Can someone tell me why exactly are we supporting Palestine?

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

And I guess Palestinians should just sit around sucking their thumbs when Israeli's come building on their lands. Didn't even address my post, and you're the moderator?

And on how to handle fanaticism, Israel could learn from how India handles militant attacks in Kashmir. Do we reply by rolling tanks into their mainland and bombing their civilian houses?

If they had learnt from India, they would have lost whatever they have. They faced two big wars and still live in daily fear of getting annihilated. Not a Israel fan, but barbarians deserve barbarity-simple. India could have solved Kashmir issue if it had kept rolling the tanks in 47 rather than go to UN like a whimpering dog.

If people spend the development money they get to build tunnels and attack civilians, they will get bombed. If they hide militants in hospitals, they will get bombed. Palestinians are no saints and I have no sympathy with them. It is their own matter and I hardly care how Israel takes care of them.

P.S. Being a mod has nothing to do with views. If you did not see connection in my post, it is your fault!!

 

[LETHALFORCE]

So people can say Indians are hypocrites supporting Palestinians and suppressing kashmiris


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bahamut]

So people can say Indians are hypocrites supporting Palestinians and suppressing kashmiris

They are all kind of voices in Indian but it mainly pro Israeli as they help fight terrorist ,give us tech and supporting Palestine does not bring any major gains ,some humanitarian aid with help from Iran ,but like I said official we are that those two are to solve it.

 

[Params7]

If they had learnt from India, they would have lost whatever they have. They faced two big wars and still live in daily fear of getting annihilated. Not a Israel fan, but barbarians deserve barbarity-simple. India could have solved Kashmir issue if it had kept rolling the tanks in 47 rather than go to UN like a whimpering dog.

If people spend the development money they get to build tunnels and attack civilians, they will get bombed. If they hide militants in hospitals, they will get bombed. Palestinians are no saints and I have no sympathy with them. It is their own matter and I hardly care how Israel takes care of them.

P.S. Being a mod has nothing to do with views. If you did not see connection in my post, it is your fault!!

Second time in a row, you have skirted around the illegal settlement grabbing. Israel commits international crimes everyday by pursuing a war of attrition into Palestine with their expansionism but Palestine are the "Barbarians" here. Sound logic chief. Or do you believe since Palestine are born barbarians they deserve genocide and loss of land?

Palestinians fight back with homemade diwali grade bottle rockets at best, and pick up whatever weapon/knife they can - then Israelis go Oy Vei and respond by absolute unjust bombing of children, women and civilian men. And they do it over and over again in a vicious cycle of landgrabs and Palestine retaliation.

I'm sure this map has been linked several times before. I'm sure you've seen it.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/images/FourMaps2.png

If you believe Palestinians should be genocided against and have all their land taken by force, then say so so we can move on.

They faced two big wars and still live in daily fear of getting annihilated.

Palestine poses absolutely no existential threat to Israel. They're maybe a notch above the most backwater villages of Bihar. What are they going to do to Israel? If Israel wants to fight a war it should do right now with Iran before they get nuclear weapons.

India needs to take a neutral stance on Israel-Palestine. Period. And shine more light into the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

 

[Screambowl]

Oil factor and to impress minority in India.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Second time in a row, you have skirted around the illegal settlement grabbing. Israel commits international crimes everyday by pursuing a war of attrition into Palestine with their expansionism but Palestine are the "Barbarians" here. Sound logic chief. Or do you believe since Palestine are born barbarians they deserve genocide and loss of land?

Palestinians fight back with homemade diwali grade bottle rockets at best, and pick up whatever weapon/knife they can - then Israelis go Oy Vei and respond by absolute unjust bombing of children, women and civilian men. And they do it over and over again in a vicious cycle of landgrabs and Palestine retaliation.

I'm sure this map has been linked several times before. I'm sure you've seen it.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/images/FourMaps2.png

If you believe Palestinians should be genocided against and have all their land taken by force, then say so so we can move on.

