British support for Pakistan & Partition of India

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by asingh10, Jan 1, 2016.

  1. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Let us first start by looking at the Aligarh movement of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan who was the renewer of Islamic separatism in the subcontinent which ultimately led to Partition. Many Pakistanis describe him as the original architect of the two nation theory. Here's some background on Sir Syed Ahmed Khan :-

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Some excerpts about him from his speeches and writings highlighting his loyalty towards the British, calling for a joint Christian-Muslim project to subdue heathen Hindus as they worship the same Abrahamic god, Islamo supremacism, desire for separation from Hindus :-

    1.
    The Muslim Dilemma in India by M. R. A. Baig – page 51-52).

    2. In a letter from London dated 15/10/1869 he writes

    Sir Syed Ahmad by Graham pg 183-184.

    3. In a speech in 1884 he said

    Eminent Mussalmans by Natesan pg 32.

    4. To a Punjabi Hindu audience he said that every inhabitant of Hindusthan is a Hindu and added “I am therefore sorry that you do not regard me as Hindu”. India Divided by Rajendra Prasad pg 99.

    5. But some of his utterances reflect a different mindset. As far as 1858 he deplored the fact that Hindus and Muslims, were put into the same regiment of the British army, and thus a feeling of friendship and brotherhood sprang between them. He added “If separate regiments of Hindus and Muslims had been raised, this feeling of brotherhood could not have arisen”. Causes of Indian Revolt pg 54-55.

    6. At a speech at Meerut on 16/03/1888 he refers to the Hindus and Muslims not only as two nations, but as two warring nations who could not lead a common political life if ever the Brits left India. He said,

    Sachin Sen pg 42.

    Does this not reflect the Islamic mindset ? As a community Muslims have not learnt to co-exist with other communities. That is because Islam believes in Dar-ul-Islam, Muslim rule pure and simple. These words were echoed by Islamic writer Rafiq Zakaria in his book The Widening Divide. Unless the Muslim stops drawing pride from the deeds of the Muslim invaders and realizes that he is a Hindu convert, the divide between the two communities might never cease.

    7. In the same 1888 Meerut speech, he says





    Is it possible that Syed Ahmed Khan specifically identifying Bengalis as a danger to Muslim power is rooted in British Raj's irrational contempt for Bengalis ? I see some strong parallels here.





    8. Quoting from Indian Controversies by Arun Shourie pg 112

    9. Quoting from Indian Controversies by Arun Shourie pg 118

    10. As early as 1883, he delivered a long speech deprecating the system of representative institutions for fear that “the larger community would totally derive override the interest of the smaller community”. Coupland II part I pg 154-56. In this speech he harped upon the elements of discord and disunion that divided India. “In one and the same district, said he, the population consists of various creeds and nationalities”. The whole speech is an eloquent plea against Indian nationality and indicates the wide chasm that divided the Hindu and Muslim leaders in their political thought and ideas.

    11.
    Syed Ahmad Khan, Akhari Madamin, pg 46-50. Quoted in Sources of Indian Tradition pp 746-7.

    12. SAK regarded the Congress as inimical to the true interests of the Muslims. He wrote in the Pioneer on 2-3/10/1887 that the parliamentary form of governance “was unsuited to a country containing two or more nations tending to oppress the numerically weaker”. The Development of Indian National Congress by P C Ghosh pg 43C.

    13. During 1988, Tyabji and Hume worked hard to secure SAK ka cooperation. He said

    . Ram Gopal ph 67.

    It may be mentioned that the Muslims of north India agreed with the policy of SAK.

    14. At Lucknow on 28/12/1887, on the eve of the Congress session in Madras he said

    15. There is no doubt that SAK succeed in keeping the bulk of the Muslims away from the Congress. In 1896, Rahimatullah Sayani, a distinguished Muslim, presided over the Congress session. Haji Ismail Khan a friend of SAH suggested to the Congress President that the Congress should pass a resolution to the effect that the Hindus and Muslims should have equal seats in the legislative councils, district boards and municipalities. SAK endorsed it and wrote an article that Muslims could join the Congress only if the Congress agreed to the proposal of Ismail Khan. P C Ghosh.

