China and Russia can free us of the US

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by ajtr, Jun 5, 2012.

  1. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    12,038
    Likes Received:
    715
    China and Russia can free us of the US

    Pakistan is looking to the East for help. We are pinning our hopes on regional cooperation through blocs such as the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation ( SCO). This bloc boasts support from two major regional powers -Russia and China.

    Why should we support this alliance, one might ask.

    To them, I would like to state simply, we need this to free ourselves from the stronghold of the US.

    We have numerous reasons to support this alliance. For instance, despite all cooperation and the consequent suffering, Pakistan continues to face immense pressure from America. The recent episode of this series of pressure came when Pakistan suspended the Nato supply lines as a backlash of the Salala checkpost attack on November 26, 2011. This suspension led to threats of slashing the civil military aid to the country from the US Congressmen and policy makers.

    This scared Pakistan, because the US is our life-line. They provide us with much-needed money, and we remain at their beck and call due to this unfortunate reality.

    There is increasing pressure on Pakistan by the United States and several other countries towards combating terrorism, as well as in terms of the settlement of the Afghan crisis.

    Washington uses financial instruments, mainly financial aid, and military threats in the form of drone attacks, to keep us dancing to their tune. It has even launched a mass media campaign against Islamabad, accusing Pakistan of supporting terror.

    Pakistan’s possible membership in the SCO presents a lucrative opportunity for us to finally obtain freedom from this mounting pressure. Partnership with super-powers like China and Russia can reduce Pakistan’s dependence on the US and its Western allies. Furthermore, increased cooperation, with these aforementioned regional powers, can also help to lower our dependency on US financial aid – a tool used to keep Pakistan within the crutches of the US.

    The Eastern cooperation can pave way for opening numerous corridors of progress for Pakistan as well as other South Asian states – mainly India and Afghanistan. The alliance can open ways for exporting energy from energy-rich countries such as Russia- Turkmenistan and Iran, to energy-scarce states such as Pakistan and India.

    Energy-deficient countries can greatly benefit from this increased regional cooperation. One such example is the trans-Afghan pipeline, or TAPI (Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India), which surely can help in overcoming some part of the energy shortfall in Pakistan and India.

    In order to achieve these goals and gain a dividend from the SCO, Pakistan needs to participate actively in the activities of the SCO in the areas of combating terrorism, drug trafficking and the Afghan settlement. Drug trafficking has been a major area of concern for Moscow. They claim that it is the ignorance of coalition forces in tackling the issue which has led to more drugs seeping into Russia. Thus, participation and cooperation will help to expedite the process of obtaining full membership in the organisation for Pakistan.

    Interaction with the SCO will create real preconditions for countries to large-scale regional development programmes, particularly in the energy, transport and information spheres. This will eventually lead to an improvement in the areas of economy and the country’s security, strengthening its impact in the region.

    Russia and the Central Asian countries have supported Pakistan’s desire to become a full member of the organisation, while China has refrained from doing so. Sergei Lavrov, the acting Russian Foreign Minister, in a recent SCO meeting pushed for India and Pakistan’s membership in the SCO, coupled with more involvement in the Afghan security situation in a post Nato withdrawal scenario.

    Pakistan must convince Beijing that Islamabad’s full participation in the organisation will be useful in addressing major regional issues. Pakistan must seize the moment, and exploit regional energy resources by partnering with Russia, China and India for energy and commercial trade.

    Let’s free ourselves from the hold of the West by embracing our friends in the East.
     
  2.  
  3. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Pakistan is in such dire straits that they will take the help of anyone including the Devil, let alone China or Russia.
     
    Godless-Kafir likes this.
  4. Mr.Ryu

    Mr.Ryu Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    806
    Likes Received:
    348
    Location:
    Land of first Tejas
    I can see puki's a$$ liking of CHINA and RUSSIA very evident in this post than ever lol

    In simple they need money and now they started Begging again but the door is different this time :laugh:
     
  5. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,524
    Likes Received:
    1,547
    What first came to my mind is, wow if nodding to Pakistan, then how would SCO namely Russia and China handle the same application by India? Do Dragon and Bear sincerely welcome another wild beast, dubious as it is? Then I give it a second thought, let Pakistan in wouldn't entail accepting India too. India enjoyed benefits from both camps in cold war era in the disguise of NAM (of course nobody is naive enough to believe craps like India has ever been non-allied). Should it have been cocooned into SCO India'd certainly jeopardize her relationship with the US and another security organization NATO, thus disable her from an "independent foreign policy", "ambiguity" and "flexibility". So India doesn't genuinely want to be part of SCO

    So, why not take in Pakistan alone and come together to the feast of Afghanistan, energy (pipeline to China but not TAPI please), and security?
     
