'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitters

Discussion in 'China' started by Ray, Sep 24, 2014.

  1. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The Uighurs have been fighting for Islamic causes for long as in Afghanistan too.

    Therefore, to find that they might be fighting for ISIS would not be unfounded, unusual or surprising.

    Yet, for China, it is serious issues since China's basic political philosophy is domestic 'peace, harmony and stability'.

    What is dangerous for China is that these Chinese Muslims would become high indoctrinated and even suicidal for the cause. And when they return, the Chinese Muslims may do a TTP on China and that will be real serious an issue for China to handle.

    The Chinese approach towards handling errant minorities is totally flawed and cockeyed since they are bent on emulating their historical ways of Sinicisation to wipe out the roots, culture, traditions, customs, language, religion et al of people who are the minorities in China's New Frontiers of Xinjiang and Tibet. Xijiang means New Frontier.

    In the modern world, Sinicisation may work but at a huge cost. What makes the situation worse is that there is a reawakening of the Islamic grandeur and that is permeating to the otherwise downtrodden Muslims of China, and it is a fire that seems unquenchable. This reawakening churn is most disturbing for the world, and more so, China, since it is not willing to accommodate any thoughts or ideas beyond the Communist mindset catalysed by a virulent and arrogant Han cultural superiority that makes a via media impossible.

    Unless China eases its arrogant Han ways and allow the people some leeway, China shall burn.

    And there are many waiting in the wings to encourage the same.
     
    AVERAGE INDIAN and Dhairya Yadav like this.
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  3. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    Re: 'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitte

    Its not just Muslims......they have been destroying Catholic churches and arresting Catholics. Read the article below printed on July 5th, 2014 in The Guardian UK

    China's Christians fear new persecution after latest wave of church demolitions
    Once a hub of Christianity, worshippers in Wenzhou fear their faith is facing its biggest threat since the Cultural Revolution

    When we reached Sanjiang, in Zhejiang province, an elderly woman was angrily telling the pastor how at the end of April police dispersed members of her congregation and neighbouring ones who had come to protect their new Protestant church from being bulldozed. Several pastors were arrested and many detained, including those from the Sanjiang church – one of the officially sanctioned (and government controlled) "patriotic" churches. Many supporters were also arrested, including pastors from the underground house church movement. One, who asked to be referred to only as W, escaped the police raid by hiding in a nearby warehouse.

    For years, during her evening walks, the woman had watched the construction work taking place on the massive church, which was just a few hundred metres along the main road from her house. When we were there in May, flashing lights warned us of the police roadblock that had closed off access to the church weeks ago, after the Chinese government ordered it to be pulled down. "They want to remove every trace," said W. The old woman added: "During the Cultural Revolution they burned Bibles, but they didn't remove the crosses." The old church survived the Cultural Revolution, but in such a dilapidated state that it was converted into a mat-weaving factory.

    The town of Sanjiang lies on a flat strip of land opposite the city of Wenzhou, where the Ou river broadens before pouring its mass of grey water into the South China Sea, 350km south of Shanghai. The township has been earmarked for a new business district alongside the market gardens, so the local government encouraged a plan for a church worthy of its entrepreneurial ambitions. About 15% of Wenzhou prefecture's 9 million inhabitants are Christian.

    Wenzhou has a history of its inhabitants migrating to Europe in the last century. It has been neglected by the Chinese government in recent years. Nevertheless, since the economic reforms, the city has been celebrated as the Chinese capital of private enterprise and Christianity, a mutually advantageous relationship that has given rise to it becoming known as China's "Jerusalem". In the urban sprawl between sea, river and mountain, red crosses dot the skyline, marking – mostly Protestant – places of worship. The city boasts 1,500 churches in every possible architectural form, from elongated white buildings bearing the Chinese character that means love to squat grey brick ones to massive edifices in fake freestone with domes and colonnades.

    Cao Nanlai, a Chinese anthropologist, published a book, Constructing China's Jerusalem, about the town's particular social dynamics, with its Christian bosses devoted to both conquering new markets and converting their workers.

