Can history repeat itself in Tibet ?

[s002wjh]

the tibetans need to modernise their strategy ( sorry to add - IF they can ) and realise they wont win trying to but take the dragon "head on"

they need lateral methods - eg - raise consciousness in the USA canada western europe - ...UN ....ngo's

take the fight globally - CAN THEY DO THIS ?? - this is the hard reality they are facing , like it or not .

like what bomb bus and planes? you do know there is more han chinese live in tibet, consider tibet as their home now than tibetan themself. the time for rebellion is over in the 60's.

 

[no smoking]

the tibetans need to modernise their strategy ( sorry to add - IF they can ) and realise they wont win trying to but take the dragon "head on"

they need lateral methods - eg - raise consciousness in the USA canada western europe - ...UN ....ngo's

take the fight globally - CAN THEY DO THIS ?? - this is the hard reality they are facing , like it or not .

The problems with your opinion are:
1. This kind of consciousness in USA or any western europe countries never existed.
2. Take the dragon "head on"? Lead by who? Those lamas? You have to realise that these lamas had kept selling tibet to foreign rulers for hundreds years! Worst of worse, in most of times, they were the one to invite foreigners in proactively!
3. Take the fight globally? Yes, they are doing it! Crying to westners in every single opportunity! But the reality is when you are asking others to fight a war on your behalf, you must offer something in return. However, when your target is one of the top 5 powers in the world, the price is always high above your ability.

 

[Ray]

Lamas in Tibet have been the spiritual and political heads.

Therefore, for the Tibetan Buddhists, they alone are leaders in giving directions. If that was not so, the Chinese authorities would not go after them or even bother about the Dalai Lama.

Take the case of the Falung Gong people. The Chinese crushed them, declared them illegal and now don't even bother about them. So, if the Tibetan Lamas were not of concern, the same would have been done.

In so far as a Tibetan Uprising is concerned, it is a moot point.

The Chinese Govt has flooded Tibet with Hans and Huis and they have settled down. They will outnumber the Tibetans. Therefore, by numbers also the Tibetans will not be able to take on the Chinese Govt.

For any Uprising to succeed, arms and ammunition is required. Pacifism will not be able to anything.

No Govt would like to upset the Chinese because of the trade that is on, and that too with the global economy in a turmoil to fund or equip any Tibetan insurrection.

Therefore, at the moment, a status quo will continue.

The situation can take a turn if the Uighurs cannot start an insurrection, then there is a possibility that it will spread to Tibet and possible to Inner Mongolia too!

 

[huaxia rox]

I am from the NE. I have never heard of anyone from NE wanting to break free. Is this your fantasy story told by unkil weeny jibao?

sure u havnt....in fact people in NE india all like being indian and they were egear to join india since as early as 1947...those who r either anti india or anti-hindu r just a few and they r all terrorists.....and india has made significent achivements since india accepted people in NE india joinning the union.....

now u r feeling pretty good in your world right??

 

[huaxia rox]

North-East may well be lost to India : Rajeev Dhavan, News - India Today

......
We have never understood the North-East or even wanted to. We simply adopted the 'protectionism' of the Empire in the Government of India Act, 1935, and reproduced its paternalism. The North-East was bound to India by the business of tea and timber. On 14 August, 1947, the Nagas declared their independence. Manipur came to India virtually by conquest. The Nagas claimed to be never conquered. Nehru thought these 'nations' (for that, indeed they were) could not survive independently. In the Constituent Assembly, there was a Special Committee on Assam including Gopinath Bardoloi, Revd Nicholls Roy, R.N. Brahma, Mayang Nokcha and A.V. Thakkar.
......

China’s progress provokes border envy in India - FT.com

Indians living in border areas neighbouring China are beginning to envy fast-paced development brought by Beijing to the point of regretting being Indian, a senior member of India's ruling Congress party has warned.

Mani Shankar Aiyar, a former senior diplomat and cabinet minister with responsibility for India's volatile northeast region, described the development that China was bringing to its southwest and Tibet as "simply spectacular".

He said impoverished local people in India's northeast were asking themselves: "What is the mistake we have made by being Indians [rather than Chinese]?" He also warned of the consequences of families divided by the colonial era border "beginning to hear stories about the kind of progress happening on the other [Chinese] side".
......

