Breaking India & Being Different by Rajiv Malhotra - Discussion

balai_c

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^^ I hate to say it, but this picture is very relevant and germane to this thread. It is a very sensitive and politically touchy topic.Rajiv malhotra has done extensive analysis on this topic in his works. I am posting a rather longish video of one of his lectures. I would urge our members to watch it with an open mind.



 
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balai_c

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Re: Congress Politics : Communalism North East

The original topic explains the blueprint of a massive social engineering project run on Indians spanning several generations. The end result would be class of willing subservient natives (like our ancestors in the 19th century), destroying their society, culture, sense of history wiped out, nationalism and loyalty to country publicly ridiculed and humiliated. I may sound like a pathologically paranoid person fit to be in rehab, but what can I say, ONCE BITTEN TWICE SHY!! I have read enough history our recent and distant past , to infer that those who neglect to learn from history are doomed to repeat it! We must leave our future descendents a free and independent country, Free in the truest sense of the term.
 

ajtr

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Re: Congress Politics : Communalism North East

Why cut-and-paste the same images multiple times? Are you frustrated because Taliban has been unable to Purify your land of pures so far due to drone attacks from a Kafir country?
Read this to know more

 

amitkriit

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Re: Congress Politics : Communalism North East

Read this to know more

And what is there in it to read? Indians aren't so stupid that somebody from the Taliban-infested land will have to tell us who our enemies are.
 

balai_c

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Re: Congress Politics : Communalism North East

And what is there in it to read? Indians aren't so stupid that somebody from the Taliban-infested land will have to tell us who our enemies are.
Buddy,trust me , it is a book worth reading. Ajtr may not be worth our time, but don't let dislike for the poster cloud your mind. Its a highly acclaimed book, well respected in many places. It also has a staggering list of primary materials to back his claim. I have listened to this guy in youtube. He means business.
 

Ray

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Re: Congress Politics : Communalism North East

Balai,

The videos are very incisive and it is difficult not to agree with much what was presented.
 

balai_c

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Re: Congress Politics : Communalism North East

This may be OT, but I cannot help promoting this book by Rajivji, buy a hardcopy as soon as you can:

Being different




Amazon.com: Being Different (9789350291900): Rajiv Malhotra: Books

In Being Different: An Indian Challenge to Western Universalism, thinker and philosopher Rajiv Malhotra addresses the challenge of a direct and honest engagement on differences, by reversing the gaze, repositioning India from being the observed to the observer and looking at the West from the dharmic point of view. In doing so, he challenges many hitherto unexamined beliefs that both sides hold about themselves and each other. He highlights that while unique historical revelations are the basis for Western religions, dharma emphasizes self-realization in the body here and now. He also points out the integral unity that underpins dharma s metaphysics and contrasts this with Western thought and history as a synthetic unity.
This book describes the uniqueness of the dharmic traditions (for the uninitiated, dharmic means any spiritual tradition that adheres to the principles of Dharma as opposed to religion,meaning sanatan dharma, jain dharma, sikh dharma, etc). This book can answer many of the misconceptions wovwn around the dharmic traditions , its uniqueness and the reasons why it is worth studying and upholding.
 

balai_c

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Re: Congress Politics : Communalism North East

Galaxy I have completely read the book. Suffice to say the book is simply mind blowing, to say the least.My favorite chapters being order and chaos , and the samkrut untranslables. I will post a detailed book review soon.
 

Galaxy

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Re: Congress Politics : Communalism North East

Galaxy I have completely read the book. Suffice to say the book is simply mind blowing, to say the least.My favorite chapters being order and chaos , and the samkrut untranslables. I will post a detailed book review soon.
I like Rajiv Malhotra books. His books are very well research and fact based study on the intervention by many foreigner institutions backed by local to destroy us. All these groups often hate each other but are united because unity among us will thwart their nefarious designs. Those who haven't read will say it's conspiracy theory and things are exaggerated but once you complete the book, you will come to know many many things.
 
