C-17 Globemaster III (IAF)

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by A.V., Jun 15, 2009.

  1. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    By Gulshan Luthra
    New Delhi, June 14 (IANS) The Indian Air Force (IAF) has shortlisted the Boeing C-17 Globemaster III as its new Very Heavy Lift Transport Aircraft (VHTAC).

    Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik is quoted by the India Strategic defence magazine as saying that the aircraft had been chosen after a thorough study because of its capability to take off and land on short runways with heavy loads, long range, and ease of operation.

    IAF was looking at acquiring ten C-17s initially through the US government’s Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route, and a proposal in this regard was being considered by the Ministry of Defence (MoD), he said adding that the aircraft should come in about three years after a contract is signed.

    The air chief, who spoke to India Strategic on the eve of the Paris Air Show beginning Monday, is also quoted as saying in its report that flight trials for the six Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCAs) would begin in July and end around March 2010. The chosen MMRCA should start coming to India by 2014.

    Outlining the trial procedure, Air Chief Marshal Naik said that initially, test pilots from IAF’s elite Bangalore-based Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment (ASTE) would visit the manufacturing facilities of the six contenders; in the second round, they would test the aircraft’s performance in humid, hot and cold weather in Bangalore, Jaisalmer and Leh; and in the third and final round, they would test live precision weapon firings from the aircraft in the country of their manufacturer or another country designated by them.

    “There would be one team leader but two or three sub-teams, and the template would be common for all,” he was quoted as saying.

    The six aircraft in the fray are European EADS Eurofighter, US Lockheed Martin F-16 Viper and Boeing F-18 Super Hornet, French Rafale, Swedish Gripen and Russian Mig 35. One of them would be chosen to supply 126 aircraft worth about $10 billion, but the order could go up by another 50 per cent to 189 aircraft, a clause for which is built in the tender (Request for Proposal or RfP) issued last year. The interview report has been published in the June edition of India Strategic, being released at the Paris Air Show.

    Notably, except for the Su30-MKI, all the combat and transport aircraft of the IAF were acquired in the 1980s, and IAF needs new, and newer generation, aircraft to replace and augment that capacity.

    India has about 100-plus medium An-32 and less than 20 heavy lift IL-76 aircraft. It is difficult to get their spares as the Soviet Union where they were made has disintegrated into Russia and other states. IAF has acquired old, refurbished IL-76 platforms for its AWACS and Midair Refueler requirements.

    An agreement was being signed with Ukraine to upgrade and modernize the An-32s, the Air Chief said.

    An IL-76 can carry a cargo of around 45 tonnes and has a crew of six while a C-17 can carry 70 tonnes, and is much easier to operate with a small crew of two pilots and one loadmaster (total three), thanks to its various power-assisted systems. Two observers though can also be seated.

    Despite its massive size - 174 ft length, 55 ft height and about 170 ft wingspan - a pilot can fly the C-17 with a simple joystick, much like a fighter aircraft, which can be lifesaving in a battlezone as the aircraft can take off quickly and at steep angles. It is powered by four Pratt & Whitney F-117-PW-100 turbofan engines.

    Air Chief Marshal Naik said that IAF required contemporary and futuristic aircraft and systems, and that there was an urgency to acquire modern aircraft. The government shared the concern of the armed forces, and the pace to renew IAF’s assets was on schedule. By 2020-25, IAF would achieve its optimum level (of 45 squadrons).

    At present, it is down from its sanctioned strength of 39.5 squadron to around 30-32, but this trend has been arrested, particularly with the induction of more Su30-MKIs and Jaguars. India has given a repeat order of 40 Su30-MKIs to Russia to take their total number to 230.

    The requirement today is for technologically better, easier to maintain, and a larger number of combat and other aircraft, including helicopters, due to the strategic scenario around India and the need to ferry troops, men and material even within India in times of contingency and natural disasters.

    He observed: “The IAF of the future, post-2025, would consist of FGFA (Fith Generation Fighter Aircraft), Su30-MKIs, MRCAs and Tejas/MCA (indigenous Medium Combat Aircraft) with multi-role as well as significant swing role capability.”

    “They would employ advanced technologies, sensors and precision weapons. The larger aircraft, i.e. FGFA and Su30 would focus on Air Dominance and specialise in similar roles in long ranges over land and sea, while the MRCAs would don a variety of medium-range and tactical roles. These assets would be capable of all weather, day and night attack with adequate self-protection capability… these assets would be immensely capable and are not going to be confined to the strictly stereotyped roles. They would carry out a number of roles in the same mission.”

