Capacity of OFB's

Ray

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@Kunal,

That is a general statement.

Which companies provide the parts as mentioned by you or the INSAS?

From what I know the only smokeless ammunition IOF produces is CARTRIDGE SA 12 BORE 70MM "ASTRAM"

The requirement for SVD rounds do not warrant a costly assembly line. It is for sniper rifles.

Have you anything to say about the slippages and shortages of arty and armr amn?

Check this from an above post.

 

Kunal Biswas

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Sir, The companies which manufacture 1B1 parts are various in numbers, like >

http://ofbindia.gov.in/rti/vendorList/Rifle Factory Ishapur.html

Their are more than 100 Indian companies who are actively involve in supplying INSAS 1B1 Parts and spares ..

=================

Sir, I can say about less regarding availability of Indian made rounds for Arty and Armour, But i know this that Indian rounds ( AAA & SAM , 81 & 120 Mortar, 105mm ammunition ) are mostly in good quality, I cannot say in depth about it as i am not into it very much ..

The below table only shows that OFB needs expansion and needs better management ..


@Kunal,

That is a general statement.

Which companies provide the parts as mentioned by you or the INSAS?

From what I know the only smokeless ammunition IOF produces is CARTRIDGE SA 12 BORE 70MM "ASTRAM"

Have you anything to say about the slippages and shortages of arty and armr amn?

Check this from an above post.

 
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pmaitra

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Ishapore RF received the latest CNC Machines around 2003-2004. They were the top of the line stuff. However the machine tool manufacturer had reported horrible working conditions and a lack of willingness by the workers to work on the new CNC machines.
The allegation of lack of willingness of the workers is untrue. The CNC machines are in use and apprentices were regularly trained in the use of these machines since at least 2007.

I am interested to know the name of the machine tool manufacturer. AFAIK, the machine tool manufacturer would not be allowed inside the premises during working hours for long enough to come to any conclusion. If at all they are allowed inside, which I highly doubt, it would be for demo purposes only.
 
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pmaitra

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I am sure you do not want private companies to go insolvent !
So, I take it that you agree that private companies are primarily motivated by profit.

What you are saying happens with all companies and all countries. In other countries when the industry starts making one particular thing commercially in bulk the government agencies swith to something else or just close down unlike India where private industry is killed for the sake of PSU..
Private industries are killed for the sake of PSUs? Are you stating this in the context of defence production? Yes, we had License Raj, but two decades after liberalization, how are we doing in our aviation sector?

For example why should ordinance factories exist to make textiles and shoes, shoe laces, kit bags, trampoline. jute sacks ... in rality ..no they are not making but buying from market and forcing or passing it on the Armed Forces; that is what they call tendering and outsourcing which actually is acting like a middleman or agent. It is something like BEML not dealing with OEM but a middleman company.
I agree with you on this point.

The result :

Armed Forces do not get quality material..
they are made to pay double profit. or double commission.
there is no accountability with the supplier.
The end user suffers in all respect ..
Now, that you mentioned this, Tatra comes to mind. I don't know how to address these issues.
 

sob

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The allegation of lack of willingness of the workers is untrue. The CNC machines are in use and apprentices were regularly trained in the use of these machines since at least 2007.

I am interested to know the name of the machine tool manufacturer. AFAIK, the machine tool manufacturer would not be allowed inside the premises during working hours for long enough to come to any conclusion. If at all they are allowed inside, which I highly doubt, it would be for demo purposes only.
I am talking about 2003-2004. My service engineer was there inside for quite a few visits, as some repairs had to be done at site. This was done both at VFJ and Ishapore Rifle Factory.
I spoke to the fellow last night and understand situation is only slightly better.
 

Bhadra

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1. Shortage of ammunition


Note :- War wastage reserve (WWR) is calculated at one days expenditure in war at intense rate (I) or normal rate which further is equivalent to second lines or less than that.



http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/capacity-of-ofbs.67917/page-3

In disregard of the War Wastage Reserve scales of 40 (I) days, based on which

Annual Provisioning of ammunition was carried out by DGOS, indent for

procurement of ammunition by AHQ was placed on the basis of ‘Bottom Line’

or ‘Minimum Acceptable Risk Level’ (MARL) requirements which averaged

to 20 (I) days. As a result, the policy for the size of national stockpile was not

implemented by the agencies responsible, citing the reasons of budgetary

constraints, and inadequate production capacity with OFB. Stocking of

ammunition even at MARL was not ensured, as availability of ammunition as

on March 2013 was below the MARL in respect of 125 out of a total of 170

types of ammunition (74 per cent). We found that availability has been


dwindling over the years as types of critical ammunition (available for less

than 10 days (I)) had increased from 15 per cent in March 2009 to 50 per cent

in March 2013. The percentage of critical ammunition in High calibre ranged
up to 84 per cent during the five years period of audit. The critical shortages


impacted the operational preparedness and training regimen of the Army.
 