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Galaxy

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Re: Congress Politics : Communalism North East

The following is a summary of Rajiv Malhotra's latest book "Being Different"

I have written the summary – chapter wise and every chapter – concept wise, often by linking different portions of the book into concepts.

Introduction

The basic idea of this book is to look at the west (comprising of America and Europe) through the dharmic framework. This, in my view, is a challenging task in itself due to the lack of scholarship in this area. As the author himself acknowledges – "I am simply using the dharmic perspective to reverse the analytical gaze which normally goes from West to East and unconsciously privileges the former".

Chapter 1 – The audacity of difference

This chapter explains how India is different from the west and how this difference is often ignored and underestimated. The author notes "at the level of popular culture, India and the west may meet as equals, but at the deeper levels, where the core assumptions of a civilization reside, the playing field is tilted."

Globalization: The author notes that "globalization is often framed in terms and structures that emerged under western domination of the world in the past 500 years and these in turn are founded on the beliefs that emerged from the unique historical and religious experience of the people of European origin". This is an incisive analysis because west's "interaction" with the rest of the world began under adverse conditions in Europe. [1]

Along with these conditions, the religious conditioning of the western mind played a pivotal role in motivating the early maritime navigators [2]. During the colonial era, the west had to depend on "globalization" for its survival [3]. Even after the colonial era, the west continues to impose its own version of globalization on the world as is evident from the terms of trade with several countries [4]. Also, the author himself shows how "cultural appropriation gives a false impression of equalization" by illustrating that "modeling schools in India teach girls how to walk , talk and employ the body language of western women because the west has defined the standard of beauty for all women."

Also, the author contends that there are fundamental differences between the Judeo-Christian religions and the dharmic religions. However, these are never discussed openly due to "Difference anxiety" – defined here as the resistance to address differences between religions/cultures. This leads to the illusion of "sameness of all religions/cultures" which is used by the west in unforeseen ways.

i. On the religious front, it is used to infiltrate the other's faith and carry out mass religious conversions as "the Christian project is seen as a god sanctioned franchise to bring about religious homogeneity in the world".

ii. On the cultural front, it is used to make the other culture feel inferior. As a result, "an Indian is likely to feel anxious about eating with his hands in a western gathering than a westerner would feel in using silverware at a traditional Indian gathering".

The author explains how the Indian perception of globalization is different from the Eurocentric view – "being different need not mean being isolationist. Japan has preserved its distinct cultural norms and identity while remaining a major global economy".

Chapter 2 – Yoga : freedom from history

In this chapter, the author uses the term 'history-centrism' to refer to the fundamental assumption of historical revelation in the Abrahamic religions which is contrasted with the term 'embodied knowing' to refer to the practice of self- evolution in the dharmic traditions.

Historical Revelation: The author acutely observes that "the bedrock of Judeo-Christian traditions is the historical event when god intervenes from without (outside) in order for human beings to discern the truth. This leads to an obsession with compiling and studying the historical details of such interventions." As a result, "organized religion becomes a sort of history club which aims to arrive at the 'right' interpretation of prophetic teachings and instructions. Any resistance to this sheer unreasonableness has been known to bring draconian consequences." We know that the adverse reactions of deviating from religious books are detailed by several critics of Islam and Christianity. [5] and [6]. Also, the followers of Judeo-christian religions believe that their books contain the truth and there is no other way to obtain the truth than to read these scriptures. Hence, large scholarship centers including Alexandria in pre-christian Europe [7] and Taxila/Nalanda universities in pre-islamic india [8] have been destroyed ruthlessly.

One will rarely find a Christian who proclaims to be wise when he has not read the Bible. Similarly, one will rarely find a Muslim who declares that he is knowledgeable when he has not read the Quran.

However, according to the dharmic traditions – "Man is not born into original sin. He is endowed with the potential for achieving in this very life, the state of sat-chit-ananda – blissful knowledge of, and unity with god – anyone may explore and discover autonomously the meaning of our existence." The author quotes Sri Aurobindo "The veda, which I first began to read long afterwards in Pondicherry rather confirmed what experiences I already had than was any guide to my sadhana." Therefore, the author explains that "Even if all historical records were lost, historical memory erased, and every holy site destroyed, the ultimate truth could be recovered by ordinary humans through spiritual practices."

