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@JAYATLPaki fan boy in mickey mouse drab! lol
Personalising things is not well within the decorum of HEALTHY discussions.kindly refraining from doing so if not this will be reported to MODS.
@JAYATLPaki fan boy in mickey mouse drab! lol
simple question- can you ltell me what my position is on the issue and on which border?We Have enough Anti India Elements traversing International Borders to INDIA by any crook methods,And I believe if its an Unauthorised entry,theres no harm in using Firearms to incapacitate these elements.WE dont need anymore AJMAL kasabs entries to reinforce this policy.If we go by the redtape methods to stop these elements,the BSF would be helpless in doing so.The illegal tresspassing was so high that the National policy of fencing got intiated in late 1990s west and east borders.
These people are deliberately doing so to achive their objectives.The Guarding force in the border has every right to exercis their availabe options to restrain them.I hv read 3 months ago - a pakistan teenager was also been apprehended by BSF And sent back to PAK authorities after verifying the identity and his plans.Howvere it may not happen or expected to happen evry time as ,differentiating these elemnt's objectives is not Guarding force's primary motto.
If shot at you shoot back in self defense, you don't wear mickey mouse ears and squeal like one .
Gentlemen (and I am addressing you as gentlemen because I believe both of you are gentlemen but have just lost your cool for the moment; don't prove me wrong), please avoid using ad hominem attacks and non sequiturs against each other. The way we treat each other reflects upon us and this forum is accessible by people the world over. I have quoted just two examples above.I know it will be hard for a sham Vice President of an MNC, who earns more than 6 Crores (according to him) to understand and measure his own words.
guess what, there is no distance between your position and mine. i have no issues or qualms with what the BSF did in this article. in fact if you read my very first post...it's been my stance from the get go.If I may, I'll present my humble perspective here:
- I would have sympathy for the dead Bangladeshi teenagers if they were trying to live in India to earn a livelihood after having illegally entered India and were shot dead somewhere not near the international border. No, such people deserve to be deported, but they also deserve the right to live.
- I am afraid I cannot display much sympathy here simply because these illegal immigrants were trying to cross the international border, that too into Pakistan. Being from Bangladesh, having crossed the entire east west expanse in India, they reached Punjab and were trying to enter Pakistan. Why?
- What if the BSF failed to apprehend these Bangladeshis and they successfully exfiltrated to Pakistan and then two months down the line these very people re-entered Mumbai in rubber boats to murder 250 people? We would be the first ones to hurl abuses on the BSF.
Even in the past I have criticised some BSF personnel for taking bribes and facilitating illegal cross border trade and human trafficking. Now, I must commend those BSF personnel for doing what they are getting paid for.
I don't support killing and violence either, but if given only the two options of the (1) possibility of death to foreigners against the (2) possibility of death to Indians, I would rather chose the former even if it slightly reduces the possibility of an attack on India and/or Indians.
I'm of two minds here:
1. If there are signs that clearly state , especially on this volatile side of the border ( not the bangla side)- stating don't attempt to cross or you will be shot- then this is a sad but expected incident.
2. I still feel that on the bangla side the shoot to kill anyone , is way overboard and inhumane. That side of the border seems to be more about illegal immigration than terrorist. I think the orders on the bangla side should be - if identified or reasonably suspected as a terrorist then shoot to kill- personally I would assume that by giving the terrorist a chance to give up- nothing like gleaming information off them .. If not identified as a terrorist, then arrest , detain, deport.
Those images of a teenage girl hanging on the barb wire and shot won't get nothing but bad PR and image of India, period. Same girl on the US border would have been arrested once she crossed over). if they border police had shot her - they would have been thrown in Jail. And have been in the past.
Point is- you can't lose your basic sense of civility , what the country was established upon , in the face of terrorist acts. otherwise those terrorist have won. HOWEVER_That does not mean ' open borders' or being stupid regarding security. But it also does not mean going overboard in the opposite direction.
I suppose the great U.S. would find it more humane to carpet bomb millions of civilians into submission, as they did in Vietnam, Yugoslavia, Iraq, etc. etc.? After all, the "great freedom-fighting heroes" flying the B-2s don't actually see the people they kill, do they?the great evil US won't shoot to kill ALL on sight. period.
I do agree the fact that Force's internal Health need to be supervised and to be reformed .And its true Bribery/human trafficking have been assisted by border forces to a small extent.If I may, I'll present my humble perspective here:
- I would have sympathy for the dead Bangladeshi teenagers if they were trying to live in India to earn a livelihood after having illegally entered India and were shot dead somewhere not near the international border. No, such people deserve to be deported, but they also deserve the right to live.
