Chabahar port vs Gwadar port

Discussion in 'Subcontinent & Central Asia' started by bhramos, Sep 24, 2009.

  1. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    13,206
    Likes Received:
    6,638
    Location:
    Telangana/India/Bharat
    Chabahar port vs. Gwadar port

    which port will have more influence in Afghan or Central Asia.
    which port will Succeed , and which will win?
    Pls give reasons for your answer .
     
  2.  
  3. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    13,206
    Likes Received:
    6,638
    Location:
    Telangana/India/Bharat
    Some info about both ports.

    Central Asia?s Seaport: Gwadar or Chabahar? ? Registan.net


    Both Iran and Pakistan have developed strategies to create strong economic and transport ties with Central Asia and beyond. Anchoring these strategies are two new seaports: Gwadar in Pakistan and Chabahar in Iran. Spreading out from these ports are existing or planned transportation infrastructure that leads into their respective country’s economic center and importantly for Central Asia, northwards. Both ports are well towards becoming fully operable and are offering generous incentives for companies and governments to do business in their ports. However, serious political, economic and logistical problems remain. For Central Asia one of these two ports, or indeed both, will likely become important links to world markets.
    Tip: look way down into the bottom left-hand corner to see the ports.

    The problems with Karachi and Bandar Abbas

    Karachi is already overburdened with severe congestion from commercial, fishing and military shipping. And from a strategic vantage point it is quite problematic. The Indian Navy targeted the port in 1971 and any blockade in the future would devastate Pakistan since that country has an overreliance on the port of Karachi. The port of Qasim, built in the 1970s was to relive some of that burden and the port of Gwadar is expected to further reduce the reliance on Karachi.
    Bandar Abbas is of enormous strategic significance to Iran as it is located on the Strait of Hormuz leading into the Persian Gulf. But that is also a problem for Iran. The area is already burdened with high traffic and of course, the U.S. Navy. Iran wishes to have another port that is more conducive to trade and further growth.