 

[s002wjh]

Lamas in Tibet have been the spiritual and political heads.

Therefore, for the Tibetan Buddhists, they alone are leaders in giving directions. If that was not so, the Chinese authorities would not go after them or even bother about the Dalai Lama.

Take the case of the Falung Gong people. The Chinese crushed them, declared them illegal and now don't even bother about them. So, if the Tibetan Lamas were not of concern, the same would have been done.

In so far as a Tibetan Uprising is concerned, it is a moot point.

The Chinese Govt has flooded Tibet with Hans and Huis and they have settled down. They will outnumber the Tibetans. Therefore, by numbers also the Tibetans will not be able to take on the Chinese Govt.

For any Uprising to succeed, arms and ammunition is required. Pacifism will not be able to anything.

No Govt would like to upset the Chinese because of the trade that is on, and that too with the global economy in a turmoil to fund or equip any Tibetan insurrection.

Therefore, at the moment, a status quo will continue.

The situation can take a turn if the Uighurs cannot start an insurrection, then there is a possibility that it will spread to Tibet and possible to Inner Mongolia too!

yeah how well when the leader is both religion and political leader work throughout history. it doesn't work well, hence religion and politic are separate in todays government

 

[Tshering22]

break free so badly??? as badly as those people in NE india feel???? must be what the dalai lama has told u......

And we want to break free from what precisely? Care to elaborate?

 

[Ray]

yeah how well when the leader is both religion and political leader work throughout history. it doesn't work well, hence religion and politic are separate in todays government

China security chief calls for social stability ahead of leadership change

China's top security chief has urged police across the country to "safeguard social stability" for the upcoming 18th Congress of the Communist Party, which will see a change of guards in Beijing.

The official Xinhua News Agency on Saturday quoted Zhou Yongkang as saying the police should make efforts to create a "safe and stable" social environment to ensure the success of the national congress, dates of which are yet to be made public.

In its once a decade leadership change, China's President and Communist Party supremo Hu Jintao is expected to hand over party reins to Xi Jinping.

"Police authorities at all levels must strive to safeguard social stability, the fundamental interests of the people and the authority of the law," Zhou was quoted as saying.

Following the market slump and a series of labour unrests, China last year spent more on "public security" than the military for the first time. Public security, which covers state surveillance of its people and maintaining China's paramilitary police, received a boost by nearly 14% to the tune of $95 billion.

Spending on China's internal security is set to increase in the future, if Zhou is to be believed, who last year warned provincial officials of more unrest in China.

In July this year, China's propaganda chief, on a visit to Tibet, underlined the importance of maintaining stability and ordered officials to intensify the fight against separatism in the restive region.

Ranked fifth in the hierarchy of the ruling Communist Party, Li Changchun's visit came in the midst of the ongoing wave of self-immolations, which has witnessed 51 Tibetans in Tibet, since 2009, set themselves on fire demanding freedom and the return of the Dalai Lama.

"We must guide officials and the people to continually strengthen their understanding of the great (Chinese) motherland and people and deepen and expand the fight against separatism," Li said.

He also pushed for an education campaign to "underscore the historic fact that Tibet is an inseparable part of China," which should form "the ideological basis for the fight against separatism and the maintenance of stability."

China security chief calls for social stability ahead of leadership change - www.phayul.com

I would be obliged if you could enlighten me as to how when the leader is both religion and political leader worked throughout history caused an imbalance. But one should also keep in mind the socio political environment of those times when judging.

Here in the article is a case in point where a religious leader, not even present in the country, can send shivers down the spine of the Govt that claims to represent the people, albeit self appointed, though nevertheless a Govt in power there.

Odd to say the least!

A ghostly presence scaring the living hell!

 

[Ray]

And we want to break free from what precisely? Care to elaborate?

huaxia rox

Isn't it surprising that you talk so authoritatively about the NE people wanting to break free and here is a person who is who you think you are talking for, totally finding you to be ludicrous as you tend to be when you talk through your hat,(for the want of a better expression) so authoritatively?

 

[chase]

Not many people know that but Tawang which is on the border of china-india and claimed by the chinese is the most patriotic place in the whole of india.

On 15th august they host so many indian flags that even New Delhi will fade away.

