Can't link India's case for NSG membership with that of Pakistan: Russia

Discussion in 'International Politics' started by Villager, Dec 7, 2017 at 3:10 AM.

  1. Villager

    Villager Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    481
    Likes Received:
    412
    HIGHLIGHTS
    • India's application cannot be "interlinked" with that of Pakistan, Russia affirmed.
    • This is probably the first time that a top Russian diplomat has publicly drawn attention to the futility of juxtaposing the 2 cases.
    • Earlier this year, foreign minister Sushma Swaraj had said that India had approached Russia to convince China to drop its opposition to India’s membership.
    NEW DELHI: Even as China continues to stall India's Nuclear Suppliers Group(NSG) membership, Russia has come out strongly in support of India saying that India's application cannot be "interlinked" with that of Pakistan and that Moscow is discussing the issue with Beijing at different levels. China has favoured a criteria-based approach for expansion of the 48-member group, which controls international nuclear commerce, instead of one based on merit, in what India sees an attempt to draw a false equivalence between India's case and Pakistan's.

    The issue again came up for discussion on Wednesday as Russia's deputy foreign minister Sergey Ryabkov met foreign secretary S Jaishankar. "We recognise that at the moment there is no unanimity on Pakistan's application and that the same cannot be interlinked with India's," said Ryabkov, after his meeting with Jaishankar.

    This is probably the first time that a top Russian diplomat has publicly drawn attention to the futility of juxtaposing the 2 cases. "We know about the difficulties involved but unlike some other countries, who only speak, we are making practical efforts...we are discussing it with China at different levels,'' he added. Earlier this year, foreign minister Sushma Swaraj had said that India had approached Russia to convince China to drop its opposition to India's membership.

    That Moscow doesn't expect China to relent though without a concerted effort from all member states was evident from Ryabkov's remark that he found the politicisation of the issue unfortunate and that other nations needed to play a more positive role for India's membership. He didn't name these nations though. Significantly, as he backed India's case for membership of all export control regimes, Ryabkov said that he expected India to join The Wassenaar Arrangement as early as Thursday. The 41-nation group, of which China is not a member, deals with export controls for conventional arms and dual-use goods and technologies.

    While Ryabkov admitted that Russia was looking to build ties with Pakistan, a country he described as taking great interest in multilateral forums, he said Russia had no ``hidden agenda'' in its dealings with Islamabad. ``I can assure you that Russia's ties with no country in the world will come at the expense of its relationship with India,'' said Ryabkov.

    On the issue of North Korea, which too was discussed between the two countries, Ryabkov reiterated Russia's position that there was no alternative to a political "track" for resolving the issues and that all parties needed to show restraint. "We don't believe there is place for more sanctions on North Korea," said Ryabkov, adding that there were commonalities in the position taken by both Russia and India. As Swaraj said recently, India believes that some channels of communication with Pyongyang should remain open.

    https://m.timesofindia.com/india/ca...-pakistan-russia/amp_articleshow/61951007.cms
     
  2.  
  3. F-14B

    F-14B #iamPUROHIT Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Messages:
    1,749
    Likes Received:
    3,206
    Location:
    Most ancient Kingdom of cochin
    Russia bitch slaps Pakistan yet again and the morons in Islamabad are still masturbating on making a Pakistan China Russia alliance
     
    spikey360, TheSeeker, SREEKAR and 2 others like this.
  4. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2009
    Messages:
    33,131
    Likes Received:
    19,250
    Location:
    EST, USA
    We already have a thread on foreign policy. Why open a new thread?
     
    Neo likes this.
  5. WolfPack86

    WolfPack86 Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2015
    Messages:
    3,656
    Likes Received:
    2,802
    Russia is India's best friend and ally. We should improve our relation with Russia.
     
    spikey360 likes this.
  6. Villager

    Villager Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    481
    Likes Received:
    412
    You mean Indo-Russian relation thread?
     