    Gwadar
    Gwadar, being much further away from India than Karachi, makes obvious strategic sense. But it is its commercial potential that will provide the most benefits. Gwadar is not some long-term project. Its first phase, with 75% of the costs covered by the Chinese government, is already completed. The existing docks, built by the Chinese Harbor Engineering Company, are now being operated by Port of Singapore. Port of Singapore won the contract over Dubai Ports World, the company that was forced out of America by opportunistic xenophobes in both political parties there. Phase two will be completed by 2010, adding even more capacity. Ziad Haider, a researcher at the South Asia Program at the Henry L. Stimson Center, noted that Pakistan can make the project succeed if it maintains the financial and political support of China for the project and if it makes some concessions to the Baluchis near Gwadar, who have already carried out deadly attacks on Chinese engineers.
    The problem with Gwadar, wrote Ammad Hassan in his thesis for the US Naval Postgraduate School, is that while the port has been built, “the supporting infrastructure of railroad link, industrial capacity, and civic structures at Gwadar is almost non-existent.” And of course, all analysts mention Pakistan’s extremely problematic relations with the ethnic Baluch in the area who, in addition to having been in a low-grade insurgency for some time, are not at all supportive of the port. And to understate another issue, southern Afghanistan is not quite ready to be a reliable transport corridor for Pakistan to access Central Asia, despite the Afghan government’s voiced support for the project. Nevertheless, the idea of further integrating Central Asian and Russian resources southward with the Asian and Middle Eastern market has others optimistic about the long-term prospects. The Asian Development Bank is somewhat cautious though, noting that initially the port will be significant only to Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Tajikistan.
    Chabahar
    Gwadar’s competition for trade and transport will come from Chabahar, the new Indian-financed port in Iran. A port outside of the Persian Gulf makes sense from a strategic and logistical viewpoint for Iran. The port of Chabahar was part of a plan to develop transportation infrastructure in Iran’s east for many years. Initially put in hold in 1984 it was revived in 2002 with Indian help. And the financing and engineering assistance from India is not limited to the port. India, wishing to bypass Pakistan, is also cooperating on a highway system that leads from the port into Afghanistan as well as a planned railroad to Afghanistan. Iranian officials state that they wish to have Bandar Abbas remain as the port for Russian and European trade and have Chabahar become the port for trade with Afghanistan and Central Asia. Iran already has good relations with everybody along the route leading north (including the local “warlords”) into Tajikistan. And significantly, it is in Tajikistan where Iran has already been financing several transport projects including the Anzob tunnel. And luckily for the Iranians, the U.S. constructed a bridge over the Amu Darya that fits in nicely with the Chabahar to Khojent route.
    Prospects for economic integration of Central Asia with the South
    For energy and mineral resources to be sent south from Central Asia a much more expensive transport infrastructure will be required than what is being built at the moment. Another limitation is the lack of a business friendly environment in most Central Asian states. And consumer goods are already entering Central Asia from Russia and China. What more is there a demand for? Furthermore, many Central Asian leaders are obsessed over local issues and haven’t been overly enthusiastic about regional integration (with Uzbekistan being the worst offender).
    What is a long-term prospect is Central Asia being a transport route from the ports to Xinjiang, Russia and Kazakhstan, all of them important markets. The routes to Gwadar and Chabahar cut off thousands of kilometers for certain trade routes.
    Strategic considerations
    Any transportation or military problems in the Straits of Malacca, the Straits of Hormuz, the Suez or anywhere along Asia’s southern coastline will further boost the importance of Central Asia as a transport and trade corridor. Beyond Pakistan and Iran, both China and India are seeking closer relations with Afghanistan and Central Asia. The planned transport and trade routes will have the obvious effect of building solid ties. Iran’s considerations are boosting trade, having secure borders, and avoiding “encirclement” by American proxies (no matter how much a figment of the Iranian government’s imagination). As for Pakistan, the governments there has hoped for better relations with Central Asia. However, their Afghanistan policy always got in the way. Now they hope to move away from that era.
    Conclusion
    The countries of Central Asia will likely benefit from both Chabahar and Gwadar. Diversifying its import and export routes is a logical economic and political step. Although one should not exaggerate the economic benefits to be reaped. As for the competition between the two ports, it will not be a “winner take all” outcome but rather one port earning the greater share of trade. And the “winner” in this respect will likely be Chabahar, at least in the short term. Iran is more stable than Pakistan, it has better relations with Afghanistan and the Central Asian states, and unlike the Gwadar route its proposed route goes through relatively stable parts of Afghanistan. As long as Iran avoids outright conflict with the United States or any sort of domestic turmoil it should come out of this competition with an advantage.
     
  4. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    5,895
    Likes Received:
    496
    Location:
    Abbottabad,Bannu
    Gwadar cooperation opens up Central Asia to global marketplace

    Gwadar cooperation opens up Central Asia to global marketplace


    Global Times | 2012-10-16 20:25:04
    By Aftab Hussain

    [​IMG]

    There have been hot discussions since Pakistan decided in September to provide operational control of the Gwadar port to China.

    The decision has been welcomed by many in Pakistan and is seen as a giant step in further consolidating Pakistan-China friendship. With its critical strategic location, the port provides the shortest possible sea route to the Central Asian republics and connects the Middle East with China, Central Asia and Russia.In 2007, operational control of the port was given to Singaporean company PSA International for 40 years, but the firm could not fulfill the commitments made, and decided to pull out.

    Much of the world's oil moves through the Strait of Hormuz, close to Gwadar, giving it the potential to be turned into an energy hub.China is heavily dependent on oil from the Gulf to fuel its expending economy and production. At present, the oil it receives passes through a very long route. It starts in the Strait of Malacca from where it reaches China's east coast and is transported overland to western China. This transportation is very costly. Gwadar provides a cheaper and shorter route.