    The budget for the church in Sanjiang was close to $5m. After nine years of dealing with bureaucracy, raising funds and building work, the massive structure rose from the ground with a 60-metre high tower, a 30-metre long transept and a 50-metre long nave bordered by pilasters and arches. It resembled a European gothic cathedral. An annexe served as a home for the elderly. The cross was mounted on 8 August 2013.

    In early 2014, church demolitions were reported in several towns in Zhejiang province, Shanghai's rich hinterland. Many crosses deemed too obtrusive were forcibly taken down. Early in April, a Catholic church in a rural county of Wenzhou was demolished and the cross on a Protestant church destroyed. A dozen other churches received ultimatums to pull down buildings or crosses in a campaign against "illegal structures", launched in Zhejiang in 2013. However, Christians in Wenzhou observed that the campaign only targeted churches.

    Orders were obeyed in some places, but Sanjiang resisted. "We knew that even if we removed the cross it wouldn't stop there, and therefore we had to stand firm," said W. Although the surface area of the building had exceeded the authorised size, the Sanjiang church administration was confident because its "model church" had received local government approval. "Finally, a compromise was reached when the authorities agreed only to knock down the top two floors of the annexe. But they didn't keep their word," said one evangelical minister from Wenzhou, who asked to be referred to as "Peace".

    On 26 April, 1,000 people, many from neighbouring congregations, came to pray in front of the church in the hope of preventing its destruction. The following day, some 40 church leaders identified as having influence on their congregations were arrested, including official cadres and members of the house church movement. Pastor Peace spent 20 hours in police custody. The riot police intervened at 4am on 28 April, and by 8.30pm the massive church was reduced to rubble.

    A pastor in Beijing who monitors the persecution of Christians said: "By making a clean sweep of Sanjiang, the government wants to set an example and show that nothing will stop it." Six other churches or their adjoining buildings were earmarked for demolition in Wenzhou in May. One Protestant church was converted into a "cultural auditorium". In the weeks that followed, the crosses on 15 churches in the Wenzhou region were destroyed and removed by crane.

    According to the American NGO China Aid, since the beginning of the year 60 churches in Zhejiang province have received notice that either their crosses or their buildings must be demolished – more than 40 of these are in China's "Jerusalem".

    Christians in Wenzhou have not seen such sustained persecution since the Cultural Revolution. According to pastor Joy, a member of the same evangelical network as pastor Peace: "The local government and the churches have always got along well here." Only the heads of the free churches dare to speak out – anonymously of course – because they know that their churches are under threat. The "official" pastors have been forbidden to speak out. The fear now is that the government will turn its attention to the house churches.

    China's government-approved churches, such as the one in Sanjiang, have not been targeted in this way before. The officially authorised Protestant Three-Self Patriotic Movement, and the Chinese Catholic Patriotic Association, are organised in such a way as to cloister Chinese Christians from foreign influence. This necessarily gives rise to compromises. For instance, the Three-Self Patriotic Movement encompasses all Protestant denominations in a single doctrine.

    Chinese believers have always been able to adapt, and some frequent the official churches as well as the free ones. The clergy also compromise – for example, there are "official" bishops who obtain secret benedictions from the Vatican. In fact, the patriotic churches, be they Catholic or Protestant, have been encouraged by the government to absorb the Christian explosion in China as much as possible. In addition to the official 24 million Protestants and 6 million Catholics, there are reportedly tens of millions of "clandestine Christians" in the country today.

    In Sanjiang, people weren't blaming the Wenzhou authorities. They believe that the orders came from Xia Baolong, the Communist party chief and former governor of Zhejiang province. "It comes from much higher up, Wenzhou is just a testing ground for a widespread offensive against Christian influence," said one pastor, citing internal sources. Xia was Xi Jinping's deputy from 2003 to 2007, before the latter became the country's president.

    Xi, a leading promoter of China's economic renaissance, incarnates an unashamed patriotism in which neo-Maoism and neo-Confucianism coexist – so long as they contribute to assuring the Communist party's supremacy and promoting its sacred heritage. "The number of Christians has grown to such an extent that there are now more Christians in China than party members and that scares them," said pastor Joy. "But Christians still have a negative image in China where there is a history of persecution. All that has played a part."

