Can the Rise of ‘New’ Turkey Lead to a ‘New’ Era in India-Turkey Relations?

Discussion in 'Foreign Relations' started by ejazr, Sep 25, 2010.

  1. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Paper by a turkish author who is working with the think tank IDSA
    Mehmet Ozkan
    Turkey and India have undergone an immense social, political and economic transformation since the end of the Cold War. This has also been the case when it comes to their foreign policies. However, Turkey’s truly multidimensional foreign policy came into existence in 2002. Since then Turkey has been actively re-defining its foreign policy preferences in Africa, the Middle East and Asia. Turkey’s Asia policy is no longer based on Pakistan as it was a decade ago. ‘New’ Turkey is deeply interested in developing stronger relations with China, India and other rising Asian powers as part of the diversification of its economy and foreign policy. Turkey-India relations have a huge potential to develop and benefit both sides in coming years as relations at social, political and economic levels are already flourishing. The biggest challenges are, however, to overcome the lack of knowledge about each side and the lack of global dynamics in Turkey-India relations. Both Turkey and India are rising powers but they still cooperate at the global level in a very limited way.

    Full report here
    http://www.idsa.in/system/files/IB_IndiaTurkeyRelations.pdf

    Some interesting parts






     
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  3. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Well being Islamist and being pro-pak are two different things. Turkey-Pakistan relations are more military-military than anything else. This is primarily because they were part of the Cold War alliance. So this has more to do with that Cold war umbrella than anything else.

    When Pakistan and the Saudis and US to a lesser extent were supporting the Taliban in the 90s. Iran, Russia, CIS and Turkey all worked with India to counter that influence and were on the same side.

    Moreover, Turkish people do not have a good view of China because of the oppressive tactics including no freedom to practice religion that the Uighurs have in China. Ofcourse some Pakistanis also are not happy with this but at the governmental level they don't make a peep about it unlike the Turksih govt. that is quite vocal about it. Turkey and the entire world knows that the balance ofpower is shifting east so if China-Turkey relations are not comfortable, it woudl be really sad if India did not take advantage of that.

    More recently, there was a Turkey-India-CIS forum which was basically an economic forum.India-Turkey-CIS forum to focus on trade, JV & investments

    Now, Iran probably has the most politcal Islamist system among muslim countries in the world. And arguably has held the most pro-India stance as well. The bottom line is that all these countries act in a perfectly rational way where they say their geo-political interests lie. The problem with Pakistan is that at times it doesn't act rationally precisely because it keeps bringing in a religious world view instead of its geo-politcal interests.
     
  4. ahmedsid

    ahmedsid Top Gun Senior Member

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    There is a good rapport between the Turkish Army and the Pakistani Army. Pakistan basically enjoys the relationship with the Turkish Army, while its Relationship with the Political Leadership is nothing too great. The Turkish Army Prides itself for being "Secular" Yet when it comes to Pakistan it forgets everything. Well thats just self serving I guess, and they aint that secular. Now that the New Govt will be overriding the Army, I hope to see better Relations with India.
     
  5. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Only recently Turkey was molly coddling with Pak. So that would have not done anything good for the relations with India. Also Turkey is moving away from the west and India is moving closer to the west. India is close to Israel now and Turkey is trying to become the leader of anti Israel block and become a leader of the Islamic world.

    There is a lot of potential for good economic ties between Turkey and India. It depends on how the political angle works out between the two countries.
     
  6. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    Very difficult to trust the turks, much like it is very difficult to trust the Saudis and the Chinese. Anyways these countries can be used to further our economic interests and seek their support on crucial aspects which will help India scale up its profile and if they are ready to do as much, its more than good. Looking at them for anything else would be foolhardy.
     
  7. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    IMO this is the era of forging ties and alliances. The cold war ended the old alliances and it has taken a while before those old alliances have been softened or broken down. I doubt we can expect a pro-India attitude to be equvalent to an anti-Pakistan attitude by countries. Even in the case of the US or EU we can see that they will not follow a purely anti-Pakistan policy, particularly when it comes to the PA and the US. Visit of President Gul to India was also the first visit by any Turkish president which shows that Turkey wants to upgrade ties with India.

    The idea is to see it outside the zero-sum game. For example China is Israel's biggest trade partner after the US. It also imports secrutiy and defence equiment from Israel as well. But that doesn't stop it from being a second biggest trade partner with Turkey as well biggest investor in Iran. The Chinese policy is what we should be following.
     
  8. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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  9. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    The Turks have been building illegal mosques in POK which is internationally disputed area but still they continue building structures taking the permission from rogue separatist government of POK and Pakistani government. To make even a playground, they need to consult both parties and that means us which they don't. I think the new Islamist Turkey is only going to be more Pak-Chinese supportive than India. We might retain our good commercial ties but strategic ties will get worse. Turkey is also moving away from its standard EU and NATO friends and favouring Iran and Syria.

    I think the new Turkey is more of a menace than friend. Pakistan gets another new saviour in the form of aid donor and weapons provider apart from China.
     
