China and Brazil: A new emerging strategic partnership

Discussion in 'China' started by bengalraider, Nov 30, 2009.

  1. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    The Beijing-Brazil Naval Axis

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    Ever since China not so secretly bought several aging Soviet aircraft carriers during the 1990s, China's ambitious naval plans have been the subject of fevered speculation by military analysts. In March, Chinese Defense Minister Liang Guanglie offered the strongest confirmation yet that China plans to embark on a major aircraft-carrier building program, telling his Japanese counterpart, "We need to develop an aircraft carrier." The Pentagon thinks that the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) could have multiple carriers up and running within the decade, with construction costs likely to run into the billions. With little in the way of naval aviation experience, China would need to get its sailors and pilots up to speed in a hurry to meet that timetable -- and that means finding an already operational carrier to train on.

    The trouble is, only four countries still operate carriers capable of launching conventional aircraft. The United States has little interest in helping the Chinese military; France is prohibited from doing so by a European Union embargo; and Russia has recently grown more wary about military cooperation with its powerful southern neighbor. That leaves Brazil, which was only too happy to let PLAN officers train aboard its 52-year-old carrier, the São Paulo (which it bought from France in 2000). Brazilian Defense Minister Nelson Jobim revealed the program in an interview with a Brazilian defense website in May. Although the exact terms of the deal are unknown, it is widely thought that the Chinese might be funding a restoration of the aging São Paulo in exchange for the training program. A Chinese naval website also hinted that China might be helping Brazil build nuclear submarines, and Jobim himself said that he hoped the program would lead to military cooperation in other areas.

    The United States has long been the dominant naval power in East Asia, but Chinese ships have recently been growing bolder about shadowing and confronting U.S. vessels and launching legal challenges to what Beijing views as unlawful intrusions into Chinese waters. With China and India undergoing massive military buildups -- the Indians are working on a plan to convert a Russian aircraft carrier for their own use -- U.S. naval supremacy may be slipping.

    Publicly, the U.S. Navy maintains that a Chinese carrier wouldn't affect the military balance of power in the region, but this year's annual Pentagon report on China's military capabilities warns that the country's modernization campaign could "increase Beijing's options for military coercion."

    GUANG NIU/POOL/Getty Images

    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/11/30/the_top_10_stories_you_missed_in_2009?page=0,5
     
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  3. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Chinese Defense Minister Liang Guanglie (L) and visiting Brazilian Defense Minister Nelson Jobim inspect the guard of honour in Beijing, China, Nov. 16, 2009. (Xinhua/Liu Jiansheng)

    China, Brazil reach five-point consensus to strenghten military exchanges



    BEIJING, Nov. 16 (Xinhua) -- China and Brazil here on Monday reached the five-point consensus to strengthen bilateral military exchanges during talks between their senior military officers.

      Chinese Defense Minister Liang Guanglie held talks with visiting Brazilian Defense Minister Nelson Jobim Monday afternoon.

      The two sides have decided to increase group visits and strengthen young and middle-aged military officer exchanges. They would also seek to expand cooperation on military and personnel training and conduct exchanges and coordination in peacekeeping actions.

      China and Brazil would enhance cooperation on military industry and science and technology. And a joint commission of the defense ministries of the two countries would be established for further exchanges and cooperation.

      During the talks, Liang said China-Brazil relations have entered a new phase of comprehensive development since Chinese President Hu Jintao and Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula visited each other's country in 2004.

      The pragmatic cooperation in various areas between the two countries has been continuously enhanced and their strategic partnership has been increasingly deepened, Liang said, adding that their military ties have developed smoothly with frequent high-level visits and increased pragmatic exchanges and cooperation.

      Liang said, the two armed forces are expected to explore new areas of cooperation and further their friendly cooperation.

      Nelson Jobim said Brazil hoped to continuously deepen its pragmatic military cooperation with the Chinese armed forces within the framework of their strategic partnership.

    Editor : Ouyang Dongmei

    China, Brazil reach five-point consensus to strenghten military exchanges
     
  4. venkat

    venkat Regular Member

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    The author is ill informed .India has been operating aircraft carriers for years now. i have a feeling china,Brazil and pakistan might have formed an evil axis for the exchange of nuke technology ,in exchange for Brazillian defence tech. for example brazil exported 100 anti radiation missiles made by mektron to pakistan during post 26/11 tensions between india and pak.why should brazil support pakistan at that crucial time? May be AQ khan and co active in Brazil transfering nuke tech!
     
  5. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    The antiradiation missiles have a 20km range, this means Pakistani pilots would have to be deep in Indian territory for the missiles to be effective, 2 questions arise can Pakistanin planes get deep into Indian territory without being shot down? Can the Pakistani planes return after firing the missile without being shot down?? There is no axis forming Brazil is not going to risk anything for nuclear proliferation to Pakistan. The missile sale to pakistan is believed to be revenge for the collapsed DOHA talks when Brazil viewed India as the cause of the collapse.
     
  6. venkat

    venkat Regular Member

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    ARM is a potent weapon against AD Radars gaurding the border.Of course during serbian war microwave ovens placed in the thick forests attracted the missiles more than the Radars. :stinker: i read reports that brazil is keen on acquiring nuke tech. nuke tech for non peaceful purposes is available only in the black market:twizt:!
     
