CAG slams Navy for buying MiGs without weapons

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by SHASH2K2, Sep 9, 2011.

  1. SHASH2K2

    SHASH2K2 New Member

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    New Delhi, September 8
    Pointing to a sheer wastage of public funds, the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) in its report slammed the Ministry of Defence and the Navy for buying war planes that do not have weapons. It also pointed a finger at the Indian Air Force (IAF) for having ‘let off’ three of its officers who caused a loss of Rs 302 crore when a sensitive aerostat radar got damaged.

    The CAG, in its report tabled in both Houses of Parliament, said the Indian Navy followed a flawed approach in acquiring its fighter aircraft fleet by not finalising the associated weapon package. The CAG said that 11 out of 16 MiG 29K aircraft, acquired at a cost of $740.35 million (Rs 3,405.61 crore), been delivered in December 2009 and May 2011. No matching armament, for which a contract was signed in March 2006, has been delivered as on October 2010, thereby adversely affecting the operational capabilities of the aircraft.

    Further, the Navy has selected a ‘beyond visual range’ (BVR) missile with an unsatisfactory track record. Lastly, the complete armament package finalised for the aircraft contains certain ammunition, worth $20.98 million (Rs 93.68 crore) which did not have the approval of the competent authority.

    The MiG 29K is a deck-based fighter meant for seaborne aircraft carrier INS Vikramaditya (Admiral Gorshkov). At present, the fighters are based at a land base in Goa as the aircraft carrier itself has not arrived.

    The agreement was signed under an Inter-Governmental Agreement (IGA) between India and Russia in October 2000 for the procurement of an aircraft carrier along with the MiGs for onboard operations. The Ministry of Defence in January 2004 concluded a contract with Russian Aircraft Corporation (RAC-MIG) for procurement of the MiG 29K aircraft. The weapons package was postponed and de-linked from the negotiations for the aircraft.

    IAF censured over damaged radar

    The CAG went on to question the capability of the IAF in tracking enemy aircraft. Saying it has taken a hit as one of its two aerostat radars was damaged in an accident in 2009.

    This was due to the "failure" of its three officers and is likely to be operational only by next year. A Court of Inquiry was ordered to investigate the causes of the accident involving the Rs 338 crore aerostat. It “held three officers responsible for their failure in adequate supervision" of the maintenance activities.

    CLAW-LESS HAWKS

    No matching armament for the Navy’s MiG 29K fighter planes, for which a contract was signed in March 2006, has been delivered till Oct 2010
    Then, the Navy selected a ‘beyond visual range’ missile with an unsatisfactory track record
    The complete armament package contains certain ammunition that do not have the approval of the competent authority
     
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  3. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    A similar report is on FirstPost

    Navy draws CAG flak over poor missile system

    What were the aircraft doing for nearly a year without the armament. This should be looked into with full speed and accountability at MOD should be fixed, so that we do not see such a situation occurring again.
     
  4. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    On reading the above article again I noticed another indicator of things being rotten to the core in this deal.

    Does it take 8 months to reply to a Constitutional body, or were some people busy tying to cover up their tracks.
     
  5. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    ^Welcome to India and chalta hai attitude!
     
  6. sandeepdg

    sandeepdg Senior Member Senior Member

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    Which BVR missile did the Navy buy for these Mig-29Ks ?
     
  7. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    we just want to scare away the enemy by flying over them and winning the war without firing a shot. This is new form of winning by non violence. Show them a gun without bullet and make them surrender.
     
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  8. thakur_ritesh

    thakur_ritesh Administrator Administrator

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    if the mig 29K/KUB cant be stealth at least the weapons can be :D

    not surprised!
     
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  9. sandeepdg

    sandeepdg Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yeah, apply non-violence to modern warfare ! Go the Gandhian way, that seems to be the mantra. Who needs the bullets, bombs or missiles. Just show them the hardware and scare them, and if they are not intimidated, well, bad choice. :pound:
     
  10. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    This is the way the political class and the politicians treat our armed forces. The philosophy is very clear, me first and then the nation.
     
  11. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    Stealth Weapons Indeed.

    Is there a CAG report on Arjun-MBT? Not the old 80s and 90s report. Something very recent on the evaluation of the tank at its current stage?

    CAG was not even impressed by the Dhruv and no one knows what a bitter pill we will have to sallow for the Arjun!
     
  12. ace009

    ace009 Freakin' Fighter fan Elite Member

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    Come on guys - the pilots are training to throw bricks and fire slingshots at the enemies! What do we need missiles for?

