China and Japan dispute over Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands

[Vishwarupa]

Re: US, Japan review worst-case plans for island dispute.Are we prepar

@ Vishwarupa

Your enemy is the "real strategic ally" of Pakistan (as opposed to its convenient ally cum tormentor) and the country that has slowly occupied part of your border. The enemy is that country that is silently trying to encircle you by taking advantage of the differences you have with your neighbors. That's the real enemy.

We know who is our enemy but our people suffer from Ostrich Syndrome & lack the necessary guts to kick them.

 

[nrupatunga]

China sets air defence zone over disputed islands with Japan

China established an air defence zone over disputed islands administered by Japan, a move that can exasperate tensions between the two countries.

Defence Ministry announced the establishment of East China Sea Air Defence Identification Zone which comes into operation from today. It warned that the aircraft flying over the area should seek permission failing which they are liable for action :shocked:, state-run Xinhua news agency reported.

The zone includes the airspace within the area enclosed by China's outer limit of the territorial sea, it said specifying boundaries in the East China Sea, where the uninhabited disputed islands called Diaoyu by China and Senkakus by Japan were located.

This could really really turn out to be a "show time" folks

 

[nrupatunga]

^^^

 

[nrupatunga]

More than japan, how will obama react to this is the real Q here???

Are chinese confident that obama who couldn't keepup on his red line on syria, can't act here as well?? Or have the chinese bitten much more than they can chew (right now)??

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

The only factor against the Japs is lack of Nukes, notwithstanding the US Nuclear Umbrella......I wish we could make DDGs and Subs like Japan..

 

[amoy]

^^^

I think BBC map is wrong over location of Chunxiao Gas Field.

BLUE line - Japanese set air defence line

Chunxiao is nearby the BLACK dot line, inside Chinese air defence zone

 

[ladder]

China sets air defence zone over disputed islands with Japan


This could really really turn out to be a "show time" folks

It will be a 'no show'

if you remember well, there was a notification by Chinese Maritime agency ( or whatever it was called , before unification as coastguard) that every vessel passing through SCS will be liable to be boarded and checked by them.This was to be enforced on 1st of Jan 2012 or 2013.

When USA and India publicly declared that they would not follow the Chinese diktat, the Chinese tactfully climbed down, stating this rule was valid within their territorial waters only.

Each and every country is within right to board and search within territorial waters and some rights are also provided within respected EEZs.
So, what was the requirement of announcement?

Heck, even Chinese had some incident with some Indian Naval vessel ( Ins Airavat I suppose), which sailed it's course in SCS, and didn't heed to the Chinese warning ( exact version escapes me).

In all it's matter of time before Chinese invent a ingenious reason in whose guise they will climb down.

 

[nrupatunga]

What exactly does defence zone mean?? How are they enforcing it?? What military assets have been moved there to enforce this??

@ladder this is not south chian sea but east china sea, which is much much closer to shore. Yes they may finally fina an "excuse" to climb down form their high horse. But imo they are testing not japan here but obama(usa) here. China having seen usa ability to enforce their orders failed miserably in syria will provoke yankees more and more.

@amoy wrt to china, there are always a different set of maps on every side of china. But one thing for sure, in this case(east china sea), whosoever's map is looked into there are areas which multiple parties claim. Anywaya what could be the reason for setting up an air defence zone now?? And how serious are you people over this defence zone?? Can you will you keep your red lines?? Or will you also go the american way??

 

[ladder]

What exactly does defence zone mean?? How are they enforcing it?? What military assets have been moved there to enforce this??

@ladder this is not south chian sea but east china sea, which is much much closer to shore. Yes they may finally fina an "excuse" to climb down form their high horse. But imo they are testing not japan here but obama(usa) here. China having seen usa ability to enforce their orders failed miserably in syria will provoke yankees more and more.

The mention of SCS incident was an example of how a potential "show time" turned out to be a no show.
To predict the future of this particular development, one has to look into the legalities attached ( about which I have no idea)
But, I wouldn't be very surprised if this thing fizzles out.

 

[amoy]

@nrupatunga below Q&A addresses your queries >> Defense Spokesman Yang Yujun's Response to Questions on the Establishment of The East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone

Q： Why does the Chinese government decide to establish the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone? Is it related to the current situation in the region?

A：Air Defense Identification Zone is an area of air space established by a coastal state beyond its territorial airspace to timely identify, monitor, control and react to aircraft entering this zone with potential air threats. It allows early-warning time and provides air security.

Following the international practice, the Chinese government sets up the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone with the aim of safeguarding state sovereignty, territorial land and air security, and maintaining flight order. This is a necessary measure taken by China in exercising its self-defense right. It is not directed against any specific country or target. It does not affect the freedom of over-flight in the related airspace.

Q: What is the basis for China to establish the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone?

A: The setup of East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone by the Chinese government is not only based on adequate legitimate reference, but also in accordance with current international practice. Since the 1950s, more than 20 countries including some major countries and China's neighboring countries have successively established Air Defense Identification Zones. Chinese government's relevant behavior is in line with the UN Charter and other international laws and customs. China's domestic laws and regulations such as the Law of the PRC on National Defense, the Law of PRC on Civil Aviation and Basic Rules on Flight have also clearly stipulated on the maintenance of territorial land and air security and flight order.