    For the Beijing pastor, this anti-Christian campaign is part of a stated objective by the new leadership to promote Chinese cultural traditions such as Confucianism and Buddhism. It is no coincidence that much media attention was devoted to Xi's visit to Confucius's birthplace in February. On that occasion, according to the Chinese news agency Xinhua, Xi called for the propagation of a nationwide "ethical doctrine" with "fundamental socialist values" based on "traditional Chinese culture". According to pastor Joy, among themselves party members often use the pejorative expression yang jiao to designate Christianity. It translates as "foreign teaching".

    This article appeared in Guardian Weekly, which incorporates material from Le Monde
     
  4. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Re: 'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitte

    China is actually doing it right. If anything, we should learn from the Chinese on how to put anti nationals in their place! The only problem with their strategy is their help to pakis. Otherwise, and exemplary job so far
     
    Sylex21, rock127 and sesha_maruthi27 like this.
  5. Poseidon

    Poseidon Regular Member

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    Re: 'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitte

    ^^ The Chinese has achieved nothing in terms of weakening the rebel groups.
     
  6. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: 'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitte

    an UK law is said to have taken effect to revoke citizenship of those who join ISIS or other foreign terrorism outlets. China shall adopt the same.

    don't let such tross get back. leave them with Ab Ghraib or Guantanamo Bay, where they'd receive humanitarian treatments and full respect for their religion. Inshallah :D

    Sent from my 5910 using Tapatalk 2
     
  7. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: 'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitte

    Having had the experience of such types of environment, one can safely say that brute power cannot dwindled down insurgency or terrorism.

    It requires a sociological, psychological, religious, political approach.

    Military and Police power is merely a precursor in making teh environment secure for the processes mentioned to be applied.
     
  8. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    Re: 'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitte

    Really......you think sentencing an Uyghur academic like Ilham Tothi who was only asking for more autonomy for the Uyghurs to life imprisonment is the way to go.

    if that were the case in India - anyone in India who disagrees with national policy is in danger of imprisonment.
    This guy was professor who was not even advocating separating from China, just asking that the Uyghurs be given more control.
     
  9. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    Re: 'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitte

    The Chinese will do anything they can to take advantage of the Western fear of Islamic terror by equating the Uyghur movement to ISIS and whatever whacko Islamist terror groups.

    They do this, because they know that if they can falsely align the Uyghur separatist movement with Islamist terror - the the world will look away while they do everything to wipe out the culture, religion, and even the Uyghur race if possible. The Uyghur movement is only now resorting to acts of violence......they tried asking the CCP nicely, and they have been pushed so far back that some are just striking out on their own.
     
  10. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Re: 'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitte

    Not only UK but EU and oz and nz too have same law
     
  11. AVERAGE INDIAN

    AVERAGE INDIAN EXORCIST Senior Member

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    Re: 'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitte

    The most dangerous enemy in China is fundamentalism. South Xinjiang, esp. countryside, is in serious poverty and low education condition, for its most desert geographical environment and closed neighborhood, and come to be source of fundamentalism influenced by Pakistan. Nearly all attacks were planned by attackers from south Xinjiang.

    When Xi Jinping promises more jobs for Uyghurs, what that really looks like is that there will be more Mandarin language education so that graduates can get jobs at Han Chinese-run companies where they will be barred from wearing headscarves or fasting during Ramadan.

    Chinese city bans anyone with Islamic clothing or a 'big beard' from buses | Daily Mail Online

    Chinese city bans Islamic beards, headwear and clothing on buses | World news | The Guardian

    The unfortunate reality is that the Chinese Communist Party will never be able to fully integrate their minority groups. Especially the Uyghurs, who are already meet with suspicion, and who themselves feel persecuted.

    Especially considering the new measures announced by Xi Jinping will, among other things, put civillian, Han Chinese security patrols on the streets in Xinjiang. Unfortunately, I see this only getting worse.
     