  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    What exactly are you trying to say.

    Too many thoughts that are independent of each other and then mixed as if in a cocktail shaker.

    Hence, one cannot make out what exactly is this cocktail aiming at.
     
    SADAKHUSH and W.G.Ewald like this.
  7. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,524
    Likes Received:
    1,547
    Well, the flavour of cocktail is SCO should accept Pakistan ALONE
     
  8. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,498
    Likes Received:
    4,679
    SCO is not a silver bullet for Pakistani miseries and complicities.

    Also SCO can not do a squat when India will decide to screw Pakistan along with its con alley and Russian know it very well and have no leverage (actually no one) on us in this regards.

    Till today the oil flows from middle east, when it will start flowing downwards we will see if SCO will be still tolerating rough state like Pakistan who adds no value to it.
     
  9. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,524
    Likes Received:
    1,547
    Galvanizing itself as an anti terrorism, separatism and fundamentalism mechanism, SCO is a collective security org. per se. Once PAK is in, no, India won't dare to screw PAK as part of the machine and Russia or China won't allow that to make SCO a joke. In that sense, SCO (Russia + China) indeed can set PAK free from not only the US but also India.

    Don't get the meaning of "the oil flows from middle east to CAR". In fact CAR itself is resources rich as gives SCO one more dimension of significance. PAK adds much value to SCO like access to warm Arabian Sea, and being instrumental in post-NATO A'stan.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2012
  10. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,498
    Likes Received:
    4,679
    All rouge states think likewise.

    You are another Chinese day dreamer who thinks SCO is a salvation of China and its rouge proxies vis a vis its insecurities from NATO and USA. It reminds me of Pakistani dreams of forming an alliance with all Muslim states of middle east including Turkey.

    SCO is not military alliance and Russia is not going to save China if tomorrow someone decided to spank its ass like some where in SCS or at Indo-Tibet border.

    How it is so difficult for you to understand that the oil flows from middle east not CAR at present. Also your contradiction proves that you are trolling here because if CAR is going to energy hub of future then why sates of CAR or Russia would value accessing hot waters of Arabian sea which is just a flimsy term used by clueless self proclaimed strategist who intentionality ignore that Russia or any other nation of CAR would value Pakistan as transit point either they will use middle east oil or invest heavily in that failed state.
     
  11. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,524
    Likes Received:
    1,547
    What rouge or pink? Or what Russia to save China? All around the bush. Come to the point firing your shots at below

     
  12. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    12,038
    Likes Received:
    715
    Its the PRC which is blocking Pakistan's full membership but Russia and CS state s have supported it. as ith article says so.

    For 50 years pakistan was with in strong alliance with china and usa even then china did diddly squat in 1965 and 1971 above all in 1999 kargil it supported india betraying pakistan.So What make you think that Pakistan's SCO membership will allow china to stop India from attacking pakistan.Moreover what actually china did to support Pakistan after Pak-USA relations went down hill except for empty words and putting demands on pakistan to reign in EITM mujahids same way like usa asks to do more.

    You do $100 billions of trade with india but give only peanuts and empty words to pakistan.
     
  13. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,524
    Likes Received:
    1,547
    China blocking PAK is unverifiable this moment. Anyway the point I made is to welcome PAK into SCO.

    Every nation has to realistically manage its own "expectation" about "alliance" since any form of alliance has its limits. And u have to come up with your definition of "alliance" as we know well Sino-PAK "alliance" is diff. from PAK-US one in essence.

    Sometimes being a member of an alliance is enough of "deterrence". Alliance is not going to work wonders as in some cases PAK ventured to attack India or played with fire like "terrorism" then what would u expect from "alliance"? u certainly know better than me what China has done for PAK.

    And this Karakoram Highway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Are all these empty words? By the way that so-called friendship is not one-way but has to be reciprocal. Taming ETIM is part of it! If "alliance" in your dictionary is about taking without giving then that alliance is non existent!
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2012
  14. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,498
    Likes Received:
    4,679
    Do you have comprehension problems?