    16. SAK's biographer, Hali, wrote,

    17. On Hindi, SAK said :- "Urdu was the language of gentry and Hindi that of the vulgar." This evoked hostile remarks from Hindus across the country. Bharatendu Harishchandra's response in his typical acerbic style is worth noting.

    18.
    Islamic Revival in British India by Metcalf, page11

    ibid. page334

    19. His biographer, Hali, wrote,

    20. Quoting from Indian Controversies by Arun Shourie pg 106, SAK believed that

     
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  4. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Discerning ones will realize that this kind of tag teaming between sons of Abraham against Pagans (usually) is not limited to a few isolated cases. Some notable examples of this have been cited on this forum :-

    1. Afghan King Shah Shuja requesting the British to invade Punjab as they worship same God.

    [​IMG]

    2. Christian community of the British India vehemently supported the cause of Pakistan

    http://www.bzu.edu.pk/PJSS/Vol32No22012/Final_PJSS-32-2-12.pdf

    3. Tacit approval and aid of Pak's Hindu genocide in E.Pakistan.

    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...-71-indo-pak-war-soldiers.74437/#post-1111011

    4. Yechury says Marxism is like Islam and Christianity

    http://www.telegraphindia.com/1150524/jsp/nation/story_21820.jsp#.VobmKvkrKV5

    It's happening even today in Indian politics as we speak with Muslim + Christian + Secular vote banks coalescing against BJP. The situation in Kerala and Maoism + NE terrorism (aided by BD + Pak + Church) are perfect example of a pan Abrahamist alliance working together to hurt Hindus. It's happening in UK with alliance of Labor party + British MSM + Pakistanis working to undermine Hindus & Sikhs (check some videos here). A very learned acharya on twitter calls this pan-abrahamistic alliance the
    "mleccha-marunmmata abhisamdhi" (mleccha = white xtian, marunmatta = muslim, abhisamdhi = conspiracy/ collusion/agreement). Here's a good introductory article from him on this subject :-

    https://manasataramgini.wordpress.com/2012/04/01/5030/

    Some more e.g. of alliance in this post :-

    [​IMG]


    Pretacharin = Christian, TSP = Terrorist State of Pakistan.

    Actions of mlechCha-s (White Xtians) have ended up strengthening the marUnmatta-s (Muslims) rather than weakening them :-

    [​IMG]


    So support for Pakistan by West, western indologists whitewashing Islamic marauders, bashing of Hindutva by liberal Western & Indian media, or the deference of Crypto Abrahamistic secular Indian state towards Muslims ("Muslims have the first right towards Indian resources" - ex PM Manmohan Singh) should not just be taken as a geopolitical expediency or some stupid communal-sicukular dialectic but also needs to be looked at in an ideological context. This theory also sheds some light on the ambiguous stance West has taken with respect to mischievous elements in Syria/Iraq (compare outrage on refugees vs deafening silence over genocide of Yazidis and Mandaeans) and the Buddhist-Rohingya civil war in Burma.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2016
  5. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Secret Affairs: Britain's Collusion with Radical Islam by Mark Curtis.

     
  6. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Continuing from post #2, post Aligarh movement and its evolution to Pakistan movement.

    [​IMG]

    Pakistan movement a useful leverage against Hindu nationalists.

    [​IMG]


    From "Secret Affairs: Britain's Collusion with Radical Islam" , by Mark Curtis , page 29
     
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  7. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    British feared loss of political influence in Indian subcontinent as Indian Congress and nationalists were not interested in any military cooperation with Britain post 1947. The state was strategically located close to the site of 19th century great game.

    [​IMG]


    From "Secret Affairs: Britain's Collusion with Radical Islam" , by Mark Curtis , page 30

    Tarek Fatah on the same and how Jinnah was a "kiraye ka aadmi" :-



    Watch from 35:30 onwards to 42:00
     
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  8. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Chruchil changes his stance from "no Indian independence" to favoring "Hindustan, Pakistan, Princestan".

