China: An enemy at large

Discussion in 'China' started by Vladimir79, Oct 18, 2009.

  1. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    China: An enemy at large

    By M.V. Kamath

    China is no friend of India. According to China expert Gordon Chang, author of The Coming Collapse of China, "China sees India as an adversary and wants to destabilise it". According to him, "China has supported terrorists who operate in India and China transferred nuclear weapons technology to Pakistan to keep India in check." The closer Pakistan is at the breaking point, the more China will try to encircle India by making friendly overtures towards India’s neighbours.

    Does anyone remember the time when India was forced to take action against Pakistan forces in East Bengal as millions of refugees began to pour into West Bengal following the revolt of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman against Islamabad’s military misrule? Forced to take military action, India stormed into East Bengal and defeated the Pakistani Army and took 90,000 Pakistani soldiers as prisoners-of-war. It was at that time that one of India’s worst enemies, US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, tried to persuade China to attack India.

    The same story at a different level is being enacted now. Pakistan itself is in deep trouble. It is scared that India may take advantage of its current situation and amass its troops along the Indo-Pak border. Pakistan, under pressure from the US has withdrawn a sizeable segment of its forces from the East for action against the Taliban in the West. Pakistan is afraid that India might take this opportunity and invade it. In the circumstances, the Pakistan Armed Forces must have persuaded Beijing to indulge in illegal activities along the Sino-Indian border to distract the Government of India.

    According to the Indian Army chief, there were 21 Chinese incursions in June, 20 in July and 24 in August. Between 2006 and 2008 Chinese intrusions doubled from 140 incidents to 270. These are obvious tactics, but they should be taken seriously. For Shri SM Krishna, External Affairs Minister, to play down the aggressive tactics employed by China in the Ladakh region by saying that the Sino-Indian border is "most peaceful" fools no one. Shri Krishna may be playing the diplomatic game but either he is unwilling to read up on history or is ignorant of how China betrayed India even as Nehru and VK Krishna Menon were espousing Hindi Chini bhai bhai.

    China is no friend of India. According to China expert Gordon Chang, author of The Coming Collapse of China, "China sees India as an adversary and wants to destabilise it." According to him, "China has supported terrorists who operate in India and China transferred nuclear weapons technology to Pakistan to keep India in check." The closer Pakistan is at the breaking point, the more China will try to encircle India by making friendly overtures towards India’s neighbours, Mynmar, Bangladesh, Nepal and Sri Lanka. The United States can do nothing. Either it doesn’t want to or is incapable of taking China on-a nation to which it is deeply indebted. It is shocking to think that it is beholden to Pakistan for containing the Taliban.

    To see the United States, the only Super Power on earth grovelling at the feet of Pakistan and promising it $7.5 billion in aid over five years, most of which goes into the pockets of the Pakistan Army, is unbelievable. An official US agency had charged Pakistan with misusing American aid to fight the Taliban by spending the money to buy arms to fight India. And now, to top it all former President Pervez Musharraf has himself admitted that Pakistan has been freely using US aid to strengthen its defences against India. In an interview he even went so far as to say that he did not care whether the US would be angered by his disclosure. Pakistan gets its arms practically free. India has to spend billions to match Pakistan’s offensive capabilities. The US is thus enforcing an arms race in South Asia to India’s detriment.

    With the United States as ‘friend’, India does not need enemies. China is trying to keep India in perpetual fear of war and has had the impertinence to warn the Dalai Lama not to visit Arunachal Pradesh and especially Tawang. It is here that Dalai Lama halted in 1959 when he escaped from Lhasa. He has close links with a monastery there and he has every right to visit it. China’s remarks must be treated with total disdain. If once India gives in, China will misunderstand it as weakness and seek to make more demands.

    Already there is a general feeling that India is weak-minded and can be easily threatened to submission. Delhi should not give the wrong signals. At the same time, Pakistan’s provocative act of firing rockets across the Wagah border calls for instant reaction. This also is a deliberate attempt to see how far Pakistan can go before Delhi reacts. The suggestion must have come from China. One sees more than a similarity between Chinese incursions in Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh and Pakistani infiltration into Indian territory. The United States can be of no help either way. It has been consistently unreliable in the last four decades. The disgraced Pakistani nuclear scientist AQ Khan has revealed that Pakistan was ready to test a nuclear bomb as early as 1984 as the US was inclined to overlook its clandestine atomic programme in the initial years, due to Islamabad’s involvement in the US-led war against the Soviet presence in Afghanistan.

