BSF may have tortured villagers for vendetta

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by neo29, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. neo29

    neo29 Senior Member Senior Member

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    RAIPUR: The allegations of torture of villagers by the BSF brought the chairperson of Chhattisgarh Commission for Scheduled Castes and Tribes on a visit to Kanker. Deolal Dugga, who heads the body, could not reach the villages but he held a public hearing in Durgkondal town.

    "It appears some injustice may have been done to the villagers. Since a Naxal attack took place in the area recently, perhaps the security forces acted on a feeling of vendetta," said Dugga, who heads the state body meant to safeguard the rights of dalit and tribal communities.

    Dugga's visit is widely seen as a move to limit damage in a politically sensitive area. Scattered with colonies for Bengali refugees resettled here in the 1970s, and not far from Maharashtra, the Pakhanjur area of Kanker district has a distinct milieu. It's less remote than other parts of Bastar. The adivasis here appear more literate and aware, compared to the other conflict affected pockets in Dantewada or Bijapur.

    The police claim some parts of it are heavily influenced by Naxals, in particular, the villages that have alleged torture. "These villages, Panchangi and Aalor, have supported and fed the Naxals. In fact, we have information the Naxals halted here for the night prior to the attack," said Kanker SP Ajay Yadav. He claimed the Badgaon-Pakhanjur stretch is the focal point of Maoist activity, with most violent incidents taking place here.

    The BSF was deployed here in Nov last year. The ambush on August 29 was the first time it suffered casualties. Exactly a week later, villagers allege, BSF men showed up, along with the police; they beat up men, molested two girls, and took several people away. Five men landed in the hospital with serious injuries. Others, taken to a camp, were allegedly administered electric shocks.

    The BSF responded promptly to these allegations. Senior officers visited the district hospital where the men were recuperating. But privately some voiced concerns that the charges against the force could be "exaggerated or fake, intended to preempt any future crackdown against Maoists"

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/BSF-may-have-tortured-villagers-for-vendetta/articleshow/6550270.cms
     
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  3. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    So now we see BSF bashing. One should look at the pictures of the carnage caused by Maoists in the last couple of years and then judge.

    I, for one, am not in favour of taking things on face value. I wonder whether these allegations are true or are being forced from the villagers by the Maoists.

    In any event, these places are war-zones and there is bound to be collateral damage. As much as I regret loss of innocent lives, but freedom is never awarded on a silver platter, it has to be earned through sweat, blood and tears.
     
  4. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I am sure that the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC) can look into the same.

    However, what is important that there must be a mechanism in the law where false and frivolous charges should invite punishment.

    Too many times frivolous complaints are made. Once investigated by the NHRC and it turns out so, nothing happens to those who raise such frivolous complaints.
     
  5. jatkshatriya

    jatkshatriya Regular Member

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    Who ever started this thread .....man comone...in a DFI thread people now want BSF to be criticised who are sacrificing their lives so that people like such can start threads sitting on their PCS criticising them..India is great.....oh dear motherland, cradle of civilisation...hope BSF protects u motherland forever and ever..and if they need to take some harsh steps ..then they do to protect u oh motherland who protected every major and minor religion in ur womb without any prejudice, who fed black and white and yellow men without seeing their skin colour.....who thought the world the meaning of tolerance..oh dear motherland..God bless u and God bless BSF
     
  6. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    This is how Maoists get free publicity and more help from Villagers. they go on more wild and start attacking more soldiers.........
     
  7. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    i have already posted this thread in a small post so that this shouldnt become major discussion...
     
  8. roach

    roach Regular Member

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    So are you trying to say that even if the BSF tortures innocent people, it should be swept under the carpet in the name of Patriotism? We shouldn't criticize anything they do?
     
  9. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Torture is not acceptable by the very organisations being accused i.e. the BSF or the Army.

    It would be totally a canard to believe that these organisation take the cover of 'national security' to sweep anything under the carpet.