    [​IMG]

    From "Secret Affairs: Britain's Collusion with Radical Islam" , by Mark Curtis , page 30


    Churchil after reading a conservative book that argued for creating a Muslim homeland before British quit - "I agree with the book's conclusion - Pakistan"

    [​IMG]

    Indian Summer: The Secret History of the End of an Empire By Alex von Tunzelmann


    Post 47 Churchil continues to bat for Pakistan and Muslims

    [​IMG]

    The celebrated British prime minister allegedly a strong admirer of Islam :-

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...-family-feared-he-might-convert-to-Islam.html

    While for Hindus he said “I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion. The famine was their own fault for breeding like rabbits.” when asked about the Bengal famine of 1943 which the British themselves engineered for profit.
     
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  9. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Atlee agreed with partition so long as Congress acquiesced to it and Britain was absolved of any guilt.

    [​IMG]


    British military become enthusiastic supporters of Pakistan as bases, airfields and ports will be invaluable to common wealth defence.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    From "Secret Affairs: Britain's Collusion with Radical Islam" , by Mark Curtis , page 31 - 32
     
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  10. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    British support for Pakistan on the Kashmir issue :-

    [​IMG]

    Giving Pakistan the international stature and historical depth (reminds me of "Islam ka Qila" / "Fort of Islam" / self appointed saviors of Islamic world rhetoric you often see on Paki TV) that it was didn't deserve. Prophetic words of Wavell about next struggle for world power being about control of oil reserves.

    [​IMG]


    From "Secret Affairs: Britain's Collusion with Radical Islam" , by Mark Curtis , page 32 - 33
     
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  11. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Michael O'Dwyer in 1933 says what is to stop a breakaway of Punjab, Sindh, Baluchistan and NWFP if Hindu majority tries to force its will on Muslim majority.

    [​IMG]


    Khan Abdul Wali Khan "Frontier Gandhi" accused Caroe of joining "an open conspiracy with the Muslim League to bathe the province in blood".

    [​IMG]

    From "The Invention of Pakistan How the British Raj Sundered " by Karl E. Meyer*

    http://www.newschool.edu/wpi/journal/articles/wpj03-1/meyer.html
     
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  12. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Pakistan's support to terrorism didn't deter Britain from supporting Pakistani military or its nuclear tests.

    [​IMG]

    From "Secret Affairs: Britain's Collusion with Radical Islam" , by Mark Curtis , page 203
     
  13. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Robyn Raphael was possibly Pakistan's greatest asset in USA.

    Reconciliation efforts in Kashmir
    At the State Department, Raphel prioritized resolution of the Kashmir problem to reduce tensions between India and Pakistan as one the central policy positions during her tenure. Her characterization of Kashmir as "disputed territory" – a first in the annals of U.S. diplomacy – made her popular in Pakistan, where her first husband Arnold Raphel had been ambassador[15] while also making her unpopular with the Indian establishment, which was loath to allow any interference of outside powers in what New Delhi considered a purely domestic matter.[16] Kashmir was raised on the agenda in Bhutto's first state visit to Washington in April 1995. It would remain a key topic of regional and bilateral discussions with both India and Pakistan throughout Clinton's two terms in office. Raphel's outspoken advocacy of a principled resolution in Kashmir would lead to pressure from India for Raphel to be removed from her post.[16] She left the State Department's South Asia section in late June 1997.[1]

    Engaging and cooperating with the Taliban

    A second major policy directive that Raphel advocated and developed during her tenure was engagement and cooperation with the Taliban.[15] Her positions raised equal measure of praise and scorn.[17] U.S. energy policies in the mid-1990s sought to develop alternative supply routes to counter increasing tensions in the Middle East. The Clinton administration supported oil and gas pipelines to transport Turkmenistan's rich energy reserves through Afghanistan to an exit at Pakistan's Indian Ocean seaport of Gwadar.[18]:165 Raphel openly spoke in favor of a proposed pipeline project by Unocal Corporation, an American oil company, on trips to Afghanistan and Pakistan in April and August 1996. Overt Clinton administration support for the Unocal project, and the subsequent taking of Kabul in September 1996 by the Taliban, raised concerns in Russia and Iran that U.S. intelligence assets were behind the rise of Taliban control in Afghanistan to advance U.S. energy interests in the region.[18]:165