  7. IndiaRising

    IndiaRising Regular Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2014
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    1,139
    the only way you get entry into the elite global clubs is by increasing your dominance and moving forward without worrying about the "consequences" attached. nobody respects a scared puppy. you have to be top dog.
     
    Willy2, spikey360 and roma like this.
  8. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2015
    Messages:
    9,252
    Likes Received:
    11,526
    Location:
    21°N 78°E / 21°N 78°E
    I don't guess even a comment is needed, what's like an alliance there?
    It's Pakistan who's continuously been bumping and trying to hyphenate itself. Seriously, from nuclear tests to NSG or UNSC, what India has to do with Pakistan?

    It's nothing else but attention seeking in other's issues.
     
  9. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2009
    Messages:
    4,486
    Likes Received:
    954
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Defence

    China says no change in its stand on India's membership to NSG
    By PTI | Dec 07, 2017
    • China today asserted its opposition to India's membership bid to the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG), saying there is no change in its stand and efforts were on to forge "consensus" among the 48-member elite nuclear club about the admission of new members.

      "China's position on this remains unchanged," Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang told media here responding to Russian deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov's remarks in New Delhi yesterday that Moscow was speaking to China for India's membership into the NSG.

      "China supports the NSG to follow the principle of consensus through consultation through transparent and fair intergovernmental process to deal with this issue," Geng said.

      China, a key member of the NSG, has been stridently opposing India's bid primarily on the grounds that New Delhi is not a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Its opposition has made India's entry into the group difficult as the NSG works on the principle of consensus.

      China's repeated stonewalling of India's membership bid in the NSG has become a major stumbling block in bilateral relations.

      After India's application for entry into the elite group which controls nuclear trade, Pakistan, China's all-weather ally, too had applied with the tacit backing of Beijing.

      Pakistan's application came despite serious allegation of proliferation of nuclear technology by its scientist A Q Khan.Ryabkov yesterday said that Russia is unwavering in its support to India's membership of international nuclear control regimes and Moscow was speaking to China in this regard.

      Asked for his reaction to Ryabkov's comments, Geng said all the members of the NSG supported the two-step approach-to find non-discriminatory solution that applies to all non-NPT countries then on that basis discuss the application of the non-NPT counties.

      He said the focus is on some non-NPT countries who hope to join the group in the capacity of nuclear weapons free countries.

      "At the same time they will not sign the Comprehensive Safeguard Agreement (CSA) of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA)" which is mandatory under the NPT, he said.

      "In this circumstance if we agree for the above-mentioned applications, it will have two consequences, that is to recognise the nuclear weapons status of the Non-NPT countries. Secondly, it will cause other than nuclear weapons free countries to follow suit not to sign CSA with IAEA," he said.

      "This will subvert the NPT and whole international non- proliferation regime," he added.

      China suggested that the NSG can pool the wisdom and further explore on this issue and find a solution which can be accepted by all relevant parties and can uphold the international non-proliferation regime with NPT as a cornerstone.

      "On this we will further discuss application of non-contracting parties," Geng said.

      Asked whether the issue will figure in the Russia, India, China (RIC) Foreign Ministers' meeting to be held in Delhi on December 11, Geng said that the meeting will focus on pragmatic cooperation. At the same time they will exchange views on international issues of common concern.


     
  10. Flame Thrower

    Flame Thrower Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2016
    Messages:
    946
    Likes Received:
    1,637
    @Neo don't worry Soon China will be forced to accept India into NSG.

    India gets one more step closer to NSG.

    India got its membership in Multilateral Export Control Regime Wassenaar Agreement

    https://m.timesofindia.com/india/in...t-control-regime/amp_articleshow/61974050.cms

    This agreement also helps us in acquiring critical tech and helps us build strong case to NSG.

    Funny part is China is not a member of this agreement.

    Out of four agreements in Multilateral Export Control Regime (MECR), we are a members of two agreements i.e. MTCR and WA

    We are not part of NSG and Australian Agreement(regarding chem & bio weapons).