Bhadra

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Non fructification of procurement orders placed on OFB


OFB is the main source for supply of ammunition to the Indian Army. In order

to build up ammunition stock level up to MARL and to provide enough lead

time to OFB for procurement of raw material and streamlining the production,

Ministry of Defence (Ministry) placed a five year Roll on Indent on OFB in

January 2010. Even though the ammunition requirements covered under Roll

on Indent had been worked out in consultation with OFB and the

corresponding annual budgetary requirements accepted, in principle, by the

Ministry at the time of approval of the Roll on Indent, the projection of the

requirement of fund by OFB was much lesser vis-à-vis the targets fixed. It was


therefore, a foregone conclusion that the OFB would fail to supply the targeted

quantity. Despite the acceptance of targets for supply of ammunition covered

under the first Roll on Indent, the OFB failed to supply the targeted quantity,

with shortfalls ranging up to 73 per cent of the total types of ammunition
 

Bhadra

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http://www.saiindia.gov.in/english/...rformance/2015/Defence/Report_19/19of2015.pdf
Deficiencies in Quality Control and Quality Assurance


systems

During manufacturing process, the role of DGQA is to carry out Final

Acceptance inspection for which limited tests on sampling basis are carried

out by SQAE. The concerned Ordnance Factories are required to carry out 100

per cent checks for the quality of stores being manufactured by them, which

include check of input material, inter-stage and final product. Ineffective

quality controls by the Ordnance Factories led to rejections of finished

products at Quality Assurance stage. QA was returning cases for rectification

(RFR) which was not in its mandate. Even the products accepted by QA were


not found up to the mark and due to persistent quality problems, ammunition


worth `1,618 crore was lying as rejected in depots. Ammunition worth `814


crore was declared unserviceable within shelf life by the depots due to poor


quality.


------------------------------------------------------------

That much for quality control organisation some of whom float here in the forum writing nasty posts and posing as knowledgeable people.
 

Bhadra

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What is Ammunition Management in the Army ?

Ammunition in Army is held in three echelons viz. service ammunition,

reserves and training ammunition, as shown in Chart-1 below. Service

ammunition is held as First line ammunition by the units, whereas Reserve

constitutes Second line and War Wastage Reserve (WWR). Training

ammunition is authorized to each unit to maintain proficiency of the troops

and formations.

Chart No. 1





 

Bhadra

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First Line ammunition


It is the Service ammunition, which is authorized at given scales to a unit on

its War/Peace Establishment (WE/PE) for the weapons authorized. It is held

with respective units. It is the scale of ammunition required for two intense

engagements.

Second Line ammunition

It is the immediate reserve with a formation, authorized at given scales for all

units in the formation. It is the scale of ammunition required for one intense


engagement. It is held in formation ammunition dumps under formation


arrangement.

War Wastage Reserve (WWR) ammunition

It is the reserve intended to meet the requirements for the expected duration of

operations or until the indigenous production can get into its stride or other

arrangements is made for procurement of ammunition. WWR level is shown in

“days” and indicates the quantum of stock to be maintained to cater for the

duration of war. WWR forms the basis for working out the requirements of

ammunition during the provisioning review.

In April 1979 the Government approved authorization of WWR on the

concept of 30 days of intense period and another 30 days at the Normal rate.

This authorization was reviewed and Ministry revised the WWR rates in

October 2010 to 40 days of intense period i.e. 40 (I). The revision was done by


referring WWR rates of April 1979 and taking one day intense rate being

equivalent to three days normal rate


Training Ammunition


Training ammunition is authorized to each unit to maintain proficiency of the

troops and formations to ensure that Army is in a fit state of war.
 

Bhadra

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Ordnance Factories (OFs) functioning under the control of OFB manufacture

ammunition to cater the need of the Army. Ordnance Factories, 39 in number,

are classified under five products-based Operating Groups.

Ammunition and Explosives (A&E) Group of Factories is engaged in production of ammunition

for small arms, anti-aircraft, anti-tank and artillery guns, mortars, rockets,

mines, demolition stores, missiles, pyrotechnics as well as propellants and

explosives through a network of 10 ordnance factories .



Operating Groups and their major principal items of production:-


(i) Material & Component Division-Cartridge Cases, Brass Cups, Barrel Forgings etc.

(ii) Weapon, Vehicle & Equipment Division-Shell Body, Barrel, Ordnance, Mortar etc.

(iii) Ammunition & Explosives Division-Ammunition, Explosives, Filling of

Cartridge, Shell, Bomb etc.

(iv) Armoured Vehicles Unit-Assembly of Tanks, Optical equipments

(v) Ordnance Equipment Group-Clothing, Parachutes and miscellaneous items.

15Ordnance Factory Chanda (OFCh), Ordnance Factory Badmal (OFBL), Ordnance Factory

Khamaria (OFK), Ordnance Factory Dehu Road (OFDR), Ammunition Factory Kirkee

(AFK), Ordnance Factory Varangaon (OFV), Ordnance Factory Bhandara (OFBA),

Ordnance Factory Itarsi (OFI) Cordite Factory Aruvankadu (CFA) and High Explosive

Factory Kirkee (HEF).


 

sob

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@Bhadra if we have shortages to the tune of 73% then I would say disband the OFBs and send the concerned people to Siberian Gulags.
 

Bhadra

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@Bhadra if we have shortages to the tune of 73% then I would say disband the OFBs and send the concerned people to Siberian Gulags.
This report of the CAG is an eye-opener and very educative > Any one who is interests if Defence affaiars specially the Service Officers must read it . It would them wise as to how they would be let down. It also thorws light how Army also mismanages this important aspect :

All my posts are from this reprt :
http://www.saiindia.gov.in/english/...rformance/2015/Defence/Report_19/19of2015.pdf
 
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