    Raphel was instrumental in coordinating the State Department's establishment of diplomatic relations with the Taliban shortly after its takeover of Kabul.[19]:300 A senior Unocal executive commented that the pipeline project would be far easier to implement with the Taliban in control, in reference to the need for central control in Afghanistan to undertake a project of the size, complexity and cost the Texas-based oil giant was considering.[18]:166 Unocal's consortium also included Saudi Arabia's Delta Oil, Pakistan's Crescent Group and Gazprom of Russia. The project involved building an 890-kilometer gas pipeline that would carry 1.9 billion cubic feet of gas to Pakistan each day.[20]:95 Unocal held detailed discussions with Taliban representatives in Houston in December 1997, striking a deal[21] that would later collapse under the weight of rising U.S. and Afghan domestic political pressures against the Taliban's record on human rights, education and treatment of women.[18]:171–174

    In pursuing the Clinton administration's energy objectives through construction of the $4.5 billion Afghanistan Oil Pipeline, Raphel created ill will with Afghanistan's Northern Alliance, then under the command of Ahmad Shah Masood.[20]:95 Masood-controlled militias blocked the pipeline's northern access route due to the longstanding civil war with Taliban forces. After Masood was killed September 9, 2001 in a Taliban bombing, Raphel's critics accused her of collaborating with the Taliban to advance American commercial interests even as the group gave refuge to Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and other senior al-Qaeda leaders in the time leading up to the September 11 attacks.[19]

    Rapprochement with Pakistan
    Raphel entered her State Department assignment at a time when U.S.-Pakistan relations were strained. Sanctions imposed by George H. W. Bush over concerns about Pakistan's burgeoning nuclear program under the Pressler Amendmentbanned all military ties, supply of military hardware and jet fighters, and cut off political relations with Islamabad.[22] Bhutto sought rapprochement with the Clinton White House, and Raphel became a key player in orchestrating the renewal of ties, visiting the United States in April 1995.[23] Raphel, working with Pakistan's envoy to Washington at the time, Dr. Maleeha Lodhi, helped craft administration policy changes and build Congressional support that would ultimately become law through repeal of the Pressler Amendment.[24] The Brown Amendment was put into effect in November 1995.[25]:78 It restored U.S.-Pakistan relations and allowed Raphel to proceed apace in executing U.S. energy objectives in the region, now with new-found support from the Pakistani military for restoring military-to-military ties and its civilian government for insuring return of funds paid by Pakistan to the United States for undelivered F-16 fighterjets.[25]

    Impact in India
    Raphel's emphasis on providing Pakistan with military aid, siding with Pakistan on Kashmir issue and construction of oil line in Afghanistan for supply to Pakistan made her unpopular within the Indian establishment, despite being stationed in New Delhi in her early career.[26] Her characterization in her capacity as an official of the State Department official of Kashmir as disputed territory and her lobbying for separatists in Jammu and Kashmir when she was stationed there made her a target of criticism in India.[16] Her official position on the topic was overshadowed by off-the-record comments in which she questioned whether India's territorial integrity might not be changed by seeking self-determination rights for Kashmiris. Raphel also sided with Sikh separatists and persuaded Clinton to support them. She was seen in New Delhi as a catalyst for Washington's "trafficking with India's enemies".[26]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robin_Raphel


    If broke countries like Pakistan can buy up people like Raphel, imagine what Saudis can buy.
     
  14. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Hillary will be a bigger disaster than Raphel in regard to India.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    it seems to me that theses Brits and usa-ians, have foresight in some areas and little to none in some other critically important areas ....how they failed to envision, before the partitions that shariah and ummah would go for their throats, even given their experiences in the crusades ...makes one wonder

    they failed to see that shariah and ummah would use their right hands to cut the throats of anglo-saxons whether brit or usa-ian, while receiving weapons and financial support from the left hand
    is a stark reminder of how tunnelled their vision must have been and in some cases the hangover still continues

    they are digging their own graves if they continue this way. It had been only a few in the senate like Raorbacher who were able to see clearly, but thanfully there are more and more nowadays only recently who are ever so slowly being able to see the truth for what it is

    now they are learning the hard way , if they indeed are inclined to want to learn !