They faced two big wars and still live in daily fear of getting annihilated.

Palestine poses absolutely no existential threat to Israel. They're maybe a notch above the most backwater villages of Bihar. What are they going to do to Israel? If Israel wants to fight a war it should do right now with Iran before they get nuclear weapons.

India needs to take a neutral stance on Israel-Palestine. Period. And shine more light into the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

No one skirted around the issue. Only you seem to be childish in your response.

Partition was done by Brits and it was history. Palestinians always cried over it, just like Pak cannot give up on Kashmir. They would never accept peace.

Palestinians along with their Ummah brothers tried to kill the new nation but failed. You would not even have shed any tears if Israel was wiped out then. But fact of the matter is- they survived and fought back.

Peace is a two way process and Israel cannot be stupid. Read the manifestos of those ruling Palestine and they clearly state annihilation of Israel. Now whether they hurl Diwali bombs or hand grenades is of little consequence, when you can read their ideology. Both Abrahamic cousins i.e. Jews as well as Mullahs are equally genocidal. And Israel understands it more than you.

As I said, I have no sympathy for any barbarians there. Those who dig tunnels, use their kids as human shields, send their women to stab civilians are as or more barbaric than those who fire rockets from air planes. It is about survival- may the best party win.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

They are all kind of voices in Indian but it mainly pro Israeli as they help fight terrorist ,give us tech and supporting Palestine does not bring any major gains ,some humanitarian aid with help from Iran ,but like I said official we are that those two are to solve it.

When USA or Russia do business with both India and Pakistan we are in an uproar . How is this different? This by the way is an
Official stance by the Indian govt which has a lot of bearing.

 

[VaghaDeva]

The oil sheikhs of Sowdi Arabia must be behind this by using their oil to manipulate politics just like they did with Bosnia, Kosovo ................

 

[HeinzGud]

And I guess Palestinians should just sit around sucking their thumbs when Israeli's come building on their lands. Didn't even address my post, and you're the moderator?

And on how to handle fanaticism, Israel could learn from how India handles militant attacks in Kashmir. Do we reply by rolling tanks into their mainland and bombing their civilian houses?

Palestinians have land in Jordan. They can go there if needed. But of course, Jordan don't take Palestinians so that potential terrorists could be created from the oppressed Palestinians.

 

[garg_bharat]

Palestinian problem is fundamentally explosive population growth. The middle east has too many people compared to fertile land. Food and water are fundamental reasons for violence.

The situation today is even if Israel gives all its land to Palestine, still land is not enough to accommodate Palestinians. There are so many camps in Syria, Lebanon etc.

Israel's problem is that its population is also growing and it needs land.

I guess Israel-Palestinian conflict will only grow and there is no near-term solution.

Indian stand is immaterial. India is not a significant actor in this conflict. Nobody is looking at India to mediate or help.

 

[Params7]

No one skirted around the issue. Only you seem to be childish in your response.

Partition was done by Brits and it was history. Palestinians always cried over it, just like Pak cannot give up on Kashmir. They would never accept peace.

Palestinians along with their Ummah brothers tried to kill the new nation but failed. You would not even have shed any tears if Israel was wiped out then. But fact of the matter is- they survived and fought back.

Peace is a two way process and Israel cannot be stupid. Read the manifestos of those ruling Palestine and they clearly state annihilation of Israel. Now whether they hurl Diwali bombs or hand grenades is of little consequence, when you can read their ideology. Both Abrahamic cousins i.e. Jews as well as Mullahs are equally genocidal. And Israel understands it more than you.

As I said, I have no sympathy for any barbarians there. Those who dig tunnels, use their kids as human shields, send their women to stab civilians are as or more barbaric than those who fire rockets from air planes. It is about survival- may the best party win.

Again - excusing illegal settlements in Israel.