The author explains how obsession with historicity of religious gods is waste of time because their historical importance is insignificant compared to their spiritual importance. Sri Aurobindo is further quoted "if the Christ lives within our spiritual being, it would matter little whether or not a son of Mary physically lived and suffered and died in Judea."

3. History and Myth: The author observes that "myth is viewed in the west as the opposite of truth. (For the western mind) the term myth conjures up images of magical gods, spirits etc. which may be considered interesting, but they are not reliable accounts of the truth."

Even a letter to Christian congregations in the New Testament asserts that "we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our lord Jesus Christ, but we had been eyewitnesses of His majesty". Hence it is quite understandable why "westerners view history and myth to be mutually exclusive".

On the contrary, the dharmic perception of History – Itihasa- is not a mere sequence of chronological events, but rather it combines factual events and myths – which "use fiction to convey the truth" – and thereby have a larger symbolic importance than mere events. For example "Lord Ram and Krishna are embodiments of bhavas(attitudes) and their historical significance is superseded by the values they convey."

4. Time: Western and dharmic perspectives of time are also entirely different. While the dharmic sense of time is "cyclical", the author states that in the Judeo-Christian framework "time and space had a beginning and are linear, which affects all history writing. The literal events in the biblical religions include a cataclysmic and violent end of the world known as End Times. History this not only has a beginning but also a defined endpoint when Christ will judge all nations."

5. Inner Sciences: The dharmic perspective involves "adhyatma-vidya" or first person empiricism, while the western perspective lacks any techniques for the evolution of mind. Allan Wallace is quoted "the untrained mind which is prone to alternating agitation and dullness, is an unreliable and inadequate instrument for observing anything. To transform it into a suitable instrument for scientific exploration, the stability and vividness of the attention must be developed to a high degree." According to this parameter, many intellectuals who have influenced much of the scholarship and politics of the modern/medieval west may be considered immature when viewed in a dharmic society. For example, Lenin launched his communist party more out of a desire to avenge his personal "condition", than with a desire to bring about social change.[9]. Karl Marx fluctuated from affluence to abject poverty, so much so that only four out of his seven children survived to adulthood.[10] Mohammed was an epileptic and believed that his fits were divine interventions [11].

Chapter 3 – Integral Unity and Synthetic Unity

In this chapter, the author defines Integral unity "which means that ultimately only the whole exists; the parts that make up the whole have but a relative existence."

Whereas Synthetic unity "starts with parts that exist separately from one another, for example, in classical physics the cosmos is viewed as an assemblage of separate elementary particles. The problem then becomes how to make them cohere by outside forces (rather than seeking a coherence that is inherent)."

Later, the author uses the term bandhu to explain "the interlinking among the various faces of the reality, such as sounds, numbers, colours and ideas, and this interlinking is bandhu. All the arts and sciences are interrelated and may be seen as manifold ways in which human nature expresses itself." [12]

2. Freedom: The concept of "freedom" is beautifully expressed by the author in both the dharmic and the western framework. The reason for such difference in perceptions is also explained.

The dharmic perception of "freedom" is explained in terms of the following categories:-

i. Freedom to learn from within oneself.

ii. Freedom from conditioning and karma.

iii. Freedom from history and institutional authority.

iv. Freedom to choose a personal path (svadharma).

v. Freedom of choice of deity (ishta-devata).

The western perception of "freedom" is explained in the following manner:-

i. "Much of the western thinking presupposes an inherent tension between self and other at both the individual and collective levels. Such tension breeds a deep rooted anxiety about the way things are and the feeling that some external change is needed."

ii. "Hence, the western ego ferociously asserts itself with futile and dangerous attempts to manipulate the external world. The stronger the ego grows, the more anxious it becomes about what it does not possess, its very nature being to remain ever discontent."

iii. "The western idea of freedom has been defined by looking externally for a remedy for dukkha."