 

[no smoking]

Lamas in Tibet have been the spiritual and political heads.
Therefore, for the Tibetan Buddhists, they alone are leaders in giving directions. If that was not so, the Chinese authorities would not go after them or even bother about the Dalai Lama.

China never denied that these so called "leaders in giving directions". The only problem is that Chinese are not willing to pay the price asked by Dalai Lama for selling tibet.

Take the case of the Falung Gong people. The Chinese crushed them, declared them illegal and now don't even bother about them. So, if the Tibetan Lamas were not of concern, the same would have been done.

The paper of Falun Gong doesn't agree with you!

In so far as a Tibetan Uprising is concerned, it is a moot point.

The Chinese Govt has flooded Tibet with Hans and Huis and they have settled down. They will outnumber the Tibetans. Therefore, by numbers also the Tibetans will not be able to take on the Chinese Govt.

For any Uprising to succeed, arms and ammunition is required. Pacifism will not be able to anything.

When most of tibetans can have a better material life than the time of Lama's rulling. It is really hard to ask them to shed blood for Lama! Yes, they can protest and yelling for their religion, but they won't wage a war for Dalai Lama. He already sold them once, can't betray them again.

No Govt would like to upset the Chinese because of the trade that is on, and that too with the global economy in a turmoil to fund or equip any Tibetan insurrection.

Therefore, at the moment, a status quo will continue.

That is quit funny. The effort to support a tibet war was put to end before 1974, where was chinese in international trade at that time?

The situation can take a turn if the Uighurs cannot start an insurrection, then there is a possibility that it will spread to Tibet and possible to Inner Mongolia too!

This is just a wishful thinking! If Uighurs, tibet cannot got their independence during China's civil war era. What can make them succeed when facing a power far more stronger than 1949 while tibet were far less united than 1949 (at least they did have red tibetans at that time).
And thanks to Qing's successful strategy, inner mongolian had become Han's natural allies in the fight against outer mongolia. Learn some knowledge before making your opinion!

 

[huaxia rox]

And we want to break free from what precisely? Care to elaborate?

i dont know who is the 'we' u r talking about...........there r tons of articles or even whole websites can tell u many people in NE india have been seeking their independence and freedom........needless to say many naxal fighters who may not merely seek independence but r againt high caste hindus......

and pls comment on this:
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/28211170-f875-11de-beb8-00144feab49a.html]China's progress provokes border envy in India - FT.com

Indians living in border areas neighbouring China are beginning to envy fast-paced development brought by Beijing to the point of regretting being Indian, a senior member of India's ruling Congress party has warned.

Mani Shankar Aiyar, a former senior diplomat and cabinet minister with responsibility for India's volatile northeast region, described the development that China was bringing to its southwest and Tibet as "simply spectacular".

He said impoverished local people in India's northeast were asking themselves: "What is the mistake we have made by being Indians [rather than Chinese]?" He also warned of the consequences of families divided by the colonial era border "beginning to hear stories about the kind of progress happening on the other [Chinese] side".

this really shows the so called loyalty of indians......

 

[Ray]

China never denied that these so called "leaders in giving directions". The only problem is that Chinese are not willing to pay the price asked by Dalai Lama for selling tibet.

Selling?

The Tibetans don't even feel you own it!

The paper of Falun Gong doesn't agree with you!

I would not know their editorial policy which I am sure you maybe knowing because you maybe a secret follower of the same said movement!

When most of tibetans can have a better material life than the time of Lama's rulling. It is really hard to ask them to shed blood for Lama! Yes, they can protest and yelling for their religion, but they won't wage a war for Dalai Lama. He already sold them once, can't betray them again.

That is what you Godless Han would not understand.

More than material happiness, is the spiritual happiness.

不闻不若闻之，闻之不若见之，见之不若知之，知之不若行之；学至于行之而止矣
( You can't understand until you walk a mile in someone else's shoes.)

This is just a wishful thinking! If Uighurs, tibet cannot got their independence during China's civil war era. What can make them succeed when facing a power far more stronger than 1949 while tibet were far less united than 1949 (at least they did have red tibetans at that time).
And thanks to Qing's successful strategy, inner mongolian had become Han's natural allies in the fight against outer mongolia. Learn some knowledge before making your opinion!