    Nevertheless, China is not the only beneficiary of the Gwadar port. Landlocked Central Asian states are also set to make significant gains. Tajikistan can transport its gas to the world, once the pipeline is extended to the port. For Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan, the shortest possible route to the sea is through Gwadar.And Afghanistan's gateway to the world has always been through Pakistan. For a stable economy, this land locked country needs an opening to the sea, and Gwadar has the potential to provide that. Pakistan and China will not get the sole benefits of the development of Gwadar. Instead, the whole region will prosper.

    The two countries intend to build a railway link between Xinjiang and Gwadar. This will not only enhance the mobility of goods, but also cut the cost of transportation by road.There is an existing railway link between Pakistan, Iran and Turkey, and the three countries have decided to extend this railway link to Europe.If China agrees, the railway link from Xinjiang to Gwadar can be connected to the current Iran, Pakistan and Turkey rail link.

    This will provide Chinese goods with another route to European markets.The development of the port is a cause of concerns for many countries in the region, especially India. The port and a naval base at such an important strategic location enhance the importance of Pakistan. India is already trying to increase its influence in the Arabian Sea and does not want any competitor. It feels threatened by the development of the port.

    New Delhi is pressing hard to increase its influence in Afghanistan and the rest of Central Asia, but once the port is developed, all these states will be dependent on Pakistan and will no longer remain under Indian influence.The closer Pakistani-Chinese strategic partnership is already seen by India and the US as a threat to their interests in the region.

    The US is increasing its influence in the Asia-Pacific region, especially in the Strait of Malacca, and is empowering India to stand against China. The superpower has concluded many defense and strategic agreements with countries in the region. This is seen by defense analysts as an attempt to contain China and block its mobility in the Southeast Asian region.

    According to Pakistan Economy Watch, a "willingness on the part of Beijing to take control of the port will encourage investment and professional handling of port operations. It will bring two countries closer and promote social and economic development." Gwadar remains the only safe and feasible option which provides China an opportunity to counties with its economical activities to the external world.

    The author is a researcher at Islamabad Policy Research Institute. [email protected]


    Gwadar cooperation opens up Central Asia to global marketplace - Globaltimes.cn
     
  5. datguy79

    datguy79 Regular Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    702
    Likes Received:
    937
    Location:
    Canada
    Chabahar

    There are already agreements in place and 50000 acres of land have been given for Afghan traders. The infrastructure is already there and much better than in Pakistan. Besides, anyone could simply transport their cargo directly to Mashad and have it in Herat in an hour's time, with minimal risk. Also, Afghans are well aware that Pakistan will close the route whenever they please and more of them are doing business through Bandar Abbas already. There is also an active and growing lobby within the Chamber of Commerce and Industry which refuses to do business with Pakistan on principle after witnessing some of their acts, such as not allowing Afghan school books entry via Karachi.
     
    devgupt and Apollyon like this.
  6. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    20,305
    Likes Received:
    8,270
    Location:
    011
    Neither.
    Gwadar is in the restive Baloch region.
    Chabahar is in Iran.
     
  7. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    5,895
    Likes Received:
    496
    Location:
    Abbottabad,Bannu
    Sad part is no infra around the gwadar is non existing.
    work started again after many years bt still very low
    a leader with good vision like Imran khan will take advantage of this strategic position

    If alone it provides a short route to china.(china comsumption alone is more than the whole central asia combined)

    Gwadar can become more busy than chahbhar port.
    CHina+few central asian countries like tajiskistan
     
  8. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    5,895
    Likes Received:
    496
    Location:
    Abbottabad,Bannu
    Indians jumping for Chabahar port is like pakistani jumping for J-20

    it wont be of any interest to india apart for just supplying to afghanistan
    while for Pakistan it is in our land and would be many time more busy than chabahar port can ever imagine of

    CHina+Central asia combined
     
  9. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    5,895
    Likes Received:
    496
    Location:
    Abbottabad,Bannu
    Some latest development