    What I have said makes sense but what you are trying to say is nothing but day dreaming and is like talking for Russia, CAR and even Pakistan. Stop talking for them . No one is going to save Pakistan and no one has. NATO is pounding Pakistan everyday with hellfire missiles and you Chinese are witnessing it like cowards. Being a member of SCO Pakistan's luck wouldn't change in a day but when she will start acting like a genuine state. That is my point.

    By quoting some para from articles and random nitpicks from my post is not going to help you. I have called you out to debate on flow of oil from Middle East, warm water bluff and future investment if Russia or CAR will be able to make in Pakistan.

    You are trying to make point to Indians that Pakistan which we say is a terrorist state and has become more rouge on Chinese instigation will be spared by us after becoming member of some mumbo jumbo organization then you should first get consent of Russia and CAR on this before talking for them to us.

    The way Chinese projects SCO here and at other Pakistani forums makes one understand that SCO is nothing but a Chinese con tactic of using Russian weight to bully its enemies and shelter its proxies.

    The reality is in multi polar world no one will take sides for others especially for any impulsive bully or a state that use terrorism as state policy. If China wants to endorse Pakistan to SCO states with flimsy lures like accessing warm Arabian waters then good luck to them. Pakistan is a dead end if energy will flow downwards in future and India is a continuty.

    India can deal with CAR states and Russia independently without Chinese dictation and without compromising our concern on Pakistani terrorism because we know nothing comes for free and that is the only axiom of state art.

    Pakistan friend or foe is to our logistical reality when it comes to accessing energy from CAR. We are quite comfortable with this reality minus Pakistan's terrorism against us.

    I have taken this stand before and will always believe that it is China who has made Pakistan into such a monster and it would go into any length to keep her hostile against India.

    If China wants to write a script in a way by endorsing Pakistan to SCO states (who offers nothing and is indebted to her western masters for good or bad personal reasons, no one forced her into) but not India then you day dreamers are underestimating Indian weight as a big energy consumer for SCO states to consider her membership too. It works well for us too because if by your logic Russia will save Pakistan (a SCO member's) ass from India then same Russia will make Pakistan less hostile against India which defeats Chinese purpose of having counter weight proxy Pakistan against India. Let China convince Russia for Pakistan membership minus India till then stop assuming much.
     
    sehwag1830 and latsar like this.
  15. Sunder singh

    Sunder singh Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    535
    Likes Received:
    143
    Location:
    FROM NAINITAL NOW IN CHENNAI
    supper power china the savor of humanity and will help most innocent nation fxxkistan.
     
  16. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    14,140
    Likes Received:
    8,528
    Location:
    North Carolina, USA
    For purposes of intoxication.

    Shaken, not stirred.:)

    I will be happy when the US is free of Pakistan.
     
  17. Sunder singh

    Sunder singh Regular Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2012
    Messages:
    535
    Likes Received:
    143
    Location:
    FROM NAINITAL NOW IN CHENNAI
    amen then let c how will they survive
     
  18. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    12,038
    Likes Received:
    715
    Its right there in the same article silly .What is your scale of verifying claims? is it verified only when it is published from CCP's mouthpiece.



    Your definition of alliance is to exploit pakistani resources by using its establishment and army by providing weapons to army but loot its people by making army to kill its own population by chinese weapons.And as for Pakistan side of KKH is was made pakistan itself why are you taking credit for it.how much trade you do through KKH its not just even decimal fraction of what you do with india.And alliance is not one way as u said if china can do bad for pakistan than pakistan can also do the same And EITM is that lever pakistan has got to keep china on track.
     
  19. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    12,038
    Likes Received:
    715
    Pakistan is resilient nation and its people are brave. it can survive without usa.
     
  20. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    12,038
    Likes Received:
    715
    Your addiction to free pakistani help will not let you to free your country from pakistan.
     
  21. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2009
    Messages:
    8,941
    Likes Received:
    10,308
    Location:
    India
    Practically it's too late to totally dis-engage Pakistan.At the moment you pack your bags Talibunnies would start their business again in AF and start claiming territories in Pak as well(as it was few years ago) and turning Pak into official Jehadi land.Paki Terrorism would get a new life and base of another 9/11.

    Would be intresting to see US and Pak not engaged with each other since you both are quite used to each other.
     

Share This Page