Israel can invade and steal land, Palestinians are bad to resist. Israel was created by Brits and it is going to face existential threat for a long time. But the threat essentially comes from the more developed nations (Iran, Syria, Egypt before it was destabilized). Any uniting force between Shia/Sunnis of Mid-East will pose a significant existential threat to Israel.

But the threat is not coming from Palestine. To subjugate them with apartheid laws is international humanitarian crime, to steal their land and build on it is a crime and I'll be damned if my country pledged support.

As I said, I have no sympathy for any barbarians there. Those who dig tunnels, use their kids as human shields, send their women to stab civilians are as or more barbaric than those who fire rockets from air planes.


This seems to be your only retort to Israel's land grabs. Its not as if IDF has not used white phosphorus, used Palestinian children as human shields, and haven't committed a wider set of atrocities on Palestinians.

It is about survival- may the best party win.

YEAHHHH. Might makes right!!

 

[Params7]

The oil sheikhs of Sowdi Arabia must be behind this by using their oil to manipulate politics just like they did with Bosnia, Kosovo ................

Oil sheikhs are busy waging sectarianism against the Shias. They want to lead a new revolt against Iran. They fund ISIS, their Wahhabist Mosques through Europe preach extremist jihadism and hate.

That's Europe's problems (FBI already monitors such mosques with great scrutiny in USA). Such Mosques and preachers absolutely need to stay away from India. Fortunately most of Indian's muslims relate more with Shia ideology and naturally reject Salafism. But we still need to be careful and keep our friendship with Saudi Arabia at a very, very artificial level.

 

[Navnit Kundu]

Because Jewish culture is rooted in the idea that non jews (goyim) are worth less than dogs and should be killed or enslaved because they were born that way

Glad someone brought this up. We aren't morally beholden to tow the Israeli line on any policy issue out of gratitude for weapons they sell to us, for which we pay the full price. We are a sovereign nation, we do what's best for us. Besides, Jews aren't some otherworldly saints who have descended upon humanity to talk about marshmallows and bunnies. The Jews are no less hostile to Dharmics than other Abrahamics.

This is done with great forethought, not out of some Nehruvian idea of a hipster worldview. Modi was scheduled to visit Israel, making him the first Indian PM, then suddenly they downgraded the level of diplomatic engagement from PM to MEA, now Sushma Swaraj is going. I think this change was a result of some hard thinking by our security cabinet. It is in our interest that Israel remain under some kind of existential threat from other nations, so that India can retain an elevated position of importance in the eyes of Israel. An Israel that is under no pressure has no obligation to play nice with India, and they might as well start blackmailing us with threats of selling weapons technology to Pakistan, like Russia and France does. The fact that Israel remains under siege impedes them from taking any measures that might alienate India. This status quo favors us.

Israel needs India because the constantly looming threat of India keeps Pakistan from forging any meaningful military alliance with Israel's enemy, Turkey. It is this threat that makes Israel less likely to double cross us. If the threat from Turkey didn't exist, Israel would be blackmailing us right now. It is in our interest that the Palestine conflict keeps boiling with no resolution in sight. We encourage both sides (Israel and OPEC) to indulge in a competitive bidding to stay in the good books of India since India is a big strategic buyer for both of them. We maintain an ambiguous stance on Palestine so that both Israel and OPEC keep offering us their respective strategic resources (weapons and oil) at competitive rates in exchange for our diplomatic support for their respective causes in the international forums. If the Palestine conflict is solved, then Israel has nothing to stop it from playing a wider global role and there is a fear that they might start playing the same game that the US plays with us vis-a-vis weapons sales to Pakistan.

Even our so called friends Russia, threatened to sell weapons to Pakistan when the recent talks didn't go as planned and our all weather friend Israel wouldn't mind even one bit to carry out a false flag terrorist attack in India to ignite a war between India and Pakistan in the hope of selling weapons to India or to keep Pakistan army busy with India while Israel fights a war with Turkey.

