific, AFAIK, and PRC can sell those bonds at a lower rate in the bond market, which is invariably bring down the value of all US bonds with all creditors, and thus hurt all creditors. It is not quite a bilateral agreement.

I concur with the rest of your comment.