    The "unsatisfactory" BVR missile is the R77 (RVV-AE) BVR missiles - which have been found to perform poorly on IAF combat aircraft and have been cited by the CAG previously.
    Nearly half of Russian air-to-air missiles with IAF have homing, ageing problems: CAG report - Indian Express
    The R77 has kinematic problems, because of "aging" of the propellants in storage. The Russian technology for propellants is currently stuck at late 1980s standard (~30 years behind US missile stanrds). US missiles can stay active even after 25-30 years of storage, while Russian missiles have performance drops in 5-10 years). Not to mention aging of the sensors and homing devices, primarily due to shoddy manufacturing standards. Most of Russian weapons and equipment are still "handmade" (instead of being automated, due to lack of proper manufacturing automation).

    Problems in Russian weapons industry is now openly public and the less India stays dependant on Russia, the better off we are.

    NY Times Advertisement
    Manufacturing violations cause of Bulava tests failures - Navy commander (Update 1) | Defense | RIA Novosti

    Even Isarel knows this ...
    Israel Defence and Security Report Q4 2011 - new market research report

    India should try for some Israeli stuff, or get the AMRAAM till Astra comes on line.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
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  13. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Our Mig-29ks are not operational, hence weapons purchases were not made. If weapon purchases were made then the weapons would be completely useless because they have no way of reaching the enemy. The Navy needs a carrier which would be operational only in 2013.

    It makes sense to wait for new weapons from Russia which can be used while flying off carriers rather than when they are sitting on the ground being useless and stuff.

    Had India ordered weapons for the Migs in 2006, then they would have already finished half their service life without having seen operational deployment. A total waste of funds.
     
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  14. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    If this was the case then two questions come to mind
    1. Why was the hurry to take delivery of the aircraft if they were to remain in operational till the arrival of INS Vikramaditya?
    2. again if we agree to your point, it then raises questions on MOD that why did they not give this reply to the CAG for nearly 8 months.
     
  15. ace009

    ace009 Freakin' Fighter fan Elite Member

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    P2Prada - if we listen to your argument, then most of the Mig-29Ks should have been delivered only with the Gorshkov. 3-4 trainers (KUB versions) should have been enough. Otherwise, IN is losing out on 5 years of the life of the Mig-29Ks when the carrier is not even ready.
    On the other hand, if India is REALLY waiting for next gen Russian missiles (Scheduled to be tested in late 2012 and to be inducted from 2014), then the Mig-29Ks are sitting ducks (or flying ducks - :D), with no combat capabilities. Then again, why did the IN sign a deal in 2009 (3 years after the Mig-29K deal) to buy the old R-77s, knowing very well the problems associated with it?
    To me, it looks like the IN and MoD had no long term plans, but were pulling stuff out of their ass to solve upcoming issues - This is how it went!

    Play: IN and MoD goes to buy an Aircraft Carrier!
    Scene 1, Act 1.

    IN: We need a carrier -
    MoD: Really? That's great - the Russians are offering one for FREE.
    IN: let's get that! Can we get it? Please please please?
    MoD: OK sure - only if you promise to use it professionally. OK?
    IN: Yes yes yes - we promise!
    Russia: Hey - the carrier is free, but you have to refurbish it for $2 Billions!
    MoD: Ohhh - let us think about it!
    IN: Ohhh - that sucks - does it mean we cannot have planes for it? What is a carrier without planes? Can we get some? please please please!
    MoD: OK - (to Russia) - so what about planes? Can we buy some from you? Or else we will have to go the French or the American shops ...
    Russia: Sure you can buy some. Look, we have TWO! You can have toe Su-33 - old and obsolete but tested or the Mig-29K - new, shiny, but untested.
    MoD: (to IN) So, which one do you want dear?
    IN: The new one! the new one! can we have that? Please please please!
    MoD: OK - let's see how much they are.
    Russia: Ohh they are another 2 billion dollars - but for you we will make it one package and give you 20% off!
    MoD: Great! We will take it!
    [End Scene 1, Act 1]
     
  16. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    ^^ Were you recording these conversations? :lol: It is about as professional as this procurement process has been carried out. I think the only nation worse at procurement is the UK, they can't even afford what they buy and end up writing off 12 billion quid. :laugh:
     
  17. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Weapons could have been part of the deal with delivery deferred till the carrier came. Not having weapons deal makes no sense. When will the talks on weapons purchase start and when will it actually get delivered? For all we know the fighters will be on the carrier carrying duds to practice and nothing in store to fire at the enemy.
     
  18. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    If the weapons were deferred for that reason, why wouldn't MoD have told CAG that is why?
     
  19. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    The whole deal has gone through a lot of changes and ups and downs , the initial agreements have been altered and what was planned is now delayed yet the move to buy migs without weapons is best , Navy got inspired by the IAF in trying to customize its own weapons systems from israel and other nations, not a bad ploy.

    Secondly the idea about not telling CAG is due to the complex nature of the deal , we hear major details and papers but from 1996 till today this deal is shrouded in clouds, there is something which the navy does not want to divulge , it might be something positive or might be something negative
     
  20. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    ^^ Maybe IAF don't want shitty R-77s.
     
  21. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    Or might be separate purchase = New deal = more kickbacks
     

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