    It should be clear to indians that without the steering by Israeli political communities in the usa and europe, steering the anglo -saxons and europeans away from being pro-shariah to being more pro-israel , we would still , today , see a usa and europe which would be favouring the ummah over india by a larger margin than what we had seen in the recent past.

    Every time the west is drawn towards israel, india benefits and each time the west in the UN condemns israel in some biased attempt to craft an anti-israel resolution, india likely stands the possibility of losing out in some way, however remote. .

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  16. saty

    saty Tihar Jail Banned

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    The best thing ever happened to the Indian subcontinent from last 1000 yrs is PARTITION, so that we KICKED out 66% Mohammedans from India.There was a chance for Hindus after 47 to kick-out rest of the 33% but we wasted the golden chance.

    The worst thing ever happened to India after partition is NEHRU(&Gandhi clan) by his idiotic Socialist&Secular policies (joining in Russian camp) antagonized the UK&US.Rest is the history.
     
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  17. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    I think it should be amply clear by now to the Akhand Bharat enthusiasts that any misadventure in Pakistan will invite the full wrath of entire Anglosphere + China who have vested long term strategic interests (aside from natural ideological alliances) in Pakistan. It should also be clear why India was let go in 1971 with a slap on the wrist (British docs delineate W.Pak areas as strategically imp.) Or why there is an attitude of deference towards Pakistan and Indian Muslims by the crypto Abrahamistic Indian secular state (inherited trait from British). The West is not interested in any kind of "solutions' or fixing the terror menace that Pakistan is. They are happy with the status quo while pretending to be the peace mediators between us and Pakistan. It is also plausible that elected governments in India forced to toe a certain line w.r.t Pakistan. In this current arrangement, we will always be forced back on the table to talk with Pakistan because that's what west wants.
     
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  18. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    So why do Indian leaders continue on this idiotic path? Until Indian leaders realize that
    After fifty years diplomacy is not the solution and take a differ stance nothing will change. The only monkey wrench was when India went nuclear but west and China had a solution for that by making sure pak also went nuclear.


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  19. garg_bharat

    garg_bharat Senior Member Senior Member

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    Point 1: UK is on decline and will be completely insignificant in just a few years.

    Point 2: Pakistan cannot sustain in the long term due to deep societal problems.

    Point 3: India needs to gain economic and military strength before becoming more assertive. India lacks military strength which is far less compared to its size.

    Point 4: It will be better for India to stop looking at UK for anything. History is not a guide to the future.
     
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  20. LordOfTheUnderworlds

    LordOfTheUnderworlds Regular Member

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    Pakistan is not a typical modern state. It is a Jagirhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jagir awarded by colonial imperial power to the Indian Muslim Upper caste elites (mainly from north-central India and elite centres of princely states like Hyderabad Bhopal etc) and Landlords of North-west India.
    Jagirdar are free to lord over their awarded lands and slave populace but at times they need to provide their services to the master.

    Please note how even today Pakistani political leaders when they want to hold important meetings and negotiations, they prefer doing it in some hotel in London, sometimes they ask British ministsers to mediate in their fights. Sometimes entire political party is run by a 'leader' sitting in london.
    Most Pakistani
    elite families have second homes in london and even dual citizenship.FFew years back they even sent a British citizen to directly appoint as prime minister. And there are other things like how the 'spiritual leadership' i.e. cult leaders of sects nurtured during British Raj like ahmedis and bohras live in London.
     
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  21. LordOfTheUnderworlds

    LordOfTheUnderworlds Regular Member

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    Please also note how Indian elite class and section of media shows soft corner and even infatuation for Pakistani elite class. Their contempt is reserved for poor Pakistani slave class and brainwashed foot soldiers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2016

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