Censorship in India over Islamic Cartoons

Discussion in 'Members Corner' started by Calanen, Jul 10, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Calanen

    Calanen Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    12
    « Monday Morning Musings
    123456789 »
    I Received a Take Down Notice For Mohammed Cartoons
    July 6, 2009 – 7:18 pm by kimsch

    On Friday, June 26, 2009 I received a take down notice from a police group in Mumbai, India. I reproduce the email in full here:

    O.W.No.1680/Sr.PI/CCIC/09
    Office of the
    Sr. Inspector of Police
    Cyber Crime Investigation Cell
    Crime Branch,CID, Mumbai
    Date :- 26/06/09
    To,
    Website Administator,
    Musing mind.com

    Subject :- Block / delete suspected links about muslim communities.

    Dear Sir,

    This office is enquiring a complaint wherein cartoon articles on alhaa and islamic religious personalities for eg. Mohammed and wife aisha are created and posted. They are making insulting remarks against muslim prophet and other personalities of muslim communities. You are requested to delete/remove block below mentioned suspected and malicious link and articles on your websites.

    Musing Minds[...]/2008/02/jyllands-posten-mohammed.jpg

    Regards,

    (Mukund Pawar)
    Police Inspector
    Cyber Crime Investigation Cell
    Crime Branch, CID, Mumbai.

    This is exactly what I received, with all spelling, grammatical, and capitalization mistakes intact. The only change I made was in the url for the image. Entering it as given in the email was returning a 404 error anyway so I have replaced part of the url with [...].

    The email was sent from officer at cybercellmumbai dot com. That site states that it is the Cyber Crime Investigation Cell, C.I.D., Mumbai.

    The picture that is so offensive is this one:

    jyllands-posten-mohammed

    from this post in February 2008: No Surrender. The image was linked to Human Events’ article Muhammed Cartoon Gallery of 2/2/2006 where all the full size cartoons can be found.

    Needless to say I am not going to take this down. I contacted a few people about it and was advised to report it to the Chilling Effects website, which I did. I was told that perhaps the worst case scenario of not complying with the request would be that I could never travel to India. The other worst case scenario was that I would become the next Salman Rushdie. I really doubt that one since others, far more prominent than I, have published these images as well.

    I do hope I won’t have to go into hiding.

    I’d like to know if anyone else received one of these notices. Please let me know, either in comments or by email to kimsch at this domain.

    Thanks Howie for the link!

    Founding Bloggers linked. Thanks!

    Kyros from Report on Arrakis linked. Thanks!

    Musing Minds Blog Archive I Received a Take Down Notice For Mohammed Cartoons
     
  2.  
  3. I-G

    I-G Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,736
    Likes Received:
    53
    In India there is censorship and its not just the case for Islam only , its applied for all religions .

    Jesus Christ with a beer mug in one hand and a cigarette in the other on the cover page of its June issue of 2008 . the publication of the journal was suspended indefinitely". the magazine stopped publishing, the employees were naturally out of job.
     
  4. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,498
    Likes Received:
    4,679
    the thread posted is from some blog. i suspect; its not genuine. however if its true then i will applaud Mumbai police's efforts to censor that nonsense.
     
  5. Calanen

    Calanen Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    12
    And the Police in India have the authority to censor the whole world, the whole internet?

    It's legit.

    The Jawa Report: Musing Minds Joins "Banned in India Club"

    I also doubt very strongly whether the Mumbai Police are sending emails to jihadi websites telling them to take down cartoons that make fun of Jews.
     
  6. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,831
    Likes Received:
    23
  7. Calanen

    Calanen Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    12
    No that's just a joke, i.e. when anything is a bit controversial the joke is it gets banned in India. And is likely to be banned given that the site is refusing to take down the 'offensive' posts.

    The only thing that happened was that the Mumbai Police told them to take it down, no banning as yet, which I imagine that someone more official than the police would need to do.
     
  8. Calanen

    Calanen Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2009
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    12
    The site known as My Pet Jawa or the Jawa Report, *is* banned in India. As are a number of other sites that deal with Islamic terror. I best not put the link in here, as our Indian members clicking on it may be breaking the law.

    July 19, 2006
    Why The Jawa Report Was Banned in India and Why it Matters

    India has banned a number of websites by domain, but has only singled out 17 websites by name, including this one. Among the American websites all are connected in some way to The Jawa Report.

    Why did India ban this website? And what is the larger meaning of this action?