    Air Chief Marshal Naik, who assumed charge May 31 from Air Chief Marshal F.H. Major, would be visiting the Paris Air Show along with top IAF officers to witness what new technologies are being introduced and displayed there by various aircraft manufacturers.

    The Air Chief said that IAF was also looking at more AWACS but after studying how the first lot of three Phalcon AWACS functions. The first of these aircraft was delivered last month, and the remaining two would be delivered by Israel in 2010.

    He indicated that IAF had short-listed the Airbus A330 MRTT to augment its Midair Refueller requirement, and that the proposal was being processed by the Ministry of Defence. IAF already has six IL-76-based aerial refuellers, designated as IL-78.

    As for the C-17, Boeing has brought the aircraft several times to India for its literal catwalk on IAF tarmacs, including at the Aero India 2007 and 2009 in Bangalore. Indian military officials and journalists have been invited for the aircraft’s flight displays during the Paris Air Show.

    The C-17 is the mainstay of the US forces for worldwide deployment, and can be refuelled midair. It is in fact the lifeline of US and NATO troops deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    According to the Boeing company, the high-wing, 4-engine, multi-service T-tailed military-transport C-17 can carry large equipment including tanks, supplies and troops directly to small airfields in harsh terrain anywhere in the world day or night.

    The massive, sturdy, long-haul aircraft tackles distance, destination and heavy, oversized payloads in unpredictable conditions. It has delivered cargo in every worldwide operation since the 1990s. It can take off from a 7,600-ft airfield, carry a payload of 160,000 pounds, fly 2,400 nautical miles, refuel while in flight for longer range, and land in 3,000 ft or less on a small unpaved or paved airfield day or night.

    The aircraft can also be used as an aerial ambulance.

    IAF chooses Boeing’s latest C-17 for heavy-lift transport aircraft
     
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  3. F-14

    F-14 Global Defence Moderator Senior Member

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  4. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Great choice this. The Russians dont have an comparable aircraft, atleast capacity wise and capability wise, so they will have no reason to sulk. But if this deal goes through, it will only confirm and consolidate a US tilt in Indian forces as far as their weapons purchases are concerned.
     
  5. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    End User Verification is the hurdle.

    C 17 is ideal for our requirement.

    It appears to be a better choice, at least in payload, than the IL 76.

    The only issue is that US equipment has always been sophisticated and delicate.

    The Russian aircraft are fuel guzzlers!
     
  6. 1.44

    1.44 Member of The Month SEPTEMBER 2009 Senior Member

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    Great choice.though we'll need more than ten to strengthen our heavy lift and deployment capability
     
  7. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    here is an amazing picture of the c-17 globemaster-ii
    after the c-130 this is another great addition with the medium transport aircraft project on the wheels with russia this should be a very good step forward but as ray sir pointed out india needs to do something seriously with the end user verification.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Soham

    Soham DFI TEAM Senior Member

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    So we are going the yankee way. Its got a very impressive load-carrying capacity, wonder what are the usual strings attached...

    Moscow is going to be real unhappy at this. :D
     
  9. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    The End User Agreement issue is being sorted out. Just like the US bent backwards to accommodate us for the nuke deal, it will do so for weapons as well. It needs to run its military production industry and needs orders from newer market that have the money to spend on it. Its allies in the west are now looking after their own industry rather than buy from the US these days.

    If the US was that concerned about End User verification, it would have never sold any weapons to Pakistan which invariably ends up with the Chinese having a clone of it.
    The EUA is just an irritant which will be dealt accordingly.
     
  10. F-14

    F-14 Global Defence Moderator Senior Member

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    the Resons why Non USAF users Bought the C-17

    RAAF

     
  11. jackprince

    jackprince Turning into a frog Senior Member

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    Harpoon Missile = $170 million
    C-130J = $596 million
    P-8I Poseidon = $2.1 billion
    Now C-17 Globemaster III = approx $ 2 billion min. ( according to Wikipedia unit price is $218 Million )

    India seems to be getting real cozy with USA. Russia needs to fund more in in it's R&D if it doesn't wanna lose more big chunks in future.
     
  12. John

    John Guest

    You forgot almost $375 million for CBU-97/107 SFW

    we also ordered an unknown number of Paveways, 6 Phalcons which would have been impossible to get without US permission, IAI Harpy also we got with US permission.
     
  13. 1.44

    1.44 Member of The Month SEPTEMBER 2009 Senior Member

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    Russkies must be Pi$$ed
     
  14. rock45

    rock45 Founding Member/ RIP our friend

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    Russians

    In the end the Russians only have themselves to blame look at the Il-76/78 series. Losing those sales to China a few years back was huge, follow up orders lost, and long tern spare parts and service contracts as well.