    The US even looked the other way when Pakistan bought 200 anti-aircraft missiles from North Korea during the Kargil War and the dollars came from US aid. Even when North Korean engineers came to visit the Kahuta nuclear plant in Pakistan quite openly, the US had nothing to say. A Q Khan got away, as they say, with murder. He could do anything illegal like supplying equipments to Iran or Libya and no questions were asked. The current Pakistani attacks have not brought out one single protest or warning from Washington. Obviously, as Gordon Chang says, everybody is aware of America’s current problems which prevents Washington from taking a strong stand.

    Apart from ‘invading’ Indian territory, China is becoming a host to terrorists. What arms, for instance, was a China-bound UAE Air force plane carrying when it made an emergency landing in India? At first the pilot lied about the cargo. When its real nature was discovered, there were red faces. For whom were those arms meant for? Certainly not for China? They are obviously intended for terrorists who have been given shelter in China and who make occasional forays in North East India. Shri Krishna may not want to show his hand but if he really believes that the recent incidents are not a cause for concern, India is going to be in real trouble soon. The time is ripe to tell both Pakistan and China that there is a limit to India’s forbearance and they had better beware. Barbarians do not understand politeness. They understand power and the willingness to use it. Shri SM Krishna must think again. India has paid dearly for *****footing in the past. It would be foolish to repeat the performance all over again.

    Organiser - Content
     
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  3. panditji

    panditji New Member

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    I was actually puzzled with that news about a UAE plane forced to land, and found to contain an undeclared cache of arms. I mean why arms to CHINA?? and of all places, from UAE?? It was like sending coal to Newcastle! And then it was quietly cleared away to takeoff and go on its course... wierd...
     
  4. Koji

    Koji New Member

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    Wow. An article that states outright that Pakistani's and Chinese are barbarians. I believe that destroys all sense of credibility that the author or the website has.

    The author also needs to get his facts straight. That chartered cargo plane from the UAE was flying Chinese military equipment back from a defense expo! It used the airport in India as a refueling station.

    Finally, any credibility this author has left is completely destroyed by the fact that he bases his article on Gordan Chang! The same author who claimed the imminent collapse of the Chinese state in 2006. What a lunatic. To alienate Chang even more, he is a regular contributor to that god awful person, Glenn Beck, on Fox news.

    Bogus article.
     
  5. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    the original article goes a bit far-fetched and into the ridiculous too.

    China , to me , or at least certain portions of their establishment are showing their frustration at not being to contain india and are looking for soft points on the border and other areas in the indian administration but i think they will find it getting harder all the time !
     
  6. Indianrabbit

    Indianrabbit Regular Member

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    I do not care so much about the contents of article but it seems to me that China has recently started to be more aggressive. China should understand that a small country like Pakistan with its economy in dire states cannot be contained than how come they contain India.I have seen many Chinese posters here commenting here as if they are greater then god. We should start our work towards preparing a strong defence against China, if we do not do that, I am sure China will take advantage. We should be in a position where we can inflict a huge damage to China, in case they attack.
     
  7. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Don't worry about this, your gov already did that. Remember, when you exlpode the nuclear bomb in last 90s, your defence minister told the whole world that china's "nuclear threat" was the motivation when there was not a single chinese official threat of using nuclear bomb on india.
     
  8. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    A good specimen of 'yellow journalism'.

    No ill just statin' the facts.

    M.V. Kamath seems to be gettin on in age.
     
  9. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    The UAE arms expo was in February. Why would they be delievering weapons in September? The only other arms expo will be in November, but then why would they be returning to China 2 months before the expo? Then why would they not declare the items of such a deadly nature?

    If it was such yellow journalism, why is the Indian government moving capabilitiies to the LOC in never seen before numbers? Why are rocks being written as "property of China" in Indian territory? Why is China building a dam, they said they weren't going to build, that effects 100 million people? Why is China fighting development loans in AP? Why is China starting to run anti-Indian propoganda in state run media? Why are Chinese think tanks writing about destablising India?

    Chennai Centre for China Studies China Should break up the Indian Union, suggests a Chinese Strategist

    Hindi Chini bhai bhai does not seem to be on there minds.
     
  10. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    Chinese guys on this forum are sometimes like robots - many of them just reply to post about China-India relations as if China is not the aggressor in this relationship......and they cant understand why Indians are getting upset.

    Its almost as if they are in denial obout what China is doing - They simply refuse to believe any of the facts on the ground.