    Joining WA has increased our Non-proliferation credentials for joining NSG.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017 at 12:31 PM
    Willy2, TheSeeker and aditya10r like this.
  11. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2010
    Messages:
    4,185
    Likes Received:
    6,110
    Location:
    India
    To be honest all these are just optics. Unless NSG finds a way to circumvent Cheeni stance, India will unlikely to find a place as long as unanimity is a requirement.

    What can happen is the NSG be made increasingly less important for India by increasing bilateral agreements with key players and suppliers. In a way we already do so with US, Russia, France and Japan, with fuels upply agreements with Australia and Kazhakhastan.
     
    Willy2, TheSeeker, Johny_Baba and 4 others like this.
  12. Villager

    Villager Regular Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2016
    Messages:
    481
    Likes Received:
    412
    India enters non-proliferation regime Wassenaar Arrangement, slap on China for NSG stand

    HIGHLIGHTS
    • India was on Thursday admitted as the 42nd member of the Wassenaar Arrangement
    • This is a global grouping that regulates transfer and access to conventional weapons and dual-use technologies
    • The membership would further strengthen India's case for NSG membership
    NEW DELHI: After its entry into the Missile Technology Control Regime in June 2016, India was on Thursday admitted as the 42nd member of the Wassenaar Arrangement - a global grouping that regulates transfer and access to conventional weapons and dual-use technologies.

    In the coming months, India expects to be included in the Australia Group as well, leaving the Nuclear Suppliers Group(NSG) - where it faces stiff opposition from China - as the last non-proliferation regime that India expects to enter.

    "India's membership (in WassenaarArrangement) is expected to facilitate high technology tie-ups with Indian industry and ease access to high tech items for our defence and space programmes... The membership would create the grounds for realignment of India in the export control policy framework or other WA members, including eligibility for certain licensing exemptions," the ministry of external affairs spokesperson said on Friday.

    India still has to apply for licences for high-tech and dual-use exports, but from now, that process is expected to get easier. This is the second of four non-proliferation regimes India has joined after the India-US nuclear deal was cleared. The important aspect of three out of the four regimes is that China is not a member of them except for the NSG.

    The formal application to Wassenaar was made by India in 2016, although the work to align Indian rules and munitions lists to Wassenaar rules began in 2014.

    There is some overly optimistic belief in domestic circles that New Delhi could leverage its membership to MTCR and Wassenaar Arrangement for a deal on China's membership to these groups. China has applied for membership to MTCR but has been kept out because of its strong history of proliferation. But there is a larger narrative building up. In MTCR and Wassenaar, India's membership was cleared by 35 and 41 countries respectively. Most of these countries are also members in the NSG. Therefore, India's credentials or its non-NPT status did not come in the way in both of these groupings. This also makes China's argument about a criteria-based membership application process increasingly specious.

    Bit by bit, India's accession to these non-proliferation regimes is making it clearer that China's political opposition is the stumbling block. South Block sources said India hopes that next year's NSG plenary will see more countries accepting India's point of view.

    India's membership to MTCR opened doors for its space programme and its ability to source high-end missile systems and technologies as well as surveillance drones. The Wassenaar membership is important for India, giving it a leg up as a responsible player in the world of dual-use goods and technologies and transfer of conventional arms. It gives India an important voice in shaping global response to regional and global "security developments, advances in technology and market trends..." as the chairman of the Wassenaar Arrangement, Jean-Louis Falconi said.

    Outside these groups India would have trouble accessing a number of these technologies, because India has been for over 40 years the target of dual-use technology denial regimes. Even after the India-US deal, India hasn't actually been able to break through these regimes.

    Membership is expected to declare India kosher, as it aligns its internal systems to these global regimes.
     