This explains why the west is always looking to "expand its empire" and why the erstwhile colonial powers had such pride in their "possessions". It also shows that "the west has been driven not by freedom but by the mandates of its self-image which require infinite expansion in a finite world. This is neither sustainable, nor scalable to include all humanity." [13]

The reasons for this widely different perception of "freedom" by westerners and Hindus may be attributed to the fundamental differences between Christianity and Hinduism. "Original sin gave Christians the notion of individuality that is stained by sin and hence lacking freedom. The solution, a free gift of grace, is deferred until the individual attains the beatific vision in heaven. Alternatively, in the second coming of Christ in the end times, those saved by Jesus will attain it collectively. In either case, freedom can never be fully present, so anxiety persists."

On the contrary, "real freedom in the Hindu and Buddhist sense is only attainable in the present moment as a result of inner work, but this notion was often lost sight in the west as it chased an illusory freedom lost in the past and projected into the future."

3. Influence of Christianity: It is important to understand the impact of Christianity on all spheres of life, not only during the dark ages, but also on later movements in the history of the west. In the same vein, the author describes five major 'synthetic' movements in the history of the west – starting from the emergence of Rome which established Christianity as a state religion and ending with the colonialist expansion – during which Christianity provided the moral justification.

While discussing the period of enlightenment, the author makes some profound observations on secularism which spawned the conflict between science and religion:-

i. "Descartes found himself caught in the crossfire between Galileo and the church. In 1633, he had to withdraw from publishing a book because it supported Copernicus's theory."

The dichotomy faced by Descartes is brilliantly expressed "Descartes the scientist believed in the machine model of the body operating under the laws of physics, but Descartes the devout catholic believed that the soul was free to obey or disobey god's commandments and face the consequences on the Day of Judgment."

Thus, a compromise was reached between these two irreconcilable views.

"He sought to resolve the conflict by formulating a mind/body dualism, according to which the body operates on material laws, whereas the soul and mind are entirely different substrates which operate as per the church doctrines."

"Thus the domains of science and the church were each defined in such a way that there was no overlap and hence no conflict."

However, this sham of secularism was so superficial that it becomes apparent to any keen observer.

"The enlightenment and subsequent modernist movements sought to throw off the dogma of Christianity in favour of a secular state, but here again the internal divisions "¦"¦ created instability and confusion. For the scientific revolution was not free of the old history centrism (inherent in Christianity) and the ego projection."

ii. The author reiterates the same point in chapter 6 by saying that "This conflict ridden science/religion substrate is illustrated by the curious mixture of secularism with biblical myth or superstition in the works of many famous western thinkers – both in science and in philosophy. This aspect of their work is often excluded in secular discussions."

"Francis bacon – considered the prophet of modern science sought a return to the state of Adam before the fall, a state of pure and sinless act with nature and knowledge of her powers"¦"¦ a progress back to Adam."

"Isaac newton was a fervent believer in the millennium and spent much of his time interpreting biblical philosophy."

"In Thomas hobbes' leviathan, the bible is cited 657 times and there is a similar trend in his other major political works."

The list of such examples – whose pretense of secularism was so shallow – is endless.

"Even Marxism, while attacking western religion, implicitly borrowed its underlying structure and grand narratives."

Bertrand Russell writes "The communist party – in the Marxist scheme – corresponds to the biblical church, the revolution to the second coming and the communist commonwealth to the millennium."

iii. The superficiality of this "schism" between science and religion becomes more apparent when deal with the period of colonialism.

"At the same time, both the sacred and the secular participated in the colonization, for although antithetical on the surface, both emerged from a religious and cosmological substrate in which strains of historical revelation and the forward march of science were mixed together."

Chapter 4 – Order and chaos

1.In this chapter, the author discusses how dharma is flexible with chaos whereas westerners feel uncomfortable and scared in a "disorderly" situation.

