China and Japan begin talks on building alliance

Discussion in 'China' started by Flint, Oct 5, 2009.

  1. Flint

    Flint Senior Member Senior Member

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    China and Japan begin talks on building alliance

    By Julian Ryall in Tokyo and Malcolm Moore in Shanghai
    Published: 5:00AM BST 05 Oct 2009

    Tokyo and Beijing are discussing plans to create an "East Asian Community," similar to the European Union, that would improve economic and political relationships in the region.

    Eventually, East Asia might even have its own common currency.

    The rapid pace of the apparent détente – since the election of the Democratic Party of Japan on August 30 – has come as a surprise given the generations of ill-will that has grown between the two nations.

    Efforts by the new Japanese prime minister, Yukio Hatoyama, to build new relationships with Japan's Asian neighbours – frequently strained by previous right-wing governments – is being seen as another sign that the administration is turning its back on Washington, Tokyo's staunchest ally since the end of World War II.

    The implications of an East Asian economic alliance for the rest of the world would be far-reaching. Japan is currently the second-largest economy in the world and China is in third place – although those two positions are expected to reverse in the next few years.

    Robert Dujarric, director of the Institute of Contemporary Studies at Temple University, Japan, said: "I think Japan is looking for a way to improve the atmosphere with China, show Japanese leadership and co-operation, as well as improve economic ties and resolve pending territorial issues."

    But Dujarric believes there are benefits that the West could reap from a closer relationship between Japan and the rest of Asia.

    "The US supports the 'stakeholder' theory, that China has to be given a stake in the world order, and this would help," he said.

    Tension between the nations dates back to 1894 when Japan invaded China and defeated the nation's military within nine months. In 1937, the Japanese emperor's army returned and initially swept all before it, capturing Shanghai, Beijing and Nanjing, where an estimated 300,000 Chinese civilians were slaughtered by Japanese troops.

    Some in Japan continue to deny the event ever happened, which has done nothing to build bridges between the two nations.

    In China, public resentment over Japan's colonial rule has proved a major obstacle to improved Sino-Japanese relations.

    A poll by the People's Daily newspaper suggested two thirds of people were in favour of further Asian integration but there is a sense the Communist leadership in China will not risk the wrath of the people by jumping into a hasty arrangement with Japan.

    Yang Jiechi, the foreign minister, said: "China will continue its receptive attitude on East Asian co-operation with relevant sides. China was among the first batch of countries to advocate and support the construction of an East Asian community and has actively engaged in East Asian co-operation and its integration process."

    The Chinese media has observed that it was the Japanese who wanted to revive the process, probably as part of a strategy to gain more influence in East Asia.

    Zhou Yongsheng, a professor of Japanese studies at China Foreign Affairs University, said: "Japan was not interested in the plan at first, but after the global financial crisis it realised that the impetus of its economy lies with China and some newly emerging countries in the region."

    There is also Chinese resistance to the idea of a wider coalition, possibly involving its other traditional rival India.

    Lu Yaodong, the vice-director of Foreign Affairs at the Japanese Research Institute at the Chinese Academy of Social Science told the 21st Century Business Herald newspaper: "The proposal of the East Asia union by the Japanese indicates that Japan establish a leading status in East Asia."

    Mr Hatoyama is believed to have put the proposal to Chinese President Hu Jintao at their first meeting, in New York on September 21, just days after taking office.

    The issue again came up when Foreign Minister Katsuya Okada met his Chinese counterpart, Yang Jiechi, in Shanghai last week, and will be on the agenda when the leaders of Japan, China and South Korea meet in Beijing on October 10.
     
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  3. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Chinese policy is so obvious, create so many organisations they can dominate every one and keep India clear out of them. So what happens to SCO? I guess they can leave for their Japanese partners. We certainly won't be joining them.
     
  4. corpus

    corpus Regular Member

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    isnt china the biggest japanese threat? how come the term is "alliance"?
     
  5. redragon

    redragon Regular Member

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    looking into the big picture my friend, Japan, N/S Korea and China has very close culture background, I don't feel suprise at all for any move like this.

    Remember UK tried to kill USA in cradle? Now they are closest alliance.
     
  6. Flint

    Flint Senior Member Senior Member

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    Japanese foreign policy seems to be changing in the light of the economic crisis. The newly elected government is more open towards building relations with China.
    It is interesting that the Japanese themselves have proposed this. They realize their increasing economic dependence on China and want to secure their long term interests.
     
  7. corpus

    corpus Regular Member

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    makes sense........ still... there is almost a 100 yr gap between US and UK going to war and becoming allies.. on the other hand most japanese defense procurement, ops doctrine, etc factor in chinese threat..
     
