Capt Saurabh Kalia's torture by Pak army still not 'war crime'

Discussion in 'Indian Army' started by Oracle, Jun 9, 2010.

  1. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    CHANDIGARH: On June 9, 1999, NK Kalia had received the body of his son – Captain Saurabh Kalia – with evidence of torture by the Pakistan Army. Eleven years later, 62-year-old Kalia is still fighting for justice – he wants the act to be declared a war crime by the UN.

    However, numerous letters to the Centre have failed to move the government to pursue the matter with the world body. Five other soldiers were tortured and killed along with Capt Kalia. "I am ashamed of being an Indian. The country has spineless leaders,"said Kalia.

    "In order to declare a war crime, the ministry of defence needs to write to the ministry of external affairs, which then takes up the matter with the UN Human Rights Council. The council then refers the matter to the General Assembly, which can declare war crime. It then goes to the international court of justice. It is the ministry of external affairs that did not follow up the case with the UN," says Colonel (retd) SK Aggarwal, former judge advocate general (JAG) officer.

    Pakistan army had captured Captain Saurabh Kalia of 4 Jat Regiment and five other soldiers on May 15, 1999 from Kaksar area of Kargil sector.

    They were kept in captivity for over 22 days and subjected to unprecedented torture as evident from their bodies. The bodies were handed over to India on June 9,1999.

    Moved by the torture meted out to his son by Pakistan army, Kalia launched a struggle to declare the act a war crime. Kalia wrote series of letter to then Minister for External Affairs Jaswant Singh.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...y-still-not-war-crime/articleshow/6026040.cms
     
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  3. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    kargil was not war.it was operation against insurgents.When even UPA govt. has said that kargil was bjp's war then why care?if it would ve been a war then india would ve fought cross border.kargil is just like siachin or 20 year proxy insugency.
     
  4. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    It wasn't a war, but also we weren't fighting only insurgents but regular Pakistani Infantry, Arty and Air-force..
     
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  5. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    Kunal very few people would buy your idea. I buy it because at the end of the day, it was Indians who died, and it was Indians who captured strategic points.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2010
  6. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    If so fine if our country is left nothing more than party and politics and nothing more sure that's the only way to survive...
    all i know and i felt during 1999 is dead INDIANS which were slathered coming back home to their wifes children, and the leader who call them self Indians saying its somebody else war not ours..
    Gr8 democracy we have..

    Comment like these make every uniform men in shame..
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2010
  7. Anshu Attri

    Anshu Attri Senior Member Senior Member

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    1st hero of kargil......

    [​IMG]

    typed copy of death certificate......

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    Kargil was always a war though it was not a full scale war . Anyone who died in that war is a martyr Its dirty politics of UPA.
    what angers us most is that some of UPA leaders are shameless enough to claim it as NDA war .
    what a dirty breed of politicians we have got. They should all have been sent to kargil and we would have hailed those idiots as heros after their killing by pakistani army.
     
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  9. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    It was typical barbarity by a country that idolizes its own barbaric invaders. We can never be too careful against this enemy with no regard for humanity or morality.
     
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  10. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    Thank God I am not in the Indian Army. I would have severely damaged India and IA's reputation. For every single body sent to us in this barbaric way,I would have got inside their land and done the same to 10 of theirs.
     
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  11. maomao

    maomao Veteran Hunter of Maleecha Senior Member

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    This is how we treated pakistani POWs:


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3FJP4i0JM8

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuqINvYALTM&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDotO6eM9xU&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFSVsCDMTZw

    I seriously think we should kill all the pakistani POWs and terrorists after extracting all the info, these barbarian pakistanis don't deserve any mercy (their own countrymen don't show mercy to them and treat them accordingly) then why shud we treat these barbarians well. I know some members will start acting holier than thou, but fact of the matter is, if you don't respond to the invaders (from the west) in the way they treat you, certainly they will take your mercy and enlightenment as a sign of weakness and will wreck havoc (Common Sense, History, Basic Strategy......)!

    I can't imagine what Lt. Saurabh Kalia and others must have gone through, this has been pakistani mercenary (dollar hungry) army's culture throughout history, I think these innocent looking POWs are as vicious as others who killed millions in East pakistan, then happily surrendered and were given 5 star treatment by our stupid govt.; to get medals from defunct organizations such as UN etc. I personally would have mutilated these pakistanis in the video, and set an example for every pakistani kid thinking of becoming a jihadi/mujahieen against India, pakistanis are not humans stop treating this Failed Beggar Terrorist Shameless State as an equal, trust me if I would have been in command I would have executed these pakistanis and sent them back home in the worst fashion possible!

    P.S: I dont give damn about some self-proclaimed elite members (actually diseased by centuries of defeatist mentality) suggesting- we can't behave like them or What will be the difference between Blah Blah Blah Blah BS.
     
  12. maomao

    maomao Veteran Hunter of Maleecha Senior Member

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    Ever heard of Stockholm Syndrome, pakistan and pakistanis have a mix of this Syndrome with Dementia and Delusion; resulting in complete schizophrenia, barbarism and state of denial, which we can observe in the case of almost every pakistani!
     
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  13. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    Funy that you mention this. I have used the same logic with some Pakistanis earlier!
     