In a way you are right. Xi Jumping thought he would become the Head of China. And now he is missing, having had to cancel meeting even the US Secretary of State.

No one can be a natural ally of the Han or any race, if they are to be swallowed by the other race.

That is what is real wishful thinking!

 

[Ray]

i dont know who is the 'we' u r talking about...........there r tons of articles or even whole websites can tell u many people in NE india have been seeking their independence and freedom........needless to say many naxal fighters who may not merely seek independence but r againt high caste hindus......

and pls comment on this:
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/28211170-f875-11de-beb8-00144feab49a.html]China's progress provokes border envy in India - FT.com


this really shows the so called loyalty of indians......

Tons of website states that China is a hopeless country with people wanting freedom. What do you say of that?

In so far as Mani Aiyer, He is a bitter old man who loves to give sensational statements just to be in the news. You must understand, he is a politician and from a elitist class (and by the way a high class Brahmin of whom you talk of oppressing the people! ) He is so 'popular' that he had to come through the back door through a reserved entry into the Rajya Sabha just to remain relevant. That much for him and his opinion!

If he has embraced you and given you the warmth that you so miss, then bully for him! At least someone likes him and believes in him!

 

[Oracle]

sure u havnt....in fact people in NE india all like being indian and they were egear to join india since as early as 1947...those who r either anti india or anti-hindu r just a few and they r all terrorists.....and india has made significent achivements since india accepted people in NE india joinning the union.....

now u r feeling pretty good in your world right??

Yes I am. I am also enjoying the benefits of NE being a part of India. Make no mistake, the moment you Chinese think of any misadventure, the axe of the people of NE will fall on the tool which have brought about idiots like you.

 

[huaxia rox]

Tons of website states that China is a hopeless country with people wanting freedom. What do you say of that?

In so far as Mani Aiyer, He is a bitter old man who loves to give sensational statements just to be in the news. You must understand, he is a politician and from a elitist class (and by the way a high class Brahmin of whom you talk of oppressing the people! ) He is so 'popular' that he had to come through the back door through a reserved entry into the Rajya Sabha just to remain relevant. That much for him and his opinion!

If he has embraced you and given you the warmth that you so miss, then bully for him! At least someone likes him and believes in him!

so basically u mean who ever is against your claims should be deemed as liars such as Mani Aiyer or mr nehur???and people shouldnt believe them???

 

[Ray]

so basically u mean who ever is against your claims should be deemed as liars such as Mani Aiyer or mr nehur???and people shouldnt believe them???

Mani Aiyer is not an idiot. He is an adroit old bean who has had elitist education and very versatile with the language.

Which ever Ministry he has headed, he has always projected that it was all in ruins before he came and he alone has been able to something and that too, single handed.

That is why he has never been in any Ministry for long and has been shunted out as a bad apple.

Therefore, he has this penchant to overdo his persona and remain relevant by outrageous statements that catch the eye!

Take the example. He was an India Foreign Service Officer and was posted to Pakistan. There have been many posted so in Pakistan. Yet hear him in a debate. He will project himself as if he knows all about Pakistan including what is being said in the Pakistani Cabinet or the ISI!

It is like you shaking the hand of Deng and then claiming that you are the one who opened China to economic boom!

Mani Aiyer is like that. He thinks that he is the Middle Kingdom and all others are barbarians.

 

[Ray]

@huaxia rox

Mr Nehru?

To use the Chinese way of not saying anything, I will use that leaf the Chinese uses for Mao.

He was 30% wrong, and 70% right.

Don't ask me how I can bring the abstract into percentages. Actually I can't.

It is only the Chinese who can bring things into statistics (even though all know it is a huge FUDGE!)

 

[huaxia rox]

so basically u mean this indian politician was lying???

and what is a lie and what is not should be judged by u???

 

[Ray]

so basically u mean this indian politician was lying???

and what is a lie and what is not should be judged by u???

No.

He was hallucinating.

Please check the Arunachal MP's statement in the Parliament on the latest exodus issue.

I can assure you that as a Delhi based Minister, he has spent less time that those who work there and who are not from the NE.

The Army personnel have more exposure there and that too at the grassroot level than this exalted egotistical goat!