  8. redragon

    redragon Regular Member

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    It has been 60 years for WWII.
    Maybe not related to the topic, but anyone realized that China is India's #1 international trade partner? I mean if you only play in DFI, you may conclude that a war is at door step between China and India, hahaha:india:
     
  9. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

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    japanese are very very scared of china. they are not sure if USA will back them for real, given their mess as of today. also remember japanese also have problems with the russians. so instead of being belligerent to china and risking a war they just want to make peace in their own interest. also one less threat helps them.
     
  10. Flint

    Flint Senior Member Senior Member

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    ^Remember this is economic alliance that they are talking about, not military. However, whether it leads to military alliance in future is debatable.
     
  11. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    It is better for the Japanese to build an alliance with China then rely on USA for their security, especially since USA was the nation that dropped the atomic bomb on them,but staying towards US will only keep Japan in 2 camps one camp where Japan is totally helpless and at the mercy of USA for their security or second where USA may fuel an arms race or sell defensive weapons using N.korea or China or Taiwan as a premise. This would also mean US bases may not be needed in Japan in the future. This is a good development for both China and Japan and for Asia in general,one last point nobody mentioned is Australians may also be very much against this since it would mean further isolation for them.
     
  12. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

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    i was not intending at the alliance militarily. by bringing economics the japanese are trying to bring down the temperature down atleast on the more belligerent threat for their own interest is what i was intending.
     
  13. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Yang Jiechi, the foreign minister, said: "China will continue its receptive attitude on East Asian co-operation with relevant sides. China was among the first batch of countries to advocate and support the construction of an East Asian community and has actively engaged in East Asian co-operation and its integration process."
     
  14. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    In the US, the power of Big Business is unmistakable. For example, big insurance companies have spent $585.7 million dollars to kill Obama's health care reform. See http://www.campaignmoney.org/HMO_insurance_spend_to_kill_reform

    Big Business in Japan and China are interested in making more money by working together more closely. It is my opinion that Japan made a mistake by not sincerely recognizing and apologizing for the atrocities of WWII. Japan should have stopped antagonizing China by visiting the Yasukuni shrine. Nevertheless, business relationships have continued to grow broader and deeper.

    I think redragon is right. At DFI, we think that war is breaking out at any moment in many places. The truth is that few countries are willing to risk their business interests over a meaningless war. A war is expensive and the gains rarely outweigh the cost of the war.
     
  15. smiling_scorpion

    smiling_scorpion Regular Member

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    so what?is there any evidence can prove China hold the idea of Asia-Union firstly in your words?and is there any wrong for China to seek a good relationship with her neighbor countries??
     
  16. Martian

    Martian Respected Member Senior Member

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    China's approach is very business-like. Her enemies are WWII Japanese, who are now 80 years old. China is intelligent enough to realize that she bears no grudge against the current generation of Japanese. For mutual prosperity, China has close trade relations with Japan and South Korea, both close US allies. For that matter, China also has close trade relations with ASEAN, Taiwan (ahem, renegade province), and even India (cough *hot and cold political relations*).

    I don't think that anyone is worried about a military alliance between China and Japan. It is not because they can't form some sort of mutual defensive military alliance. China and Japan alone are too big to be attacked by any country except by the United States. We know that isn't going to happen because America is a liberal democracy. The idea that China may someday invade Japan for her four resource-poor rocky home islands is silly. In the modern world, I'm beginning to think that military alliances are old-fashioned ideas from another era.

    Perhaps India and Pakistan should find some way to bury the hatchet and form a closer economic alliance for mutual prosperity. For that matter, how about Indian and Bangladeshi economic ties as well? Why not give the East Asian Community some competition? Make the South Asian Community between India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh into a real economic and political force. Every time India asks for a permanent UN seat, Pakistan opposes it. Unless India and Pakistan speak with one voice, the Indian hope of a permanent UN seat won't get very far. South Asians need to speak with one voice.
     
  17. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    What suprised me is you are worring about india when this "east asea community" is located next to russia's door.

    Why a russian care so much about india's interest?

    Am i missing anthing?
     
  18. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Chinese foreign minister said so... is that not good enough? :stinker:
     
  19. ppgj

    ppgj Senior Member Senior Member

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    india wants such a mechanism so it calms both from complicated matters which may take a long time to settle. infact india has given pakistan MFN status. but they do not want to move forward unless j&k is settled. some wise people and businessmen in pakistan too favour it but GOP and the ARMY do not support that.
    well, SAARC is up though not running in the way it should. but eventually it will. pakistan, by sabotaging the summits by harping on bilateral disputes, will be left behind.
     
  20. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Russia has better hopes of joining the EU rather than a 3 nation "community"(China, S Korea and Japan). Taiwan may not join it. N Korea is not rich enough.
     
  21. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Vladimir this will be the second time the Chinese backstab Russia first time taking USA's side to help bring down the Soviet empire and now taking Japanese side while being in SCO. This may have been proposed by USA to bring down SCO.
     

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