    Another poster mentioned Russia's R&D this hits the nail in the head perfectly, Russia has falling way behind. I can't think of the name of it but didn't Russia offer India to be part of some transport or maybe cargo jet project? A seven or eight project what are they inventing the wheel or something? Being an outsider not Indian or Russian sometimes I think Russia drags down India.

    I use to know a C-17 pilot in a forum that closed now and let me tell that aircraft was amazing. I'm not really into transport that much really I know how important they are but they don't grab my attention the C-17 III is different.

    India pilots and your maintenance personnel are going to love your P-8, C-130s and maybe C-17s compared to Russian made gear. I know it costs a lot more but western tech compared to Russian is like when India bought the Mirage 2000 vs the Mig-29. My first internet friend was a Indian who help write and support the history section on Indian's most known military sites and he told me of the stories of the Mig-29s, and what India had to go through.
     
  15. John

    John Guest

    roger that, i think we need at least 30 to 50 of these.
     
  16. vijaytripoli

    vijaytripoli Regular Member

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    i am happy regarding C-17 deal but RUSSIAN factor making me feal worry.
    i don,t know that how they will reply ? may be by supplying more advance weapons to China!
    chau
     
  17. John

    John Guest

    they wont reply much they can't because we still have a lot of buys from Russia including ships, future aircraft, MTA etc. They have to learn to share the pie.
     
  18. youngindian

    youngindian Senior Member Senior Member

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    good decision but expensive .boeing is marketing aggresively to india now it seem like ch47,ah64d apache longbow and f18 now on list
     
  19. John

    John Guest

    C-17 is cheaper and can carry more than the A-400M, the C-5 galaxy is however even cheaper but way too big a target. Apache will win because it comes in block-3 version, can control upto 3 UAVS and has a altitude max. ceiling which is over 4000ft higher than the nearest competition. Chinook will also win because the mi-26 is old, lacks spares and also way too big a target. F-18SH also has an advantage. now if Boeing indeed offers the KC777 for the KC deal in the US, well the A-330 will loose the tanker deal and India too many order the KC777 instead of the A-330. KC777 can deliver more fuel at much longer ranges and is more fuel efficient. Boeing if they move fast and lobby hard with the US govt. to clear sales without many strings is bound to win a lot of serious contracts. Imagine a 787 Phalcon, sure beats the IL-78 phalcon in range and fuel efficiency.
     
  20. Sridhar

    Sridhar House keeper Moderator

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    IAF chooses Boeing’s latest C-17 for heavy-lift transport aircraft

    BY :IANS

    The Indian Air Force (IAF) has shortlisted the Boeing C-17 Globemaster III as its new Very Heavy Lift Transport Aircraft (VHTAC).

    Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik is quoted by the India Strategic defence magazine as saying that the aircraft had been chosen after a thorough study because of its capability to take off and land on short runways with heavy loads, long range, and ease of operation.

    IAF was looking at acquiring ten C-17s initially through the US government’s Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route, and a proposal in this regard was being considered by the Ministry of Defence (MoD), he said adding that the aircraft should come in about three years after a contract is signed.

    The air chief, who spoke to India Strategic on the eve of the Paris Air Show beginning Monday, is also quoted as saying in its report that flight trials for the six Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCAs) would begin in July and end around March 2010. The chosen MMRCA should start coming to India by 2014.

    Outlining the trial procedure, Air Chief Marshal Naik said that initially, test pilots from IAF’s elite Bangalore-based Aircraft and Systems Testing Establishment (ASTE) would visit the manufacturing facilities of the six contenders; in the second round, they would test the aircraft’s performance in humid, hot and cold weather in Bangalore, Jaisalmer and Leh; and in the third and final round, they would test live precision weapon firings from the aircraft in the country of their manufacturer or another country designated by them.

    “There would be one team leader but two or three sub-teams, and the template would be common for all,” he was quoted as saying.

    The six aircraft in the fray are European EADS Eurofighter, US Lockheed Martin F-16 Viper and Boeing F-18 Super Hornet, French Rafale, Swedish Gripen and Russian Mig 35. One of them would be chosen to supply 126 aircraft worth about $10 billion, but the order could go up by another 50 per cent to 189 aircraft, a clause for which is built in the tender (Request for Proposal or RfP) issued last year. The interview report has been published in the June edition of India Strategic, being released at the Paris Air Show.

    Notably, except for the Su30-MKI, all the combat and transport aircraft of the IAF were acquired in the 1980s, and IAF needs new, and newer generation, aircraft to replace and augment that capacity.