    It must be understood, under no circumstances, these organisation wants to alienate the people by unconstitutional means, since it only makes the job difficult.

    These organisation themselves take harsh action when any odd fish takes law into his own hands.

    Then there is the Human Rights Commission!

    These organisations are as patriotic as those claiming to be patriotic, but then they also know when to draw the line.

    That is why the still survive to do their job even in very difficult and trying circumstances.

    It is patriotic to ensure bad hats do not sully the good work that their organisations are doing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2010
  10. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Why ? we need relevant articles and topics like these. Enough with the stupid religious nut job articles. We are DFI we discuss Armed Forces and its affairs not Hadiths and Vyakhyas.
     
  11. roach

    roach Regular Member

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    By all accounts, we need the paramilitary forces to exercise extreme constraint in the most trying circumstances, be it in Kashmir or Chattisgarh. Heavy-handed behavior will merely make their job harder in the long run by alienating more locals and providing support for militants. Not an easy task, admitted, but there's no other way out.
     
  12. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    If one is to take the worldwide general record of low grade conflict areas rife with insurgencies and destitution and where there's a standoff with a large organized military, the allegations of torture seem quite probable. But we already know this. The Indian army itself has ample evidence indicating that long periods of military presence leads to insurmountable human rights violations (That a lot of these areas are devoid of humanity just makes it all the worse).

    Clearly a change in tack is required here. The Indian government and its armed apparatus cannot operate as they used to in the decades past when dealing with insurgencies. Globalization has raised India's profile immensely and elevated it to a level where the specter of a brutal insurgency suppression would be devastating to her interests and considered downright unacceptable. Furthermore the proliferation of modern media tools has upped the ante and made it impossible to maintain discretion. In short, the current system simply cannot work.

    India's hinterlands are some of the worst places on the planet and this is directly reflected in its human development indices. The decrepit nature of this area is in large part due to outright exploitation which is abetted either directly or indirectly by the Government of India. Unlike many other seemingly intractable conflicts fueled by religious fervor or ethnic strife, this one has more to do with economic opportunity and fundamental human rights.

    Unlike the past, India now has the tools to explore alternatives. Instead of suppressing insurgencies through military means, they can be quelled by removing its source of fuel, in this case government approved exploitation and lack of basic social programs. There is absolutely nothing stopping the Indian government from achieving this other than corruption and casteism.
     
  13. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Agree. However, humans need to be treated in a humane manner. How about animals called homo sapiens? Being a homo sapiens, does not necessarily make one a human. People who engage in violence, defy law and order, murder, loot, burn down buiildings and challenge the Constitution of India in favour of anarchy, are not humans per se and hence talking about human rights violations is rather redundant. I would be a little more objective. However, the above quoted comments are pretty good from the emotional point of view. No offense, they make no sense to me.

    People who provide shelter to insurgents can be and by right, must be accused of abetment of murder and/or attempted murder; classified as combatants and/or collaborators of combatants and be treated as per the provisions of the law, be it normal civil law, Disturbed Areas Act, AFSPA etc..

    Totally agree. the current system cannot work. We need to reign in the Press (although I am not in support of censored Media) for the time being till things settle down. This very approach worked wonders in Chechnya.

    Although plausible, I don't think Government of India is entirely to blame. If there is mining and industries in tribal dominated regions, the tribals will without a doubt benefit, both directly and indirectly. There will be increase in their per capita income and they will be more prosperous.

    Not a very sound analogy IMHO. Maoists have always had plans to geographically isolate territories, blow up bridges, dig up roads and tamper with railway lines. If there has to be any development, then there should be access to these regions in the first place. Secondly, teachers do not want to go to Tribal areas for the fear of extortion, harassment and even murder. Hence, again, there can be no hope of educational improvement for Tribal children if teachers do not want to go there. Hence, the Tribals will remain uneducated and unqualified and restricted to unskilled labour prospects, and hence, stagnant poverty among Tribals which will be a perfect excuse for Maoists to exploit.
     