  12. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: 'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitte

    It is true that there are fundamentalists amongst the Uighurs. as has been exhibited in Afghanistan.

    However, they were a handful then.

    Now, with the coercion and clampdown on practising Islam and its rites, to include observing Ramazan, the rebellion is growing and there is no doubt that foreign Islamic nations are encouraging them to be more Islamic and being ready to combat all forces that prevent them from being, what they call 'pious' Muslims.

    China is in for a long haul, more so if they do not allow them to be Muslims and follow their religious ways.
     
  13. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: 'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitte

    Americans are pretty good at playing the good-terrorist bad-terrorist game. In the OP it's mentioned after the 22 Uyghur militants fighting in Afghanistan were entertained in Guantanamo for 5-7 years, instead of being repatriated to China, they were released and sent to Bermuda and Palau:D

    So much abt their double speak.

    Heck now they must be laughing all the way and enjoying their orgy on the beach with 72 virgins free of charge.

    Sent from my 5910 using Tapatalk 2
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: 'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitte

    That is right that the US does play good and bad terrorists.

    However, there releasing the Uighurs could be a method in their madness.

    The terrorist could have been indoctrinated and programmed to serve US interests.

    I would not be surprised.
     
  15. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Re: 'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitte

    Has Indian spinelessness had a better effect in integrating Kashmiri seperatists?

    FFS, we dont even have a law yet to outlaw ISIS supporters- covert or overt!
     
  16. s002wjh

    s002wjh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: 'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitte

    what a load of crap. US have been involve in middle east for years, which is not even in our own home turf, what do we call 911 or other incident, terroism!! china has over 50 ethnic group, Uyghur is but one of them, none of other resort to killing innocence/bombing etc. for you to say islamic who want cause americans harm as terrorist and Uyghur who cause chinese civilian harm are justified is purely hypocrite/BS. just because you don't like the government doesn't give you the right to bombing/run over innocent
     
  17. sydsnyper

    sydsnyper Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: 'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitte

    We should send teesta to china, with a 'goods once sold will not be returned' clause. She can then marry a proud uyighur and teach her lessons in secularism to CCP.
     
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: 'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitte

    What exactly do you mean by 'integrating'?

    What is your expertise on Kashmir?

    Do visit Kashmir's history and realise that no administration, be the the Afghans, Chaks, Dogras or whosoever, has been able to 'integrate' Kashmirs.

    Kashmiris, as a people, have always been suspicious of the administration.

    Do read history. Ideal would be Lawrence's 'The Valley of Kashmir'. That is a neutral version.
     
  19. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    Re: 'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitte

    At reading Teesta and the proposal to send her to China, my ball* dropped but then I realised that you mean Setalwad.. Ha Ha Ha ... not a bad proposal. But the indian courts would not leave her for pocketing crores of rehabilation money ...
     
  20. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Re: 'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitte

    So the answer to "my question" is no :lol:

    Good. Thats why we cant preach chinese one what they should do. Atleast, the chinese will be able to integrate Xinjiang fully. Same cant be said about Kashmir and India so long as Kashmir remain a islamic majority state
     
  21. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: 'Capture' of Chinese national fighting with ISIS gives China jitte

    Could you enumerate good reasons why the Chinese should listen to Indian preaching, as you suggest?

    I am sure you are aware that the Chinese psychology is way different from the Indian one.

    Now on to your second issue on Kashmir's religion and its impact on integration.

    Are you aware that Mizoram and Nagaland are Christian majority States? Are you suggesting that these States are not integrated because of the religious majority?

    The hype over Kashmir and because of Nehru's error, Pakistan has made a religious issue of Kashmir and gullible Indians bought it and encouraged it with pseudo secularist Goodt Two Shoes attitudinal approach.

    Srinagar, Sopore and Baramullah or their nearabout is not Kashmir alone.

    Have you noticed how the skyline of these areas have changed suddenly in the near past? Money from the ISI. He would pays the piper calls the tune.

    Have you been to the remote areas of the Muslim majority Valley or in Punch?

    There is no indication to lead one to believe that they are not integrated.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2014

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