    Zardari offers Gwadar port facilities to Tajikistan | The Nation
     
  10. farhan_9909

    farhan_9909 Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2012
    Messages:
    5,895
    Likes Received:
    496
    Location:
    Abbottabad,Bannu
    Gwadar port even alone supply to china is enough
    though Tajiskistan is almost confirmed.because as even supply to china will go through chitral(which is less than 100km far from chitral)



    And chabahar port all the revenue and value will go to iran..india has no value in chabahar port.they are just wasting there time
    a rough comparision
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Apollyon

    Apollyon Führer Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    2,600
    Likes Received:
    2,380
    Location:
    आर्यावर्त
    [​IMG]
     
    Tolaha likes this.
  12. shaman

    shaman New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2016
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    [​IMG] dear indans lets do unbased comparison
    central asia ,iran that want trade wth india will use chabahar , but f central asia , iran want trade with arabs countries ,china and pakstan they will use gawdar port because arabs not want trade witth these countries on chabahar.
    chna alone trade and oil supply is greater than india+iran+central asia(may be a little less) and china mostly will use gawdar.
    gawadar is world 3rd deepest port while chahbahar is normal sea port.
    gawadr will has direct land and rial connection with china , with central asia and than russia via kabul-mazarsharf kazakstan and vis quetta-kandahar-herat-tukamanistan ., with turkey via iran whiile chabahr to india has no direct land or rail or any gas pipeline connection.
    the way through iran to central asia is full of mountains which will be costly and dangrous to trucks and tankers , the way to central asia via pakistan s mountainous 4 afghanistan part and also in pak if one use western route gawadr-quetta-peshawar-kabul while pak pak is smooth 4 eastern route gawadar-karachi-lahore-peshawar-kabul.
    in baluchistan security issue s concern but at the current time separatists are in week position due to operation and now they are ready for dialogue but if the security problems remains than pak aready planned to bypass balchistan route and connect the gawadar with karachi via coastal highway and gawadar -rathudero motorway which t will connect with rest of pakistan and the region.

    there will be a navel base at the gawadar (may be pak-china combined) 4 its security and don not think that iran will allow india 4 navel base in chabahar as ran has strong relatons with pak and with china too.

    in case of pak india war or any tough situation pakistan from gawadar navel base can stop indian ships not only from chabahar but from the rest middle east bcz it too close to both areas.

    the red at the bottom on the arabian sea side is coastal highway .which by pass baluchistan
    see in pictures peshawar and quetta these are gate to afghanistan and rest of central asia
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
  13. saty

    saty Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    1,112
    Likes Received:
    1,296
    [​IMG]

    Just for rough calculations.... We spent 70% (import) money on O-I-L.So generally we are interested to open a new port near Chabahar at oil price are trading at around 110-120$. Now oil prices are fallen to 26$ and still declining .No thanks we don't need any trading port in ME so many Africa and South America countries are lined-up to sell cheap oil.

    2.Who care about terror infected Balochistan Gwadar...... just by one phone-call India can make diwali every week in Baluchistan (baloch themselves are bombing :p).
     
    Screambowl likes this.
  14. shaman

    shaman New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2016
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    yes

    yes you people can do diwali only in baluchistan but we can do anywhere in india this time will be calkta , banglore or channi. how much you can do does to stop cpec but do not go to USA for weeping like on mumb , pathankhot , and delhe parliment
     
  15. SADAKHUSH

    SADAKHUSH Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,802
    Likes Received:
    758
    Location:
    Winterland


    The video is for you to learn the reality of your country. If you do not take any lessons from this video than nobody can save your nation from its ultimate demise. The denial and fabrication of facts are part of Pakistan's establishment DNA.

    https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwje8ILw2onLAhUE9x4KHbO_DBoQFgg-MAY&url=http://www.thenews.com.pk/print/67245-gwadar-vs-chabahar&usg=AFQjCNEzm8PlAmXbwx8GSsZK4dlcsqHEeQ&sig2=bq_ZoCGDliR2DAOrWfdRMg

    https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...oIAtN2dGb_v2tV72Q&sig2=JEV02lnHKFmDe3x6GnU0sQ
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2016
  16. saty

    saty Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    1,112
    Likes Received:
    1,296
    FYI we make sure that some beheading of Army men and school kids ... i think u know it. We go and degrade pakistan in every international forum with PROOF'S.