  10. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Israel analysts see Turkey radicalizing, becoming 'Iran No. 2'


    TEL AVIV — Israel's defense community has assessed that Turkey was moving toward becoming a radical and nuclear Islamic state.Officials and leading analysts asserted that the government of Prime Minister Recep Erdogan was rapidly dismantling the secular Turkish state. They said Erdogan could turn Turkey into another Iran, a radical Muslim state with nuclear weapons.
    "There could be a deep strategic change," Amos Gilad, a senior Defense Ministry official, said.Officials cited Turkey's referendum that would revise the secular constitution. They said the 26 amendments approved by 58 percent of voters on Sept. 12 would significantly increase the authority of Erdogan's ruling Justice and Development Party while marginalizing Turkey's military.

    Leading officials expressed concern over Erdogan's growing power in Turkey and his success in intimidating the once-powerful Turkish military, Middle East Newsline reported. They said Erdogan could use his referendum victory to expand Turkey's alliance with neighboring Iran and Syria while fomenting another crisis with Israel.

    Turkey has launched plans to build at least two nuclear reactors and produce enriched uranium. But Israeli analysts did not rule out that under Erdogan Turkey could acquire weapons technology under the cover of a civilian nuclear program.

    Erdogan, said to be heavily supported by Saudi Arabia, was expected to further downgrade relations with Israel. One prospect was Turkish sponsorship or support for another flotilla to the Gaza Strip. In May 2010, nine passengers, eight of them Turks, were killed in a bloody Israel Navy interception of a Turkish-sponsored flotilla to the Gaza Strip.

    "If there is not a change in personality, then Turkey will become Iran No. 2," former National Security Council director Uzi Dayan said.
     
  11. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Retired general confesses to burning mosque to fire up public

    [​IMG]
    Retired Gen. Sabri YirmibeÅŸoÄŸlu
    A retired general who has recently been accused of having conducted an assassination attempt on the life of Turkey's eighth president, Turgut Özal, has inadvertently confessed that he ordered the burning of a mosque as part of psychological warfare operations in 1974.In remarks published in the Haber Türk daily yesterday as part of an interview with Gen. Sabri Yirmibeşoğlu, who led the Special War Department in 1971 and also worked to mobilize civilian resistance during Turkey's military intervention on Cyprus in 1974, said: “In Special War, certain acts of sabotage are staged and blamed on the enemy to increase public resistance. We did this on Cyprus; we even burnt down a mosque.” In response to the surprised correspondent's incredulous look the general said, “I am giving an example,” in an attempt to clear things up.

    The retired general is also believed to have wide-ranging information concerning many alleged crimes and activities of behind-the-scene organizations such as JİTEM. He was also implicated in the Sept. 6-7, 1955 pogrom in İstanbul against minorities, which today is widely believed to have been part of a manipulative plan concocted by Ergenekon-like structures. Yirmibeşoğlu has admitted that the Sept. 6-7 events were organized by the Special War Department, documented by journalist Fatih Güllapoğlu in his book “Operation with No Tanks or Arms.” In the book, Yirmibeşoğlu is quoted as saying, “Sept. 6-7 is the work of Special War [department], and it is a spectacular organization.” In the interview with Haber Türk, Yirmibeşoğlu also attempted to clarify this point. He partially denied what was in the book saying, “In 1971 I was assigned as the senior [head] of the Special War Department. At the time, there was actually no department called the Special War Department, there was only the Mobility Investigation Board that was set up for Cyprus.”

    The confession brings to mind the Balyoz (Sledgehammer) coup plot, allegedly drafted by a clique in the military to undermine the government. Dozens of military officers were arrested, although most were later released during the investigation into the Sledgehammer document, which includes plans to bomb the Fatih and Beyazıt mosques and down a Turkish jet over the Aegean to fuel problems with Greece with the ultimate aim of discrediting the government.

    When allegations regarding the Sledgehammer plan first arose after the document was leaked to the press earlier this year, then-Chief of General Staff Gen.İlker Başbuğ dismissed the accusations as nonsense. Başbuğ said a military whose troops are known for shouting “Allah Allah” as they attack the enemy could not possibly think of burning the house of God. However, Yirmibeşoğlu’s revelation shows that this has actually been done before.
     
  12. Tshering22

    Tshering22 Sikkimese Saber Senior Member

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    Well Turkey is showing up all signs of giving up its previous modernist image. AKP's action, unnecessary diplomatic aggression and recent military warm-up with Iran and Russia is sending some signals that don't rule out a radicalization of the otherwise modernist country. From what I gathered talking to Turkish members on multiple forums, Turkish military is angry with the mullaization of AKP's leaders of the social order and therefore wants to overthrow them and bring back an aggressively nationalist-Kemalist regime back.

    A nationalist-Westernized society in Turkey is far more preferable rather than the nasty turn Turkey has recently made. From our POV I think we should ask Turkey to desist building illegal mosques unilaterally in POK with just POK and Pakistani government's permission alone and see what they have to say. Turkey should know that it can either have the cake or eat it and not BOTH.
     
  13. cobra commando

    cobra commando Tharki regiment Veteran Member Senior Member

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