That's what makes the situation volatile for us. I have absolutely no doubt that when Israel decides to go to war with Turkey (or Iran), it will try to provoke a war between India and Pakistan to keep Pakistan engaged in a regional war with India and prevent Pakistan from entering a war to support Turkey (or to prevent India from helping Iran).

An Israel under siege is good for India. Therefore it is in our interest to shrewdly keep the Palestine pot boiling by supporting both sides as and when it is expedient upon us.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Again - excusing illegal settlements in Israel.

Israel can invade and steal land, Palestinians are bad to resist. Israel was created by Brits and it is going to face existential threat for a long time. But the threat essentially comes from the more developed nations (Iran, Syria, Egypt before it was destabilized). Any uniting force between Shia/Sunnis of Mid-East will pose a significant existential threat to Israel.

But the threat is not coming from Palestine. To subjugate them with apartheid laws is international humanitarian crime, to steal their land and build on it is a crime and I'll be damned if my country pledged support.

As I said, I have no sympathy for any barbarians there. Those who dig tunnels, use their kids as human shields, send their women to stab civilians are as or more barbaric than those who fire rockets from air planes.


This seems to be your only retort to Israel's land grabs. Its not as if IDF has not used white phosphorus, used Palestinian children as human shields, and haven't committed a wider set of atrocities on Palestinians.

It is about survival- may the best party win.

YEAHHHH. Might makes right!!

Not all nations are stupid to ignore their existential threats. Israel is slowly but constantly going to settle the Palestinian problem by finishing Palestine off the map. Those kids can keep throwing Diwali rockets as you said and further help in Israeli agenda.

Might makes right when it is between two barbarians!!

 

[Navnit Kundu]

Second time in a row, you have skirted around the illegal settlement grabbing. Israel commits international crimes everyday by pursuing a war of attrition into Palestine

You can't have it both ways. On one hand Palestinians exalt 'international rules' when it comes to their rights, on the other hand these same people circumvent international rules by denying Israel's right to exist as has been sanctioned by the same international body whose human rights charter you are urging people to uphold. It's just intellectual subterfuge to say that Israel alone has to unilaterally subscribe to international rules while the Palestinian side supposedly has no obligation to honor the same rules. The Palestinians want to relish all the rights enshrined in charters of international bodies but don't want to shoulder the responsibilities which come with it. This is cherry picking of the worst kind.

The moment they chant "death to Israel" they are voluntarily forfeiting their faith in the international body which created Israel and consequently cannot claim any rights enshrined under the auspices of the same body which they rejected so merrily.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

You can't have it both ways. On one way you exalt 'international rules' when it comes to the rights of Palestinians on the other hand these same people circumvent international rules by denying Israel's right to exist as has been sanctioned by the same international body whose human rights charter you are urging people to uphold. That's just intellectual subterfuge to say that Israel alone has to unilaterally subscribe to international rules while the Palestinian side supposedly has no obligation to honor the same rules. The Palestinians want to relish all the rights enshrined in international bodies but don't want to shoulder the responsibilities which come with it. The moment they chant "death to Israel" they are voluntarily forfeiting their faith in the international body which created Israel and consequently cannot claim any rights enshrined under the auspices of the same body which they rejected.

Try reading the constitution of Hamas or Fatah and all their niceness comes out in the first 2 pages. Annihilation of Israel is their open goal.

Only a fool nation will allow such open threats in its backyard. Btw, had it been Palestine instead of Israel with mighty power, we would not even be debating it today as the issue would have been settled long ago like Mullas did to Kashmiri Pandits in our backyard.

 

[Navnit Kundu]

Try reading the constitution of Hamas or Fatah and all their niceness comes out in the first 2 pages. Annihilation of Israel is their open goal.

Only a fool nation will allow such open threats in its backyard. Btw, had it been Palestine instead of Israel with mighty power, we would not even be debating it today as the issue would have been settled long ago like Mullas did to Kashmiri Pandits in our backyard.

Yup.