Q: How is the coverage of the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone defined? Why is the boundary of the Zone only 130 km away from some country' territory?

A: The coverage of the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone is defined by China's need for air defense and maintaining flight order. Actually the easternmost point of the Zone is so close to China that combat aircraft can soon reach China's territorial airspace from the point. Therefore it is necessary for China to identify any aircraft from this point to assess its intentions and examine its identities so as to allow enough early-warning time for responsive measures in maintaining air security. In addition, some country established Air Defense Identification Zone as early as in 1969. The shortest distance from their zone to the Chinese mainland is also 130 km.

Q: What responding measures will the Chinese side take when foreign aircraft enter the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone?

A: Announcement of the Aircraft Identification Rules for the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone of the People's Republic of China has made specific rules on the identification of aircraft in related airspace. In the face of air threats and unidentified flying objects coming from the sea, the Chinese side will identify, monitor, control and react depending on different situations. We hope that all parties concerned work actively with the Chinese side to jointly maintain flight safety.

What needs to be specified is that the Chinese side has always respected the freedom of over-flight in accordance with international law. The establishment of the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone does not change the legal nature of related airspace. Normal flights by international air liners in the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone will not be affected in any way.

 

[nrupatunga]

@amoy in whatever way china may sugarcoat it, basically china is saying that these areas are ours as long as it is accepted no issues. This is your RED LINE. But will you people really act if any violations or will you take back your red line?

 

[amoy]

@nrupatunga as in my previous posts it's indicated the air defence identification zone is for " identify, monitor, control and react to aircraft entering this zone with potential air threats. It allows early-warning time "

also posted was a map showing Japanese defence zone (BLUE line), in place far ahead of Chinese . It's a common practice hence Chinese follow suit

Since the 1950s, more than 20 countries including some major countries and China's neighboring countries have successively established Air Defense Identification Zones.

 

[nrupatunga]

@nrupatunga as in my previous posts it's indicated the air defence identification zone is for " identify, monitor, control and react to aircraft entering this zone with potential air threats. It allows early-warning time "

What do you mean by react?? And why did you setup this air defence zone right now??? Why is that any plane civil/military identify themselves for you, that too in a area which is not yours i.e. area on open sea which is 20 nautical miles away from your coast??

 

[amoy]

What do you mean by react?? And why did you setup this air defence zone right now??? Why is that any plane civil/military identify themselves for you, that too in a area which is not yours i.e. area on open sea which is 20 nautical miles away from your coast??

What does "early warning" mean? Before UFO breaching your air space, right?

 

[ladder]

What does "early warning" mean? Before UFO breaching your air space, right?

Problem is that your early warning also comes with possible early/preemptive reaction which is what we here are not getting.
What would you do to a aircraft which is in the zone, but doesn't identify itself?

 

[nrupatunga]

@amoy i asked you about reaction from china and not about early warning or other things. Ok i will frame the Q like this: What if say japan airlines plane going to jakarta from japan does not identify itself to you in this air defence zone of yours??

 

[amoy]

Chinese MOD has a ready made A for your Q - @nrupatunga

Q: What responding measures will the Chinese side take when foreign aircraft enter the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone?

A: Announcement of the Aircraft Identification Rules for the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone of the People's Republic of China has made specific rules on the identification of aircraft in related airspace. In the face of air threats and unidentified flying objects coming from the sea, the Chinese side will identify, monitor, control and react depending on different situations. We hope that all parties concerned work actively with the Chinese side to jointly maintain flight safety.

 

[Zero_Wing]

Re: US, Japan review worst-case plans for island dispute.Are we prepar

let me(half Indian and half Chinese) share you, in DFI, saying India is very tough enemy of China is very welcome and polite.
Saying Chinese are very sorry, regret having war with India will be liked a million times

You mean fake Indian and whole chinese bull$hit right? come on if that's the case why have disputes with all of your neighbors then?

 

[nrupatunga]

PLA Air Force conducts first patrol in air defense identification zone

The People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force conducted its first air patrol after the establishment of the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone.

Shen Jinke, spokesman for the PLA Air Force, said that two large scouts carried out the patrol mission, with early warning aircraft and fighters providing support and cover.

"The patrol is in line with international common practices, and the normal flight of international flights will not be affected," Shen said.

Shen said that the Chinese armed forces are capable of effective control over the zone, and will take measures to deal with air threats to protect the security of the country's airspace.

On Saturday morning, the Chinese government issued a statement on establishing the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone. It also issued an announcement on the aircraft identification rules and a diagram for the zone.

 

[t_co]

Problem is that your early warning also comes with possible early/preemptive reaction which is what we here are not getting.
What would you do to a aircraft which is in the zone, but doesn't identify itself?

Scramble fighters to intercept for a VID (visual identification), which the US, Russia, Japan, Korea, Germany, etc. have been doing to each other for over 40 years.