2.Decentralization: Sri Aurobindo is quoted "Unity we must create, but not necessarily uniformity." He adds that "nature can afford the luxury of infinite differentiation since there is always the secure basis that the underlying immutability of the eternal always remains unaffected."
The author cites a brilliant example "India's kumbha mela amply demonstrates that diversity can be self-organized and not anarchic, even on a very large scale. There is no central organizing body, no 'event manager' to send out invites, nobody in charge to promote it, no centralized registration system to get admitted. Yet it the world's largest gathering of people from all strata.".

3. The dialectic nature of western discourse: The author quotes directly from the bible "let there be light/ and there was light."(1:3) It further says "and god saw that light was good." (1:4).

Hence, "god establishes the binary categories of light and dark. Genesis then offers a slew of opposites: above and below; sea and dry land; sun and moon; good and evil, etc."

"The mutually exclusive categories of believer/heathen, true religion/false religion, deity/idol, history/myth etc.. are similar in that the first option in each pair is absolutely and exclusively valid, whereas the second option is absolutely dangerous. Not only is it negative, but it must be completely eradicated to restore order."

It is further explained that "The drastic either/or choices characteristic of western thinking mirror the exclusivism of the Abrahamic faiths, stretching back to the first of the Ten Commandments: 'Thou shall have no other gods before me'."

Roddam Narasimha is cited to articulate this point "The history of western science is shot through with the idea of theories and models and of fraud. Galileo, Newton, Mendel, Millikan, Ptolemy and many others were accused of fraud"¦. This can be traced to the faith in two-valued logic, namely the idea that answers have to be yes or no; models have to be true or false: there are no other options."

On the contrary, "Dharma deals pragmatically with behavior in particular circumstances rather than universal moral principles. Krishna deviates from the accepted norms when required to achieve the overall good of humanity. He suggests killing Drona, Karna and Duryodhana by means that would be unjust under normal circumstances."

The author later quotes Lannoy "Indian inclusiveness operates at a deeper level than the polarities of good and evil. In Indian ethics, good and evil are always relative, and a precise definition of intrinsically good or bad deeds is avoidable."

4. Finally, the author gives a brilliant analogy of the difference between India and the west in terms of "dharmic forest and judeo-christian desert".

"Desert people crave greenery so much that it is their sacred colour (as in Islam). The oasis – a small life sustaining forest in the midst – is their destination. All their notions of eternal paradise are forests. But the converse is never true: forest cultures do not crave deserts. Forest-dwelling civilizations did not turn into world conquerors looking for alternative pastures; they found contentment at home."

The author further elaborates "The forest functions well as a metaphor for context-based cultures, revealing why people living in dharmic cultures are more comfortable with cognitive complexity. Of course, those who love the desert believe it can inspire awe and worship. Still, for many, it is easy to see the desert as a place of extremes – deep cold or burning heat, hunger or food, water or sand."

Chapter 5 – Non-translatable Sanskrit versus digestion

In this chapter, the author primarily asserts that "holding on to Sanskrit terms and thereby preserving the complete range of their meanings becomes a way of resisting colonization."

Sanskrit: He goes on to explain the discovery of Sanskrit from "root sounds and vibrations" and how this beautiful language is highly logical and connected with spiritual evolution of man. No wonder, it is touted as the "language of artificial intelligence by NASA scientists." [14]

Mistranslation of Sanskrit: He then goes on to list several non- translatable categories like vedas, which should not be confused with their common English translations, because then the whole meaning gets changed.
One very important category, that is commonly mistranslated, is "dharma ≠ religion or law".

i. "The word 'dharma' has multiple meanings depending on the context in which it is used – including, but not limited to – conduct, duty, right, justice, virtue, morality, religion, religious merit, good work according to a rule etc.."

ii. "Dharma has no equivalent in the western lexicon."

iii. "Dharma provides the principles for the harmonious fulfillment of all aspects of life – namely, the acquisition of wealth and power (artha), fulfillment of desires (kama) and liberation (moksha)."

iv. "Religion is only a subset of dharma's range of meanings. Religion applies only to human beings and not to the entire cosmos; there is no religion of electrons, monkeys, plants and galaxies, whereas all of them have their dharma."

v. In a later chapter, the author mentions the adverse consequences of this mistranslation "The western idea of no religion in the public square has been interpreted by many Indians as no dharma in the public square. Secularized Indians have failed to appreciate that a society lacking dharma would be dangerously ambivalent towards ethical conduct.