- I am afraid I cannot display much sympathy here simply because these illegal immigrants were trying to cross the international border, that too into Pakistan. Being from Bangladesh, having crossed the entire east west expanse in India, they reached Punjab and were trying to enter Pakistan. Why?
- What if the BSF failed to apprehend these Bangladeshis and they successfully exfiltrated to Pakistan and then two months down the line these very people re-entered Mumbai in rubber boats to murder 250 people? We would be the first ones to hurl abuses on the BSF.
Even in the past I have criticised some BSF personnel for taking bribes and facilitating illegal cross border trade and human trafficking. Now, I must commend those BSF personnel for doing what they are getting paid for.
I don't support killing and violence either, but if given only the two options of the (1) possibility of death to foreigners against the (2) possibility of death to Indians, I would rather chose the former even if it slightly reduces the possibility of an attack on India and/or Indians.
it maybe if i was trying to do that. if you had and I don't particularly blame you for not going through 5 pages of comments -- but if you would have , you would have seen that I was adding that piece to a question that was raised several times regrading Us not having as a much as a stake on it's borders.However, the fact that you are trying to criticize the "humaneness" of the BSF's policy while trying to show the US as a great "humane" nation, is not normal. It is downright hilarious
you are trying to make analogy of US or western style Border policy making into Indian border managment system which cannot be equated as theres a lot of glaring disparities for both countries style of running.simple question- can you ltell me what my position is on the issue and on which border?
You know the ones who support that bombing , who they are? They are George Bush/ Republican/ Neo con crowd. the heritage foundation crowd etc etc.. it's not main stream , it a minority and i assure you they are " not way too many people".^^ Good point. The US never lets human rights come in the way of their own evaluation of their threat perspectives. There are way too many people who justify the nuclear bomb attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki claiming that helped end WWII. For us Indians, we should do what we feel is right for our safety. Our own safety comes first.
nope wrong. how did you comment without knowing what my stance was?you are trying to make analogy of US or western style Border policy making into Indian border managment system which cannot be equated as theres a lot of glaring disparities for both countries style of running.
Which state do you live in? I live in North Carolina and have visited most of the 'Conservative South'. I'm afraid I cannot agree with you w.r.t the places I have been to.You know the ones who support that bombing , who they are? They are George Bush/ Republican/ Neo con crowd. the heritage foundation crowd etc etc.. it's not main stream , it a minority and i assure you they are " not way too many people".
I wasn't aware about that. It is really concerning. Even a civilian needs minimum 6 to 7 hours sleep. For the BSF, 7 hours is the bare minimum. Should have been done long back.However we must understand the fact this force has been overused in inhospitable terrains /with no proper REST allocation hours(which they amended 2 months ago-MANDATORY seven hours of rest ) is expected to perform in more humane way to the elements with all sorts of anti-national objectives trying to do unauthorised entry to create unrest in the Country.
nope wrong. how did you comment without knowing what my stance was?
yes Its true Mr Maitra.This happened 2 months back only- finally implemented by DGP Mr RAMAN SRIVASTAVA.I wasn't aware about that. It is really concerning. Even a civilian needs minimum 6 to 7 hours sleep. For the BSF, 7 hours is the bare minimum. Should have been done long back.
I wasn't aware about that. It is really concerning. Even a civilian needs minimum 6 to 7 hours sleep. For the BSF, 7 hours is the bare minimum. Should have been done long back.
I thought BSF was supposed to be a "paramilitary" organization? It sounds like the jawans there have it worse than the IA.pmaitra, you have no idea. Long arduous marches, rigorous training regimens and until recently, lack of proper, basic equipment. You haven't seen suffering, until you've seen it @ the BSF.
They have it worse because they are a "paramilitary" organization. Long, rigorous regimes, with little or no rest. Coupled with the detritus of equipment from the Armed forces' modernization programs. It's not too far from the truth, when they say, the men in the Indian Armed forces are among the best.I thought BSF was supposed to be a "paramilitary" organization? It sounds like the jawans there have it worse than the IA.
WHY? Because you are freaking quoting me in your earlier response, LOL. DUH!- if you quote me then at least know my damn stance eh?
First of all -Why should I need to know your STANCE?
WRONG AGAIN! Posthumously wrong, fantastically wrong! you could be any more wrong if the word wrong was created to describe you! in fact so wrong and so absurdly daft that I almost jumped out of my seat .Secondly IF NEED BE-All along you were trying to infuse the perception THAT- Border managemnt system need to be more humane way where the tresspassers need to be handled sensitively even If they carry bombs or milkpowder by the BSF.