  7. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    what nuke technology does Pakistan have that Brazil is so eager to acquire?? Brazil is a NPT signatory so who cares let the P5 deal with it.
     
  8. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Wonder what uncle sam will do to put the spanner in the works of this relationship.
     
  9. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    The author talks about conventional aircraft i believe he is referring to aircraft being launched from CATOBAR carriers, something India has not operated since we converted the vikrant into a STOBAR.
     
  10. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Lula is close to both Chavez of Venezuela and the Castro's of Cuba, Brazil has got a leftist government after a long time. i believe the Americans could pressurize Brazil by leaning on NATO to stop spares and support to the Brazilian military, the Brazilian military operates a lot of american equipment the support for these could be affected.
     
  11. qilaotou

    qilaotou Regular Member

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    Maybe Brazil is hoping to buy a discounted carrier ship from China in the future.
     
  12. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    A training programme on the Sao Paulo? Is that to train pilots how to land on a docked carrier? Well, I guess that makes sense when Varyag will be the same thing. :sarcastic:

    Secondly, Brazil has been approaching France to help them with nukes. Their technology, even if sold a generation old, is far more promising than China.
     
  13. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    More likely that than trying to get nukes from Pak. If Brazil tries to break NPT they will be the next Iran. This agreement is really a piper tiger considering Brazil has access to Western technology.
     
  14. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    Of course this is part of the process started by China to spread it's influence in LatAm.

    But there is more to the relation between China and Brazil than this Naval execise. This is all about oil. Recently Brazil has discovered off shore oil in large quantities and it is billed to be one of the largest oil field discoveries. Experts predict that the discovery is so large that it would present the world with a credible alternative to Middle East Oil.

    Brazil is turning to China to finance their petro projects as they are getting much better credit terms than they could get from the US and with lesser strings attached.
    Please also remember that after the RIO tinto spat the other large alternate supplier for Iron Ore is Brazil.

    Here is an old article from WSJ that will shed some light on this issue.

    Brazil Turns to China to Help Finance Oil Projects

     
  15. qilaotou

    qilaotou Regular Member

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    You are copying Mao's words, Mr. Russ. Actually Chinese engineers need pressure to be more innovative and productive. Thanks to the US and Russia. You may not know your days of being a macho is numbered. I'll give you some updates about PLAAF. The Cy-33 has flown a few times smoothly with TH engines. The engines WS-10A or FWS-10, are also installed on the prototype 4th G fighters. The new fighter will take off no later than April 30, 2010. Two of 16 ton high thrust engines are already made for test. Since you are always big mouthed about your knowledge on China. You ought to make claims right now as to what are the copies of Russians. Do you know anything about HQ-19? WS-10H? YJ-18? or program SG? There are already activities going on in three construction sites for Chinese carriers, do you even know one of the places?

    Indians are wise to use their money in procurement of military eqipment. They put you on by signing a long time development project. And most likely they will buy their MMRCA american. So you probably end up with your terminator with small buyers such as Vietnam. Your tech base will be dried out in near future if you are still so arrogant. Your Pak Fa is really a backward copy of F-22 in terms of aerodynamic design.

    It was India and China that saved your assss in 1990s. We've got thousands of Russian engineers working in our defence industry. These Russians are really assimilated to the society. So be prepared for meeting a young Chinese spy in Moscow who looks more Russian than you.
     
  16. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Copying Mao's words? I thought Mao said "political power grows out of the barrell of a gun." His push to make China into a great power lead to the deaths of tens of millions and made a backwater nation. Chinese state engineers don't know anything except immitation. All the good engineers and scientists leave to the West to make their inventions causing a brain drain far greater than any nation on earth.

    China doesn't have the Su-33 or the T10K prototype from Ukraine. In fact, it still sits in Lugansk aviation muesem to this day. CCP wanted to purchase Su-33 for reason, because they don't have it. :sarcastic:

    I certainly hope not, we wouldn't want your first next generation J-10 prototype to crash. :sarcastic:

    16 tonnes eh? One 117S produces twice that much thrust. The fighter you quote will be a piece of crap.

    Do you know anything about copies of Russian equipment? How do I know? I was in the Russian military and work in the state defence order so figure out my knowledge base. Your fantasy R&D projects are not my concern because I know exactly how they will end up, delayed and cancelled.

    Your crystal ball is a bit clowdy with Han inferiority complex. Why don't you clean it up with a dose of reality and get back to us.

    Thousands of engineers huh? Russian engineers are there on a rotating basis on energy, transportation, and defence projects which are administered by their RUSSIAN companies. The Chinese state doesn't pay near enough to entice Russians to make the move. The Russian diaspora in China are decendents of their ancestors that moved there years ago, they only number 15,000 today. The Russian brain drain went to Silicon Valley mostly, the Jews went to Israel, and many went to Western Europe. They pay high enough wages to draw them out. When I worked in Western China, I saw how Russians were viewed, "White Devil" so why would Russians stay in a land where they are hated for their skin colour and earn far less than they would at home? Your comments are all fantasy. You do not know the reality of the situation.
     
  17. CS1.6

    CS1.6 Regular Member

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    quite interesting, military cooperation with Brazil is very new concept and actions;
     

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