    The short answer to the first question is that we offended Islamists and India is afraid of its own Muslim citizens. The short answer to the second question is that, sadly, it is increasingly becoming evident that liberty may not be able to exist wherever there is a large population of Muslims.

    What, specifically, did we do to offend Islamists and their supporters in the Muslim world?

    Some time ago a story began to be circulated in the mainstream press that a detainee's Koran had been put in a toilet at Guantanamo Bay. It later turned out that the story was false.

    Nevertheless, the reaction from many in the Muslim world was quite revealing about an alleged 'tiny minority of extremists'. Riots erupted all over the world by people who were offended. Thousands marched, caused property damage, and some were even killed.

    Over what? A story about a book being put in a toilet.

    We can understand why someone might get offended over their holy book being mistreated. We might get offended if someone did the same to a Bible. But anyone who would engage in violence over such an action has a values system that is not only foreign to us, but also one which is not compatible with liberty.

    This reaction, along with the later reaction of many Muslims over cartoons depicting Mohammed, was a clarifying moment for us.

    Islam, as understood by many Muslims, is not a tolerant religion.

    The very definition of tolerance is to allow that which we do not agree with. The moment Muslims demand that their governments punish those who say, write, or depict things that they find offensive, they reveal their intolerance.

    Many people in my experience are intolerant. Intolerance is not a very unique attribute. It is intolerance coupled with threats of violence that makes many Muslims unique in the world. It is also what makes Islam uniquely dangerous among the major religions of the world.

    Not only do these intolerant Muslims wish for offensive speech to stop, but they threaten violence upon any government unwilling to censor.

    So, our reaction to the overreaction in the Muslim world was to make fun of them by making fun of the Koran flushing story. Oddly, making fun of intolerant people is now considered a form of intolerance by many in the world.

    We admit that the humor involved was tasteless. We also admit that we knew that it would offend some. But if you can't legitimately offend people engaging in riots, who advocate criminal penalties for blasphemy, and who wish your destruction, who can you offend?

    While the specific reason for India's attempt to ban us was that we were blasphemous, the more general reason was because it feared its own citizens.

    India has been taken hostage by its sizeable Muslim population. It is afraid of its own citizens. It fears that if they are exposed to that which is religiously offensive, that violence might erupt. That if the government doesn't do something, then they might just have to do something about the government.

    India's banning of this and other websites, then, is completely rational. It is based on the real fear of real people who do real violence. Thus, it is completely understandable.

    While we might understand India's reason for banning our website, we certainly don't condone it.

    Giving in to violent threats is not, in my book, a winning strategy for defeating the very people who are threatening you. Appeasement only works if your goal is appeasement. If your goal is to drag Muslims who have a 7th century mentality about how the world ought to be ordered into the 21st century, then this is no way to do it.

    This is not to say that we don't agree that there might be limits to free speech. Such limits seem legitimate in the context of war, for instance.

    However, when one bans speech because it is religiously offensive, then two freedoms are killed at the same time. A nation cannot truly have freedom of religion if that religion is immune from public criticism. A nation cannot truly have freedom of speech if blasphemy becomes a criminal act.

    Sadly, there is not a single country in the world where Muslims are a majority that criticisms of Islam are legally tolerated. While Muslims proudly proclaim that they 'tolerate' Chrisianity, they do not mean tolerance in the Western sense. They may 'tolerate' Chrisitians worshipping in their own churches, but the minute that a Christian steps out in public he is unable to accomplish the 'Great Commission' of trying to convert the non-believer into a believer.

    Some 'moderate' Muslim countries allow Hindus, Buddhists, and Christians to be converted to whichever religion that they may choose. But once a Muslim, always a Muslim. It is forbidden for any missionary of any faith to try to convert a Muslim.

    Islam is a one-way street.

    India's actions lead us to suspect that it will not just be Islamic states where religious oppression is the norm, but that any country with a sizeable Muslim minority might also be forced, for the sake of domestic tranquility, to ban blasphemy. And we believe that our fears are founded on more than this one case.

    A simple statistical analysis shows that there is a strong inverse correlation between Muslim populations and freedom. What this means is that the more Muslims there are in your country, the more likely it is that your country is repressive. India's actions give us a definite candidate for the causal mechanism underlying the correlation.

    There is some good news, though, in those same statistics. Since Geoge W. Bush has been in office, declaring liberty and democracy the common birthright of humanity, Muslim countries are becoming more free. None has fully reached that goal in our understanding of the term and there are some exceptions to the rule, but as a whole they are moving in the right direction.

