Call for Indo-US security pact with Canberra.

Discussion in 'Internal Security' started by JayATL, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. JayATL

    JayATL Senior Member Senior Member

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    Call for Indo-US security pact with Canberra.
    by: Greg Sheridan, Foreign editor
    From: The Australian
    November 04, 2011 12:00AM

    AUSTRALIA,India and the US should form a trilateral security dialogue, partly to counter the challenge of China's rising naval power.

    A new report by three key think tanks also suggests Canberra and Washington should work actively to get India into the Asia Pacific Economic Co-operation forum.

    The paper - Shared Goals, Converging Interests: A Plan for US-Australia-India Co-operation in the Indo-Pacific - was jointly written by senior scholars from the Lowy Institute, India's Observer Research Foundation and the Heritage Foundation in the US.

    The paper argues that the three nations should embrace greater defence co-operation, and that while this might start modestly, it should expand into serious operational areas.

    "As confidence and trust build among the three nations, they should explore closer strategic and operational collaboration, beginning with transnational security issues and potentially moving into more high-end areas," the paper says.
    Free trial

    "In time, these might include surveillance, maritime expeditionary operations, anti-submarine warfare and perhaps even integration of theatre missile defence."

    The paper calls for enhanced counter-terrorism co-operation among Delhi, Washington and Canberra, and says the danger of nuclear and radiological terrorism has increased sharply in the past decade.

    Amitabh Mattoo, the director of the Australia India Institute at Melbourne University, welcomed the proposed trilateral security dialogue.

    "I think it's an idea whose time has come," Professor Mattoo told The Australian. "It's not a dialogue which is confronting anyone, it's a dialogue about maintaining Asian security."

    The Gillard government's initial response to the proposed three-way dialogue is positive.

    A spokesman for Foreign Minister Kevin Rudd said: "The idea of trilateral co-operation between India, the US and Australia is a thoughtful one that deserves further study. We are logical partners, and it is in all three countries' interests to continue to expand consultation and co-operation."

    The paper notes that until now India has not viewed Australia as a priority security partner, despite some improvements in defence co-operation and a joint declaration in 2009 on security co-operation.

    The paper says: "The declaration is less substantial than its Australia-Japan counterpart, and progress in fleshing it out and implementing it remains uneven.

    "The tempo of bilateral military exercises has been slow, and India does not yet treat Australia as a priority security partner. Apparently a major reason for this is continued Indian disappointment with Canberra's failure to change its policy banning uranium sales to India for civil purposes."

    The paper urges Australia to lift its ban on selling uranium to India, an issue likely to be considered at the ALP's national conference next month.

    The paper emphasises the need to engage the Indian navy, the fifth largest in the world, and says the Australian and Indian navies "will likely find themselves monitoring contiguous maritime zones".

    The paper identifies with concern a pattern of Chinese harassment, especially in the South China Sea.

    "Since 2009, there have been a series of maritime incidents in which Chinese naval or paramilitary vessels and aircraft have challenged or harassed American, Japanese, Vietnamese and Philippine vessels in the South China Sea, East China Sea and Yellow Sea far seaward of China's 12-nautical-mile territorial limits," the paper says.

    It records a Chinese challenge to an Indian ship off the coast of Vietnam, and notes: "The dynamic of Sino-Indian competition at sea is likely to intensify as Chinese interests expand westward and India's expand eastward."

    Cookies must be enabled | The Australian
     
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  3. JayATL

    JayATL Senior Member Senior Member

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    Perfect segway to what I posted yesterday.. http://defenceforumindia.com/foreign-relations/26805-why-india-has-ally-us.html ( a terrific read for those bright enough)


     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  4. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    The think tanks are right but the problem is think lies in Australia. They are not being flexible. Though it may not be right to hold relations ransom to just one issue, but i think it is quite related to the Uranium sale or the ban on it by Australia. The other thing that might be holding back India is the whole "use" of Australia in the real sense. I mean Australia is dependent on the US for security while India is not. Well that may be the thinking and i may be wrong in it, Austalia is not a big geopolitical player.

    This whole trilateral pact has been talked about for quite some time including the one that includes Japan and South Korea. But i really dont think anyone has moved too seriously about it including India. May be there is trust deficit, may be still evaluating the use of it particularly India and its old non aligned mentality. The other thing is that Australia does not sit on any important sea lanes or is not that close to it. I dont think the Australian navy goes into the south china sea which could be of importance to India particularly as it looks to secure interests in that area. I mean if we have a pact with the US, that is good enough as the US is the most powerful navy off the Ausie coast anyways.

    All in all, its going to be a while before any pact comes around which involves Australia. India will be more keen to forge an alliance with Japan and South Korea along with the US and the Aussies will be there by default.
     
  5. JayATL

    JayATL Senior Member Senior Member

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    i dont disagre with australia itself not being of most strategic importance but it does hold the most vital listening post for the US - critical to keeping an eye over china.

    In regards to the single issue- we are reading a sea change on that opinion. How many media reports came out last week from it's think tanks urging this govt to drop its stance? Its only a question of time and the uranimum issue will be a done deal.

    Regarding economic zones, once again it not that if do they deal in south china sea but rather have the most critical listening posts to gather intelligence on china's movement. and thats why australia plays a critical role for even those other countries you citied to be included. let alone US bases there that are a needed critical secruity hedge that all the countries in the pact desire.