Israeli presence in the M.E. even (read : especially) with the Palestine turmoil helps our overall security environment. The Palestine issue is a moral flashpoint for Sunni nations like Turkey. If the Palestine issue didn't exist, Turkey and Israel would have no casus belli to antagonize each other. If the looming existential threat of a large scale war with Israel didn't exist, Turkey wouldn't seek broader military ties with Pakistan and subsequently Israel wouldn't share military knowhow with India to keep Pakistan tied down. This organic symbiotic relationship makes sure that Israel remains under our fold without having to bribe them or honeytrap them. If the Palestine issue is solved, we lose the favorable status quo and Israel might then start meddling in our affairs to make military sales. They played a devastating role during the LTTE period as well. We can't guarantee that global security environment wouldn't deteriorate to those incredible lows again. When that happens, it would be hard to rely exclusively on our economic relationship as a weapons buyer to fend off Israel without having our finger on the Palestine issue. The potential threat of India siding with Turkey on the Palestine issue would amply deter Israel if the security scene in our backyard worsens. For us to be able to exercise that option, the Palestine issue needs to be kept alive.

Let the conflict rage, it's the muzzies who are dying in disproportionate numbers anyway. Besides, what real costs do we incur by simply providing moral and diplomatic support? None. This is a cheap investment with very high returns for us. It would be stupid to give up the Palestinian cause for some cheap sense of right wing thrill.

 

[DingDong]

Yup.

Israeli presence in the M.E. even (read : especially) with the Palestine turmoil helps our overall security environment. The Palestine issue is a moral flashpoint for Sunni nations like Turkey. If the Palestine issue didn't exist, Turkey and Israel would have no casus belli to antagonize each other. If the looming existential threat of a large scale war with Israel didn't exist, Turkey wouldn't seek broader military ties with Pakistan and subsequently Israel wouldn't share military knowhow with India to keep Pakistan tied down. This organic symbiotic relationship makes sure that Israel remains under our fold without having to bribe them or honeytrap them. If the Palestine issue is solved, we lose the favorable status quo and Israel might then start meddling in our affairs to make military sales. They played a devastating role during the LTTE period as well. We can't guarantee that global security environment wouldn't deteriorate to those incredible lows again. When that happens, it would be hard to rely exclusively on our economic relationship as a weapons buyer to fend off Israel without having our finger on the Palestine issue. The potential threat of India siding with Turkey on the Palestine issue would amply deter Israel if the security scene in our backyard worsens. For us to be able to exercise that option, the Palestine issue needs to be kept alive.

Let the conflict rage, it's the muzzies who are dying in disproportionate numbers anyway. Besides, what real costs do we incur by simply providing moral and diplomatic support? None. This is a cheap investment with very high returns for us. It would be stupid to give up the Palestinian cause for some cheap sense of right wing thrill.

One of the best posts describing in this thread the complexities. India's foreign policy must have just a single driving force "Indian Interests", nothing else matters.

India supports Palestine because we have got no pressing reason to take sides in ME where we aren't a significant player anyways.

To give another example, Iran and Israel are mortal enemies, but it doesn't make any sense for us to break ties with Iran to make Israel happy.

Mr. Morality can take a hike.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

@DingDong, @Navnit Kundu's post can be made sticky and forced to read on this thread.

Again and again Indians fall for either love of Israel or poor Palestinians. But as mentioned, it is Indian interests which should be paramount in all circumstances.

 

[Params7]

Glad someone brought this up. We aren't morally beholden to tow the Israeli line on any policy issue out of gratitude for weapons they sell to us, for which we pay the full price. We are a sovereign nation, we do what's best for us. Besides, Jews aren't some otherworldly saints who have descended upon humanity to talk about marshmallows and bunnies. The Jews are no less hostile to Dharmics than other Abrahamics.