    We hope that the movement to liberalize will continue in the Muslim world.

    If Muslim countries are moving in the right direction, liberalizing in ways unimaginable before the Bush administration turned up the heat, it is odd that some non-Muslim countries seem to be moving in the opposite direction while responding to the same pressures.

    If India and other countries hope that by banning a handful of websites, or by condemning speech critical of Islam, that it will appease their Muslim populations, they have greatly miscalculated.

    What offends Islamists and many Muslims is not what we or others say, it is that they are not in power to stop us from saying it.

    The ultimate goal of these people is the creation of a state based on sharia (or Islamic) law. One in which Muslims rule and Christians, Hindus, and Buddhists take a back seat. It is only then, when it is Muslims who do the deciding on what needs to be banned, that they will be happy.

    The real gripe Muslims have in non-Muslim countries is about power. They want it, but don't yet have the numbers to exercise it.

    India, of all countries, should understand this. Both Pakistan and Bangledesh were states founded because Muslims on the Indian subcontinent refused to be ruled by any other than a Muslim master. Several wars have been fought between India and her Muslim neighbors because of this. Today, a low-level war continues in Indian Kashmir because Muslims refuse to be governed by any country in which they are not a majority. Even when that country is headed by a Muslim, which is the case in India right now, sizeable numbers of Muslims demand more.

    India is said to be a secular state with aspirations of greatness. Its actions today show that it is neither completely secular nor ready for its proper place on the world stage.

    This is all doubly sad because India is also a natural ally against the cancer of Islamic fundamentalism. It is on the frontline in the war against the global jihadis.

    It is India, not the U.S., which shares its bloody borders with the world of Islam. Mumbai should be a reminder to India who its real friends are, and who are its enemies.

    The move towards religious censorship by India is a mistake. A nation does not cement its alliances by adopting the values of its enemies and rejecting those of nations willing to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with it against forces which plan its destruction.

    Although we, who have always supported India in the past, feel that this action was a slap in the face, we continue to wish her continued progress and prosperity. A wealthy India is an India better able to stay off the attacks of the barbarians at her gates. Those barbarians are our common enemies.

    India may have turned its back on us, but we will not be so petty as to completely turn our backs on her.

    UPDATE: Apparently, the ban is still in effect.
     
  9. Sridhar

    Sridhar House keeper Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    3,473
    Likes Received:
    1,015
    I am also able to browse it. The news item seems to be 3 years old.
     
  10. EnlightenedMonk

    EnlightenedMonk Member of The Month JULY 2009 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2009
    Messages:
    3,831
    Likes Received:
    23
    Well, I agree with you that it's an appalling precedent set by the police trying to police everybody in the whole world...

    The internet is a free medium and they ought to stay away from it and stop trying to stop people from saying the things they want to, be they of any religion... If somebody finds those sites offensive, they just ought to stay away from those sites...

    If our police starts doing this, I don't personally see any difference between us and the Arabs (for whom such suppression is a daily job)... ours is a free society, and it ought to continue to be free...

    I remember a report I read today where it said that India compares to the west (almost) when it comes to political and social freedoms, such acts will only erode that freedom and are certainly not conducive to freedom...
     
  11. I-G

    I-G Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,736
    Likes Received:
    53
    What you are really trying to do Calanen ?

    Majority of Indian Muslims are peaceful and this western freedom of speech is nothing but to create problems inside India which would further be used by Pakistan for its purpose to radicalise .

    It would be better for India to be cautious with these religious hate which is spreaded in the name of Freedom of Speech and Freedom of religion .

    Try to even put the link for urs article .
     
  12. I-G

    I-G Tihar Jail Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2009
    Messages:
    2,736
    Likes Received:
    53
    Seriously i do think that things are the same in here as it was in Indian defence forum .


    Its easier to insult Islam ,Muslims and Quran and when Muslims reacts its labelled Terrorism .. It hasnt been 1 month for me to join in here but i m seeing that the atmosphere is still the same . So sad.

    Yesterday in ---------- , one Educated Israeli Moron , that Quran and all holy books are written by power lusting bastard and Musta the mod was trying to save his ass and was giving him free pass ..
     
  13. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,274
    Likes Received:
    11,287
    Location:
    BANGalore
    Thread closed
     
  14. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    20,305
    Likes Received:
    8,270
    Location:
    011
    This forum has nothing to do with Indian defence forum.

    Probably the problem is with your outlook. I have not seen anything such as what you are insinuating, please PM one of the mods.

    please don't bring stuff from other forums here.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page