    Choice is yours if you still love your kids :p
     
  17. shaman

    shaman New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2016
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    when i just compare chabahar and gawdar than you proudly said that indian can do diwal on one call in baluchistan , but when i said that we can than you came to give teaching and lessons , first see to your attitude and decide first that you are a peace messenger or the[/QUOTE]
     
  18. saty

    saty Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    1,112
    Likes Received:
    1,296
    I think your peace messenger is poppet. j/k

    FYI Biggest democracy in the world USA also talks ''he is doing wars for peace'' and he is the messenger of peace.


    My idea of peace is simple India must stop covert war and become a Israel/USA.......Means ''peace inside dead bodies outside''. :p
     
  19. shaman

    shaman New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2016
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0

    Very nice video
    1.first about Muhammad bin Qasim as it is history of 1300 years before so one can not find absolute truth as different people have different opinion about him, pakistan show the opinion in pak favor and the india show opinion which is in india favor.
    2. Islam and hinduism are different paths as you can see it.
    3.the congress implemented their 1936 era govt as a hindu govt means that they did decision in hindu favor like the ban of cow slaughter while its is not prohibited for muslims. the anthem they imposed was also totally in the favor of hndu.
    4. ghaznave diminished sumunat was not the ISLAMI act but his own act for the wealth as in it was gold. and almost pakistani see this act negative and you can see ths impression in video.
    5.Hindu are against Muslims is not totally right but hundred percent right for BJP , RSS ,BJRANG DIL, VSHVU HINDU. SHIV SEENA and like other similar case in pakistan too like HAFEEZ SAEED AND JAMAT E ISLAMI.

    still now even a single country does not teach the real history of nation and their leader in govt booksfor example
    1.are you know about the real second face of mahthma gandhi that he was racist for 20 years he spent in africa .and was against the black people rights.
    2.are you that quid azam first voice was not pakistan but muslims political rights(muslim league was formed on this base ) but after due hindu leaders(not a general hindu) he changed his slogan.
    3. read the gujrat text books where they teach to children that with a gujrat a state wHich is called ISLAMABD and they dont know about pakistan at early stage
    4. read the french history about the world war 2 where they induced a number of lies about its army role .
    5.can England teach a real history n their govt text books about the colonization. or any country.
    6.can you know that India remain not tolerate for most period (its an indian historian words to bbc ) but govt and general people teach you that its remained tolerate because govt want know toleration.

    some truth are become hates like
    1. hindu torture muslims like gujrat , calkuta muzarfargarh, and babare mosque like inccident.
    similary indian say
    1.muslims torture hindu like in some areas of sindh .

    govt history every where not absolute truth neigher of any one like in this video the 2 man you can see that they totally against the history and i know both of them want secularism in Pakistan not even like India but like Europe.
    we know that in our history there are few draw backs but as the human grow their mentality grow similarly as nation grows and become stable than they teach real history. you can find similarly draw backs in your history too if you read andhate roy (more like her librals )books and see her speeches.

    for your real i share a video you can find like thousands click on the pictures [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2016
  20. shaman

    shaman New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2016
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    if
    if in your opinion USA is peace keeper than it is enough for you to stop talking about peace.
    when you have like USA/ISRAEL concept that peace inside india and dead bodies outside (Pakistan) than you should has right of peace from Pakistan.
     
  21. saty

    saty Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    Messages:
    1,112
    Likes Received:
    1,296
    What! what are you talking from past 300 years only west(colonial powers) is dictating peace.... from1991 only USA is dictating peace.

    Do you know why ? they have big big guns (technology), Muslims and tech. :lol::lol:

    So wait&see India is developing rapidly we dictate peace(like Isr/US) in pakistan.
     

Share This Page