  14. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    I have no idea what this means, from a literal point this is a labyrinth of self contradictory statements. I think what you are trying to do is demarcate the line between human and sub human based on the adherence to law and order and the constitution of India. This line of reasoning is categorically flawed for a few reasons:
    1. Law and order simply does not exist in most of these parts
    2. In hostile conflict zones that are effectively occupied by the state's armed forces, most of what goes on is extrajudicial.
    3. The implementation of constitutional rights in the hinterlands of India lies somewhere between pathetic and non existent. In fact based on the social and economic hierarchy of this region one can very successfully argue that the nature of the governance is antithetical to the constitution of India.
    4. There are pockets in more economically advanced states like TN, KA and MH where the constitution is blatantly violated as well.
    If your post is any indication of your "objectivity" I'm not impressed. The section of my post to which you refer is a reiteration of statistically significant direct correlation between long term heavy military deployment and gross human rights violation in conflict zones. I don't know where you saw the "emotion" angle in this, that was certainly not my objective. Regardless, I still stand by the stated fact which forms the basis of my argument that these 'torture claims' are at least in some part bound to be true.

    I don't think anyone is disagreeing with this. It's the extrajudicial murder and torture of innocent individuals that serves as the collateral damage due to the state's heavy handed approach that is the problem. Furthermore, such actions only fuel the insurgency even further.

    India is not Chechnya, or Xinjiang or Sri Lanka. India's marginalized poor may not be afforded any constitutional rights, but this is not the case for its urban centers, where most of the media is based. How is it that you dehumanize violators of law and order and the constitution but have no qualms about violating it yourself?
     
  15. bhogta

    bhogta Regular Member

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    First of all we should wait and see how much truth is there, media and human right group also not a saint, like it or not. In the same time BSF (some officer only ) can be guilty of charge but we can't give verdict here neither we have right nor full information. There is no doubt that our army need our support and its easy to ask a gentlemen behavior from them.

    But think about there situation and some time may they do some wrong with out knowing it is a other issue but knowingly misusing it power for should not be pardon and should be bring to justice. Every situation should be deal in such a manner that neither it down our army moral nor criminal get away.
     
  16. Energon

    Energon DFI stars Stars and Ambassadors

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    You're describing a trickle down effect. Unfortunately the obstruction of this phenomenon is very much at the core of the problem. Mining cartels are almost entirely in cahoots with local governments, that is if they don't hold influential political positions themselves. But let's go beyond overtly ruthless profit intensive industry like mining where corruption is easy. Rural India is for the most part feudal in practice. Upper caste land owners rule with wanton abandon not just on their lands but also through an overwhelming representation and influence in central and local governance (calculated by # of family members with government positions). Lower class political parties (technically a democratic feature along with voting rights) aren't any better. Between these three entities any and all chances of trickle down effects are aborted. Since the poor find their political and societal masters to be virtually one and the same, things like land grabs become a rather easy endeavor. Hence, the masses for the most part exist as bonded labor. Migration to cities of select family members for the sake of remittances isn't an easy endeavor either. Illiteracy and ignorance is exploited by the higher ups to extract rents of all sorts.

    The siphoning of monies designated for social programs aimed at India's poor is probably one of the biggest and longest running scams in modern history. The facade school system is merely one of its many components. What's funny is that the government continues to do this openly to this day. In this case, bureaucracy plays a big part, in addition to political and social predators. This sets off a whole different vicious cycle.

    Banking (a central government entity) has also changed. As capital has left rural India and accumulated in urban centers, unscrupulous moneylenders now find it even easier to assume the role of premier financiers. We all know what comes next.

    I have only presented a simplified generic vignette. The parameters change from region to region due to structural, cultural or environmental factors. The concept however is standard and the effects exacted remain common.