The result of importing secularism into a dharmic society has thus been disastrous in many ways." [15]. A very interesting table is given in page 301 – it is quite hilarious when read from the dharmic perspective.

Chapter 6 – Contesting western universalism

1.In this chapter, the author states "the profound assumption" of the west that "the shape and direction of world history are leading to a single western goal – be it salvation or scientific secular progress."

2.Cultural Appropriation: Germany is cited as a case study in "western digestion and synthesis".
"The French – as the inheritors of the renaissance – the center of European high culture , leaving the Germans without a similar narrative. In fact, textbooks across Europe at this time depicted Germans as the barbarians who had destroyed first the Roman Empire and then the high culture of Europe in France."

"India became a major source from which Germans began to construct their own identity." But "this romantic attraction for India and for the Sanskrit classical era in particular, was always self-serving."

For example, "Schlegel tried to separate Indian religion from Sanskrit texts in order to appropriate selectively the non-religious aspects of Sanskrit civilization into the German Christian identity. The romance for India gradually diminished, and Schlegel and other Germans began to see India as a primitive society with many evils."

3. Friedrich Hegel: Hegel's myth of the west is cited as an example of western hegemony over world history.

"Hegel's world spirit is a synthetic unity encompassing all humanity. It privileges the west and those who do not fit into his scheme are not a part of history."

"Hegel dismisses Native Americans as 'obviously unintelligent' and speaks of them as 'unenlightened children' distinguished only by 'inferiority in all respects'. He also proclaims that India 'has no history'"

4. Finally, the author states that common responses to the challenge of western universalism – including secularism, postcolonial deconstruction and difference anxiety – have themselves been inadequate so far, and they have "been re-exported back to India in problematic forms."

Conclusion : Purva paksha and the way forward

1.In this final chapter, the author states that we must revive the old tradition of 'purva paksha' in order to discern the enemy and save our civilization.
2.Five "rules of engagement for effective purva pakshaare explained :-

i. Level playing field where every agreement is mutually decided.

ii. The only intention must be to pursue the truth.

iii. No 'win-win' type of outcome should be forced upon.

iv. A preliminary mastery of the 'ego' through the serious practice of adhyatma vidya.

v. Thorough understanding of the opponent's traditions and theology.

3. "Anticipated western responses" are listed, in which the author eloquently sums up the anticipated reactions from the west, if such a 'purva paksha' were to be held.

i. Fundamentalist push-back: "significant numbers from these western religions will reject the premise and value of purva paksha", because "for such believers, respectful engagement with dharma is tantamount to dealing with the devil."

ii. Open minded within the limits of history-centrism: "while some of them would be interested in it, a good many others would be unwilling to compromise the history-centrism and exclusivism which they hold to be central to their own religion."

iii.

: "a much smaller group of practitioners would be willing to call into question the core beliefs of the west.

"A subset would want to explore whether western notions at risk could be reformulated in the light of dharma.

"The further subset willing to travel the farthest consists of those who wish to advocate a wholesale translation of the essential spirituality of Judaism/Christianity into the dharmic paradigm. These seekers are willing to accept Jesus on par with other Hindu avatars." However, since these seekers "have not addressed their own cultural assumptions, there may be a tendency to settle for an abstract 'perennial philosophy' or else make a 'U-Turn' back to their former beliefs."

iv. "Rare is the western seeker who is able to follow through on his or her quest without such a volte-face. Rarer still is the one who is able to forge a completely new and individual path of spiritual achievement."

4. The author concludes by citing Gandhi as an example of someone who saw the inter civilisational encounter as the "kurukshetra where he performed his sva-dharma.