This is done with great forethought, not out of some Nehruvian idea of a hipster worldview. Modi was scheduled to visit Israel, making him the first Indian PM, then suddenly they downgraded the level of diplomatic engagement from PM to MEA, now Sushma Swaraj is going. I think this change was a result of some hard thinking by our security cabinet. It is in our interest that Israel remain under some kind of existential threat from other nations, so that India can retain an elevated position of importance in the eyes of Israel. An Israel that is under no pressure has no obligation to play nice with India, and they might as well start blackmailing us with threats of selling weapons technology to Pakistan, like Russia and France does. The fact that Israel remains under siege impedes them from taking any measures that might alienate India. This status quo favors us.

Israel needs India because the constantly looming threat of India keeps Pakistan from forging any meaningful military alliance with Israel's enemy, Turkey. It is this threat that makes Israel less likely to double cross us. If the threat from Turkey didn't exist, Israel would be blackmailing us right now. It is in our interest that the Palestine conflict keeps boiling with no resolution in sight. We encourage both sides (Israel and OPEC) to indulge in a competitive bidding to stay in the good books of India since India is a big strategic buyer for both of them. We maintain an ambiguous stance on Palestine so that both Israel and OPEC keep offering us their respective strategic resources (weapons and oil) at competitive rates in exchange for our diplomatic support for their respective causes in the international forums. If the Palestine conflict is solved, then Israel has nothing to stop it from playing a wider global role and there is a fear that they might start playing the same game that the US plays with us vis-a-vis weapons sales to Pakistan.

Even our so called friends Russia, threatened to sell weapons to Pakistan when the recent talks didn't go as planned and our all weather friend Israel wouldn't mind even one bit to carry out a false flag terrorist attack in India to ignite a war between India and Pakistan in the hope of selling weapons to India or to keep Pakistan army busy with India while Israel fights a war with Turkey.

That's what makes the situation volatile for us. I have absolutely no doubt that when Israel decides to go to war with Turkey (or Iran), it will try to provoke a war between India and Pakistan to keep Pakistan engaged in a regional war with India and prevent Pakistan from entering a war to support Turkey (or to prevent India from helping Iran).

An Israel under siege is good for India. Therefore it is in our interest to shrewdly keep the Palestine pot boiling by supporting both sides as and when it is expedient upon us.

I don't see how Israel would ever deal with Pakistan. This is what is written on the back of ever Pakistani passport:

I think Pakistan doesn't even recognize Israel in their world map but I could be wrong. Netanyahu also refused to be in the same restaurant as Nawaz Sharif in New York last year. Israel and Pakistan share a lot of animosity, a couple of Pakistani pilots took part in the 6 day war and shot down Israeli jets, lol. I don't see Israel getting cosy with Pakistan just to smite India.

I think Israel knows India is going to be more or less neutral, and they don't really consider India (or Pakistan for that matter) in their day to day foreign politics.

Israel's biggest enemy and threat right now is Iran, not Turkey. Turkey is getting pretty cosy with Israel on the global front, just like the Sunni Gulf states are with Israel at this point. Turkey is part of NATO (no country is allowed to be anti-Israel while in Nato) and is begging to be part of the Eurozone. They can't do that while being anti-Israel. They are also fighting with U.S./CIA backed insurgents in Syria against Assad (a war which Israel supports - no matter who wins - as long as destruction is caused within Syria and Assad's regime) and against the Kurds in Syria and Iraq.

Basically, as of now given the Syria situation you have Hezbollah/Iran/Syrian Military Army/Russia as pro-Assad on one side versus U.S/Israel/Turkey/Gulf states such as Saudi Arabia and Qatar/Euro nations as the Anti-Assad alliance on the other side. The people suffering the most are average Syrians of course.

Israel and Netanyahu feel the threat from Iran. Iran openly calls out the Zionists and accuse them of causing wars in Mid-East, while Iran backs and funds Hezbollah and many other Pro-Palestine causes far more than Turkey. Netanyahu also threw a massive fit in the White House when they lifted the sanctions from Iran. Last think Israel wants is Iran getting nukes.