    Bottom line is that structural problems are in a large part responsible for turning large swaths of India into hell on earth for hundreds of millions of people. These cannot be resolved without the government which in turn means the state itself has to change first.

    For one, what I said in my earlier post wasn't an analogy, it was a fairly credible hypothesis. Second, tampering with state assets like railroads, roads, bridges etc. is a standard insurgency tactic. Your explanation for the education crisis is oversimplified. Political will would be more than enough to address the dire situation. Lastly, no offense, but based on what you have written in your post thus far it doesn't seem like you are aware of the actual intricacies of the problem.
     
  17. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Nothing is self contradictory. A person who goes around murdering and pillaging is definitely a species called homo sapiens, but not human. For those people who caused the train derailment in West Bengal and the consequent death of 140+ people are definitely not humans, although they definitely are homo sapiens. However, this is an auxiliary clarification. If you made some attempt to understand what I had originally written, you would have noticed that these "self contradictory statements" are more of a failure on your part to comprehend what I had written than a reality.

    No accusation is bound to be true unless proven. Probabilistically, yes; legally no. Heavy military deployment has followed insurgency, not preceded. Guess what, neither am I impressed by your attempts to insinuate that the security forces are the cause of human rights abuses. You spent a lot of time and effort spent talking about human rights violations. Had you spent even a fraction of your time talking of human rights violations by the insurgent, I would have restrained myself from assuming you were biased.

    For you statistical significance, may I point out that the total number of civilian/CRPF/Police casualties have far exceeded Maoist casualties?

    On the contrary, and quite emphatically, such actions actually result in lasting peace. There is evidence of Naxalite insurgency in North Bengal in the 70s, Kalistan movement in the 80s and LTTE, all defeated by army action. The only thing that fuels insurgency is the preposterous posturing of 'human rights activists' that are shamelessly biased in favour of the insurgents. I repeat again, military presence always follows insurgency; it does not precede.

    Exactly, and that is why people like Yasin Malik, who masterminded the attacks on Kashmiri Pandits in J&K with the objective of achieving certain demographic conditions get police protection, for which Indian Taxpayers have to pay. Nothing really to be proud about the Indian system here.

    Hypothese - yes, credible - not sure, reality - I doubt if at all; won't believe till there is probe and proof.

    Regarding education and the alleged oversimplification, why don't you put forward something that you feel is more complicated and supposedly closer to reality? In fact, do you agree with me or do you disagree? Why? No prima-facie evidence please.

    --

    Please don't make 4 posts to reply to a post.
     
  18. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Hypothese - yes, credible - not sure, reality - I doubt if at all; won't believe till there is probe and proof.

    Regarding education and the alleged oversimplification, why don't you put forward something that you feel is more complicated and supposedly closer to reality? In fact, do you agree with me or do you disagree? Why? No prima-facie evidence please.
     
  19. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Even though i dont like it but i still have to agree. Talks can only happen when other side is interested in it....here talks only happen when other side wants time to regroup.
     
  20. bhogta

    bhogta Regular Member

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    This time you hit the right place. There is no doubt on that. We should give forgiveness to people who can understand it and then use it to join the society. That type people remember us like a nice guy. But if we forgive a wrong person he will misuse it and think we are coward nothing else.
     
  21. sandeepdg

    sandeepdg Senior Member Senior Member

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    It is incidents like these that make the work of these Naxalites all the more easy in influencing tribal people's thinking and their actions, and as well as makes the job of security forces all the more difficult ! Utmost restraint should be exercised especially when you are dependent on the help from the same people whom you are torturing, as any such incident can have serious and bloody blowbacks ! But until, a thorough investigation is carried out, people shouldn't get swayed by the allegations and wait for the truth to be uncovered, only then can a judgement be reached. And if they are guilty, they should face stringent punishment, they don't deserve any sympathy at all. Frankly, from what I have read in the papers, it seriously seems that the BSF men are guilty though.
     

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