Observations of an Unconditioned Mind | My World View
 

Mad Indian

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Re: Congress Politics : Communalism North East

"The dharmic perception of "freedom" is explained in terms of the following categories:-

i. Freedom to learn from within oneself.

ii. Freedom from conditioning and karma.

iii. Freedom from history and institutional authority.

iv. Freedom to choose a personal path (svadharma).

v. Freedom of choice of deity (ishta-devata)."
Wow I believe in every single point here. Does it make me a Dharmic man by faith?:hmm:

Anywho. So whats written here is true? Congress is a communal party which will sell this nation to the highest bidder? So why do people accuse BJP of communal politics and Praise CONgrAss as a secular party :noidea:.

If only Indians have half of the brains they "shout" they have :tsk:

Anyway, I dont think any society which is incapable of introspection to find its own faults can achieve any actual progress. In that way, if we are going to look at our past and present with suspicion, without losing pride and nationalism, I think its great for our nation.
 
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Ray

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Re: Congress Politics : Communalism North East

What is the political affiliation of Mr Malhautra?
 

Mad Indian

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Re: Congress Politics : Communalism North East

A political party which ties up with Muslim League and Christian Parties in elections cannot be called secular by any standard. But it Congress is in power it is our own fault.
"Congress is a secular party" is as true as "Nazis being torch bearers of the world peace" :truestory:

Anyway, As I said, we take so much pride regarding our past and present. Our culture. Our Nation. We claim we are very progressive society. We claim we were the greatest nation on earth , before the European arrival in the 17th century. We claim we had the philosophical progress of the present west when the west was reeling under dark ages. And yet, look at us and our leaders. look at who we vote to power.

Indians are loud mouthed, are we not? If only we had half the brains of what we claim to have, I dont think we will have so many problems in our country :(
 
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Mad Indian

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Re: Congress Politics : Communalism North East

What is the political affiliation of Mr Malhautra?
Whats the point? You are questioning the political affiliation rather than what he is saying or whether what he says makes sense?
 

balai_c

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Re: Congress Politics : Communalism North East

What is the political affiliation of Mr Malhautra?
Rajiv Malhotra defines himself as a " non-Hindutwavadi Hindu" , I believe most of you will like that. So, he avoids anyone affiliated with hindutwavad. Having said that, he also is not a fan of secular parties either. He considers Indian version of secularism to be against the eternal ethos of Dharma- the spirit of Indian civilization. In Dharma, there were no separation of church and state, because an institution like church and associated organised religious bureaucracy (like we see in catholic church). Phrases and dogmas like " Extra Ecclasiam Nulla Salus" meaning "there is no salvation outside church" , does not exist in Dharma. I believe this the phrase that can succinctly describe the twist we have in north-east. Church is being as a media for society control, much the same way it has used in pre-renaissence Europe, to mange the "flock". It is a tool of trans national religious allegiance, as we see in the non Arab Muslim "Ummah" countries like Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Sudan, etc.

Coming back to the phrase we can see:

Extra_Ecclesiam_nulla_salus


The Latin phrase extra Ecclesiam nulla salus[1][2][3] means: "outside the church there is no salvation".[1][2] The most recent Catholic Catechism interpreted this to mean that "all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body."[4]

This expression comes from the writings of Saint Cyprian of Carthage, a bishop of the 3rd century. The axiom is often used as short-hand for the doctrine, upheld by both the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church, that the Church is necessary for salvation ("one true faith"). The theological basis for this doctrine is founded on the beliefs that (1) Jesus Christ personally established the one Church; and (2) the Church serves as the means by which the graces won by Christ are communicated to believers.