  14. AJSINGH

    AJSINGH Senior Member Senior Member

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    only the dead have seen the end of war .
     
  15. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    Since this topic has been broached, I think there ought to be an objective reassessment of the perspective.

    First, the torture of this young soldier was a horrible, ghastly, cowardly and inhuman act by an unscrupulous enemy in a mendacious operation (where they weren't even willing to identify themselves).

    Having said that I don't think all the histrionics on the Indian side are warranted based on the general standard of appreciation for human life, or rather the sheer disregard for human life in the Indian consciousness itself.

    Let's start by how the Indian armed forces in the year 1999 used their precious soldiers and officers in a US civil war era line attacks against an enemy entrenched on the peaks. Let's not then forget the coffin scandal which ensued when carrying the bodies of said soldiers. It was clear that the reason for the pathetic state of affairs was on account of mass corruption and an archaic military doctrine that was centered around human attrition superiority* (so to speak). It is also worthwhile to see the level of brutality surrounding the Indian armed forces itself in conflict zones, where extrajudicial arrests, torture, killing and other forms of heavy handed violence are all commonplace. (*It is interesting to note the alarming rate of decline in officer recruitment and retention since the Kargil war due to the loss of confidence in the military establishment)

    It is very, very easy to get all hyped up on select news pieces pandered by a sub standard sensationalist media, which seems to be a common Indian pass time. Unfortunately without a deep societal understanding of the core issue and the inability to put it in an appropriate context, the meaning of the tragedy gets lost in the paradoxical storm (a standard Indian phenomenon). This is why we see a citizenry get all riled up over the tragedy of this young man while remaining unable and far to apathetic to root out violence, torture and all other forms of inhuman behavior even from its own civilian society (which still sees honor killings on a regular basis).

    Point being, unless there's a general upliftment of human standards in India itself and a better handling of matters by it's military, her people will never have the moral high ground to demand justice for the tragic cases like cap. Saurabh Kalia.

    Lastly, Stockholm Syndrom is one where a captive becomes infatuated with and dependent upon the captor. I don't think it addresses the Pakistani situation in this case.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2010
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  16. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    The Stockholm syndrome analogy is not for this case. Far too many Pakistanis consider the barbarians who perpetrated genocide, rapes and slavery on their own forefathers as heroes. They think that just by converting they have become a part of those invaders and many of them claim false invader roots.

    This analogy fits them to a "T".
     
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  17. Bad kid

    Bad kid New Member

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    Kindly can u tell us where the invaders came frm?wat their ethnicity was and by tht time if Most of Pakistani Punjab was converted? also can u google when the conversions started? i think it was far before anyone invaded any place.
     
  18. Vinod2070

    Vinod2070 मध्यस्थ Stars and Ambassadors

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    Surprising that you ask me!

    The original invader was Mohammed Bin Qasim (an Arab who invaded Sindh). He is a hero for you Pakistanis. Just ask any Sidhi what he did there.

    They informed me that any good Sindhi knows that "in several cities in ancient Sindh, Muhammad-bin-Qasim beheaded every male over the age of eighteen and that he sent tens of thousands of Sindhi women to the harems of the Abbassid Dynasty."

    http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/104770

    Same goes for invaders like Gazani, Ghauri, Timur, Babur and others. They killed the forefathers of today's Pakistanis, raped their mothers, enslaves their ancestors and today's Pakistanis fake to be from Bukhara or Persia or Arabia or Turkish to be considered "Asharaf".
     
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  19. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    A letter from Dr N K Kalia, proud father of Capt Saurabh Kalia

    Dear friends, some of you will remember the conversation I had a few days back with the proud parents of Captain Saurabh Kalia, Kargil’s first war hero – who has been all but forgotten by the “official” media and the government machinery. I sent an email to Dr Kalia after the call requesting details of his efforts to get justice and offering whatever little help I can..In response, I received this very moving email written by him. I sought his permission to reproduce it on the blog. He kindly agreed…The email is touching & very inspiring. I wish it is read and shared by a large number of people – especially youngsters – who may not be aware of the sad history of this case. Without further ado (emphasis added)…

    *** Email from Dr N K Kalia, proud father of Capt Saurabh Kalia ***

    Dear Shantanu Ji, Heartiest aashirvaad. Many grateful thanks for your phone-call & mail.

    I often state that losing one Saurabh, though physically only, we got thousands Saurabhs all over the globe. They never let us feel alone even for a moment. The love, respect, honour showered on us by in-numerable persons in last over twelve years is overwhelming. You too are our Saurabh. Over 1.55 lac emails and more than 42,000 hand written letters apart from countless persons visiting or calling from India or abroad vouch for that. Certainly, we would have to take more births to repay all that... for full article � A letter from Dr N K Kalia, proud father of Capt Saurabh Kalia . || Satyameva Jayate ||

    Visit here :-
    cross post-
    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...s/4823-capt-saurabh-kalia-appeal-tribute.html
    rediff.com: Kargil's First Hero

    Mates keep this thread alive, Capt. Kalia is still waiting for justice, Congress govt. is still silent in this matter. :(
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2012
  20. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    self delete
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2012
  21. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    add to that 5 years of NDA. That was the time it was all fresh.
     

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