    Its almost as if their nationalistic fervour clouds their brain, and they cant think logically anymore. Too much brain-washing at Chinese schools I guess, or a lack of critical thinking skills.
     
  11. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Yes, no Chinese official threat.

    They are angels.

    They exploded their bomb in Lop Nor for heating purposes, right?
     
  12. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Did chinese ever publicly threated to use nuclear weapon on india?
     
  13. Vladimir79

    Vladimir79 Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Nah, they did it so they could get radiation burns.

    YouTube - chinese nuclear test
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    China has never gone to war.

    They just 'teach lessons'!

    Masters at obfuscation and hypocritical syntax.
     
  15. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    That is absurd!
    I believe both China and India want to establish a good relationship with each other, because both sides will benefit from a warm environment between China and India. We have wasted too much precious resources on confrontation, it is time for us to cooperate.

    Who really dont to see Hindi Chini bhai bhai ?
    I guess it is Russia.
    If that comes true, who else will buy Russia's weapons?
     
  16. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    This is a nice article from Mr.K.Subrahmanyam on the recent events



    To read the full article please follow the link.
    Making sense of China
     
  17. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    Nimo_cn......From a people standpoint - I believe that common citizens of China and India want a peaceful relationship based on strong commerce and mutual growth, except for maybe some hyper-nationalistic right wing types.

    Most Indians dont really care even if China becomes the most dominant Asian power provided that it does not try to throttle other countries progress and growth.

    But that is not what the CPC and its leadership is doing. China has been actively undermining India for the last 50 years thru their Pak proxy.
    The Chinese sees India as the only country that has the potential to contest for Asian dominant power status - provided that India gets its act together.

    Hence, your Chinese leaders see this as a "zero sum game".

    With Pakistan now slowing falling into disarray with its own problems and the strong US arm twisting it....China now has a tough decision to make - they can no longer depend on Pak to do their dirty work for them vis-a-vis bleeding India infinitely, nor is China's influence on Pak that great anymore with the US breathing down their neck.

    China also has a major PR dilemma on its hands....how do you keep supporting a country like Pak that is the virtual breeding and training ground for every major Jihadi terrorist attack in the world, and still expect the world to respect China as a responsible peaceful world power and UNSC member.

    China now has to get its own hands dirty. This is why India-China relations are going to get really tense in the future.

    Regardless of what the average Chinese layman thinks....the facts on the ground, and the history of the past 50 years shows that China is no friend of India !!

    The fact that many Chinese posters in DFI dont admit this, simply means that that they are not intellectually honest.
     
  18. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    Please answer the question, did china ever threat to use nuclear weapon on india?
     
  19. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    You don't have to threaten with Nuclear weapons when you go to a war. Remember, China has NFU policy regarding Nuclear weapons, so it cannot threaten any country with nuclear weapons unless other country threatens to use them.

    So, what is your point?.
     
  20. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

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    Yes china did many a times.
    Through Pakistan, If you know the word Proxy, you may understand. Everyone on this planet understands it, only chines people are an exception.
    Regards
     
  21. amitkriit

    amitkriit Senior Member Senior Member

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    I was going through Sino-India border skirmishes/wars and this is what I found:

    a> 1962 Sino-India war: 90,000 strong Chinese forces smashed through Indian borders defended by 5000-6000 Indian soldiers, Indian forces never increased beyond 12000 in numbers, while Chinese numbers increased to 1,80,000, during the course of war due to logistical problems faced on Indian side, while Chinese came well prepared.
    Result Chinese military victory. China declares unilateral cease-fire and withdraws to pre-war positions.
    Territorial changes China controls Aksai Chin area (de facto)
    India controls North-East Frontier (South Tibet, Arunchal) area (de facto)

    b> 1967 Sino-Indian skirmish: Also known as Chola incident, took place in Sikkim, and independent country at that time.
    Result Indian victory. Chinese invasion repelled. Bilateral ceasefire. Sikkim later became a state of India in 1975. China still wants Sikkim as part of Tibet.

    c> 1987 Sino-India border skirmish: Occurred at Sumdorong Chu Valley. This was the second conflict between the PRC and India in this region. Indians were better prepared this time.
    Result Indian victory. PLA invasion of Arunachal Pradesh repelled.

    After 1962, Chinese military ventures against India have resulted in failure.

    Chinese don't think it possible to make India surrender by use of Military forces alone, with India set to achieving Military parity with China by 2012 (not interms of numbers, but in terms of capability and platforms). They need to play other cards, and they need to play well. I hope India is still left with a few tricks under her sleeves.
     

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