    Johny_Baba and aditya10r like this.
  13. vinuzap

    vinuzap Regular Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2016
    Messages:
    479
    Likes Received:
    619
    MTCR and now Wassenaar Arrangement,: in both these organisation india is member not china and a rogue proliferator like china can't dictate for long in NSG

     
    Willy2, F-14B and aditya10r like this.
  14. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2010
    Messages:
    4,185
    Likes Received:
    6,110
    Location:
    India
    China does not have anything to lose. They are openly hostile to us and they have declared so. They'll continue to oppose us at UNSC and at NSG. While we are unlikely to let them into MTCR unless of course a pro-Cheeni government comes to power.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017 at 6:07 PM
  15. Rahul Prakash

    Rahul Prakash Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    195
    I don't understand why people here are so happy.


    It is more to restrict India to sell other countries restricted mal like IRran, Vietnam and others. India technology has beaten sanction in many ways and they asking us to join them after their primary purpose was deny India technology is another way to restrict such technology to rest of the world. India should make its own allies and natural alliances instead of being part of these restriction regimes which we do not need anyways.

    India can release hundred of satellites, and go to Mars on our first try have a satellite last more than many years, we have AHWR being built and made PFBR that too commercial scale that west has not been able to do, We have a great pharma industry, and we graduate 2.8 million Science , technology, Engineering, and mathematics students and year. So many it is greater than USA, French, Germany, Japan, combined. Why we want to be part of these restriction regimes that were primary meant to deny us technology is something of question as these regimes are to restrict trade to other countries.

    Our experience in joining MTCR has not resulted in any genuine benefits except for Russia share some long range technology. We ourselves could have done so ourselves, but the weak slave mentality that desires not to be first, or recognize the great capability of our people of our nations.

    It is symbolic too,as a country that wants to be first should go its own path or join with countries that want to be first.but instead we want to join USA even though it will want us to be its slave instead of playing a double game like Pakistan.

    I swear the equivalence btw India and China is like that of India and pak = not real.
     
  16. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2010
    Messages:
    4,185
    Likes Received:
    6,110
    Location:
    India
    Wassenar is a mechanism to discuss if the technology deemed to be "dual use" is at a risk of finding its way to "rogue" states. The members agree to consult the forum before signing ToT agreements with a non-member.

    All that India will gain is they will know if any member (all members are those with technology worth transferring) is planning to transfer any sensitive tech to Napakis.
     
    Willy2 and Rahul Prakash like this.
  17. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    21,479
    Likes Received:
    8,421
    Chinese stand on a international level has demonstrated what a joke of a nation they really are. I wonder how these commie rejects even got their positions in these organizations?
     
  18. Rahul Prakash

    Rahul Prakash Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    195
    China does not have anything to lose.

    China does not need others and it has much more leverage than us realistically.

    Why does China need these regimes exactly.it wants to proliferate to its allies so why would join it.to show every country that they are a good boy.

    China is behaving like how a superpower is to behave.they have not overextended and have applied force when national interest was crucial.they also don't care whatever other s think about them and have indeginized almost everything so that they don't need others.

    If they do want something they steal and learn and finally make it a base for their designs in the future.
     
  19. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    21,479
    Likes Received:
    8,421
    Nice reply China can only act like a superpower . Against India they have no problems, but on an international level they are a third world country.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017 at 6:43 PM
  20. Rahul Prakash

    Rahul Prakash Regular Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2017
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    195
    Who cares what others think.you think people respect USA because of rules or money,tech and military power.

    USA is going down becuz of sjw mentality and loss of global influence relative power in the increasing multipolar world.

    China is gaining influence not through sweet manners but real hard power and already is independent in many technologies.china also inherently cannot have sjw mentality as it is not a democracy and they will not elect an anti national like congress or CPI in India.

    They have done most of their work.i would give them 9 out of 10 while we got 6
     
  21. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2009
    Messages:
    21,479
    Likes Received:
    8,421
    There can only be one top player . And it is not China; no matter what the world is doing nobody can match US military might; this will secure US position indefinetly. Military supremacy has always been a top priority for US and no country comes close to challenging this.
     
    Villager and aditya10r like this.

Share This Page