     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  6. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    yawn, the desi brigade at it again.

    a security pact with australia? when those idiots are still towing the we wont sell you uranium because you are a rogue state. I'd rather see the insolent Aussie thugs colonized by the Chinese.
    There are enough Indians and Chinese there already and maybe one day Australia will become the an Indo - Chinese war theatre, just like Afghanistan was a US-Russian one. :rofl:
     
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  7. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Call for Australia, US security pact with India

    AFP: Call for Australia, US security pact with India


    SYDNEY — Australia and the United States should form a three-way security dialogue with India, in part to help counter any naval aggression from China, a report said Friday.
    Produced by three think-tanks -- Australia's well-respected Lowy Institute, India's independent Observer Research Foundation and the conservative Heritage Foundation in the US -- the report calls for greater engagement with New Delhi, including in counter-terrorism.
    "This paper provides ideas for establishing US-Australia-India dialogue and coordination across a host of economic, political, and security issues," the document said.
    "As confidence and trust build among the three nations, they should explore closer strategic and operational collaboration, beginning with transnational security issues and potentially moving into more high-end areas.
    "In time, these might include surveillance, maritime expeditionary operations, anti-submarine warfare and perhaps even integration of theatre missile defence."
    The paper -- entitled "Shared Goals, Converging Interests: A Plan for US-Australia-India Cooperation in the Indo-Pacific" -- notes that India "does not yet treat Australia as a priority security partner".
    Canberra and New Delhi signed a joint declaration on security co-operation in 2009, but the paper said that since then the tempo of military exercises had been slow.
    "Apparently a major reason for this is continued Indian disappointment with Canberra's failure to change its policy banning uranium sales to India for civil purposes," it said.
    The paper, which called on Australia to approve the sales to help India meet its energy needs, said the Indian and Australian navies "will likely find themselves monitoring contiguous maritime zones".
    It noted a series of incidents of Chinese "harassment" of other countries since 2009, especially in the South China Sea, adding that Sino-Indian competition at sea was likely to intensify.
     
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  8. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    How does current regime in Aus views this report? I know the answer :p
     
  9. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    Yeah, Australia is useless. Better to focus on Indonesia instead.
     
  10. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    Aussies could start by selling us Uranium first.
     
  11. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    They have too much Uranium to be useless.
     
  12. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    We're not going to get that uranium. Aussies are already deep in China's pocket.
     
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  13. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Looks like we won't get it anytime soon, but then I am of the opinion that we should keep trying. If they agree to sell their Uranium, I would definitely take it.
     
  14. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Jay, that's why i said a pact with the US is as good having the Aussies on board.
     
  15. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    The Australians should feel the need to join up with India, it has done enough overtures to them, only to be turned down.
    India is quite well taken care off, with Vietnam, US, Afghanistan, Mongolia and Japan as of now. Australia has to bend over backwards for India to consider them worthy of being in partnership with us.
     
  16. JayATL

    JayATL Senior Member Senior Member

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    well - you need auz to get that intel sharing and joint patrols. Just because you have an alliance with US does not mean you automatically get to be a part of aus/us military intel from those listening posts.
     
  17. JayATL

    JayATL Senior Member Senior Member

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    I just wish one day we have more critical thinkers on this forum.

    This a strategic alliance not a trade alliance

    This is not a zero sum game- where just because you don't have 1/100 of your trade wishes you give up on an important strategic alliance

    Like- just because you don't have border disputes settled with china you don't give up on trade with china.

    Like- just because you vote for palestine in the UN , you don't have Israel negating any military deals with India!

    Critical thinking and not emotional poppycock!
    :toilet:
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2011
  18. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    If India and US are a team then India will automatically get intel from the US from those listening posts.See I really don't mind Australia in an alliance with India, I am trying to think like what people in the corridors of power might be thinking she it comes to an alliance having Australia in it.
     
  19. JayATL

    JayATL Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yusuf- those are australian listening posts dude , they fall under a US / AUS alliance treaty. How do you figure US would take that and give access to it without australia's permission! ? Its on their sovereign land brother! these are real time intel reports exclusive to aus and US- even other NATO countries don't get automatic access... you think Turkey is given such vital access?let alone non nato India?

    Pine Gap


    The Joint Defense Research facility at Pine Gap became operational in 1969. It has two basic functions. The first relates to communication with satellites, especially early warning satellites and includes the command and control functions of these. This function includes continuous "real-time monitoring of any Soviet or Chinese ICBM, FOBS and some SLBM launchings". Other capabilities of this installations are detection of nuclear explosive energy and warhead type of enemy weapons.


    Nurrungar Space Communications Station
    The joint Defense space communications station, Nurrungar, is located in the Woomera test site of Australia.

    Nurrungar has two main functions. The first is to provide warning of long-range missile attack and the second is transmission of reconnaissance information from American reconnaissance satellites to receiving agencies in the United States. Nurrungar plays an important role in monitoring the development of Chinese strategic weapons. Its location is important to the US because "Australia is ideally suited for receiving pictures immediately after the satellite passes over China
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2011
  20. debasree

    debasree Regular Member

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    i think tokio delhi washington trilateral pact will have more punch,as australia is not reliable at all.
     
  21. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    Jay, the reason Australia wont sell uranium to India as stated by them is that India is not an NPT signatory thereby implying that we are a proliferation concern and hence a direct / indirect security threat to Australia. So from Australia's perspective, how can they have a strategic alliance with a nation that poses a security threat to them?

    Really ....:lol:
    Have you taken time to read the stuff you post?
     

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