    India has about 100-plus medium An-32 and less than 20 heavy lift IL-76 aircraft. It is difficult to get their spares as the Soviet Union where they were made has disintegrated into Russia and other states. IAF has acquired old, refurbished IL-76 platforms for its AWACS and Midair Refueler requirements.

    An agreement was being signed with Ukraine to upgrade and modernize the An-32s, the Air Chief said.

    An IL-76 can carry a cargo of around 45 tonnes and has a crew of six while a C-17 can carry 70 tonnes, and is much easier to operate with a small crew of two pilots and one loadmaster (total three), thanks to its various power-assisted systems. Two observers though can also be seated.

    Despite its massive size – 174 ft length, 55 ft height and about 170 ft wingspan – a pilot can fly the C-17 with a simple joystick, much like a fighter aircraft, which can be lifesaving in a battlezone as the aircraft can take off quickly and at steep angles. It is powered by four Pratt & Whitney F-117-PW-100 turbofan engines.

    Air Chief Marshal Naik said that IAF required contemporary and futuristic aircraft and systems, and that there was an urgency to acquire modern aircraft. The government shared the concern of the armed forces, and the pace to renew IAF’s assets was on schedule. By 2020-25, IAF would achieve its optimum level (of 45 squadrons).

    At present, it is down from its sanctioned strength of 39.5 squadron to around 30-32, but this trend has been arrested, particularly with the induction of more Su30-MKIs and Jaguars. India has given a repeat order of 40 Su30-MKIs to Russia to take their total number to 230.

    The requirement today is for technologically better, easier to maintain, and a larger number of combat and other aircraft, including helicopters, due to the strategic scenario around India and the need to ferry troops, men and material even within India in times of contingency and natural disasters.

    He observed: “The IAF of the future, post-2025, would consist of FGFA (Fith Generation Fighter Aircraft), Su30-MKIs, MRCAs and Tejas/MCA (indigenous Medium Combat Aircraft) with multi-role as well as significant swing role capability.”

    “They would employ advanced technologies, sensors and precision weapons. The larger aircraft, i.e. FGFA and Su30 would focus on Air Dominance and specialise in similar roles in long ranges over land and sea, while the MRCAs would don a variety of medium-range and tactical roles. These assets would be capable of all weather, day and night attack with adequate self-protection capability… these assets would be immensely capable and are not going to be confined to the strictly stereotyped roles. They would carry out a number of roles in the same mission.”

    Air Chief Marshal Naik, who assumed charge May 31 from Air Chief Marshal F.H. Major, would be visiting the Paris Air Show along with top IAF officers to witness what new technologies are being introduced and displayed there by various aircraft manufacturers.

    The Air Chief said that IAF was also looking at more AWACS but after studying how the first lot of three Phalcon AWACS functions. The first of these aircraft was delivered last month, and the remaining two would be delivered by Israel in 2010.

    He indicated that IAF had short-listed the Airbus A330 MRTT to augment its Midair Refueller requirement, and that the proposal was being processed by the Ministry of Defence. IAF already has six IL-76-based aerial refuellers, designated as IL-78.

    As for the C-17, Boeing has brought the aircraft several times to India for its literal catwalk on IAF tarmacs, including at the Aero India 2007 and 2009 in Bangalore. Indian military officials and journalists have been invited for the aircraft’s flight displays during the Paris Air Show.

    The C-17 is the mainstay of the US forces for worldwide deployment, and can be refuelled midair. It is in fact the lifeline of US and NATO troops deployed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    According to the Boeing company, the high-wing, 4-engine, multi-service T-tailed military-transport C-17 can carry large equipment including tanks, supplies and troops directly to small airfields in harsh terrain anywhere in the world day or night.

    The massive, sturdy, long-haul aircraft tackles distance, destination and heavy, oversized payloads in unpredictable conditions. It has delivered cargo in every worldwide operation since the 1990s. It can take off from a 7,600-ft airfield, carry a payload of 160,000 pounds, fly 2,400 nautical miles, refuel while in flight for longer range, and land in 3,000 ft or less on a small unpaved or paved airfield day or night.

    IDRW.ORG Blog Archive IAF chooses Boeing?s latest C-17 for heavy-lift transport aircraft
     
  21. A.V.

    A.V. New Member

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    the problem is russia would surely mind but if you read the report correctly the choice is not yet made IAF has just shortlisted and made its choice public the deal is not yet signed and further formalities are yet to be done also russia would think twice because the production line for indian supplies are full till 2020 so noway they can supply anything quickly and on time so i think IAF has made an excellent choice the next job would be for the PR guys to explain the situation with the russian officials and i think surely they can make this work
     

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