An Eastern Orthodox bishop has expressed this doctrine as follows:[3]

Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus. All the categorical strength and point of this aphorism lies in its tautology. Outside the Church there is no salvation, because salvation is the Church" (G. Florovsky, "Sobornost: the Catholicity of the Church", in The Church of God, p. 53). Does it therefore follow that anyone who is not visibly within the Church is necessarily damned? Of course not; still less does it follow that everyone who is visibly within the Church is necessarily saved. As Augustine wisely remarked: "How many sheep there are without, how many wolves within!" (Homilies on John, 45, 12) While there is no division between a "visible" and an "invisible Church", yet there may be members of the Church who are not visibly such, but whose membership is known to God alone. If anyone is saved, he must in some sense be a member of the Church; in what sense, we cannot always say.
—Kallistos Ware

The Roman Catholic Church also teaches that the doctrine does not mean that everyone who is not visibly within the Church is necessarily damned (see below).

Some of the most pertinent Roman Catholic expressions of this doctrine are: the profession of faith of Pope Innocent III (1208), the profession of faith of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), the bull Unam sanctam of Pope Boniface VIII (1302), and the profession of faith of the Council of Florence (1442). The axiom "No salvation outside the Church" has been frequently repeated over the centuries in different terms by the ordinary magisterium.


The original saying by Saint Cyprian of Carthage (3rd century AD) is found his Letter LXXII, Ad Jubajanum de haereticis baptizandis, and in Latin reads: "Salus extra ecclesiam non est".[5]

Fourth Lateran Council (1215): "There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved."

Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unam sanctam (1302): "We are compelled in virtue of our faith to believe and maintain that there is only one holy Catholic Church, and that one is apostolic. This we firmly believe and profess without qualification. Outside this Church there is no salvation and no remission of sins, the Spouse in the Canticle proclaiming: 'One is my dove, my perfect one. One is she of her mother, the chosen of her that bore her' (Canticle of Canticles 6:8); which represents the one mystical body whose head is Christ, of Christ indeed, as God. And in this, 'one Lord, one faith, one baptism' (Ephesians 4:5). Certainly Noah had one ark at the time of the flood, prefiguring one Church which perfect to one cubit having one ruler and guide, namely Noah, outside of which we read all living things were destroyed"¦ We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff."

Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino (1441): "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the "eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."

Pope Boniface I, Epistle 14.1: "It is clear that this Roman Church is to all churches throughout the world as the head is to the members, and that whoever separates himself from it becomes an exile from the Christian religion, since he ceases to belong to its fellowship."

Pope Pelagius II (578-590): "Consider the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the Church cannot have the Lord"¦ Although given over to flames and fires, they burn, or, thrown to wild beasts, they lay down their lives, there will not be (for them) that crown of faith but the punishment of faithlessness"¦ Such a one can be slain, he cannot be crowned"¦ [If] slain outside the Church, he cannot attain the rewards of the Church" (Denzinger, 469).

Saint Gregory the Great (590-604), Moralia: "Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved."

Pope Sylvester II, Profession of Faith, June AD 991: "I believe that in Baptism all sins are forgiven, that one which was committed originally as much as those which are voluntarily committed, and I profess that outside the Catholic Church no one is saved."

Pope Innocent III (1198–1216), Profession of Faith prescribed for the Waldensians: "With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved" (Denzinger 792).

Pope Clement VI, Letter Super Quibusdam (to Consolator the Catholicos of Armenia), September 20, 1351: "In the second place, we ask whether you and the Armenians obedient to you believe that no man of the wayfarers outside of the faith of this Church, and outside the obedience of the Pope of Rome, can finally be saved"¦ In the ninth place, if you have believed and do believe that all who have raised themselves against the faith of the Roman Church and have died in final impenitence have been damned and have descended to the eternal punishments of hell."

Pope Leo XII (1823–1829), Encyclical Ubi Primum: "It is impossible for the most true God, who is Truth Itself, the best, the wisest Provider, and rewarder of good men, to approve all sects who profess false teachings which are often inconsistent with one another and contradictory, and to confer eternal rewards on their members. For we have a surer word of the prophet, and in writing to you We speak wisdom among the perfect; not the wisdom of this world but the wisdom of God in a mystery. By it we are taught, and by divine faith we hold, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and that no other name under heaven is given to men except the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth in which we must be saved. This is why we profess that there is no salvation outside the Church"¦ For the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. With reference to those words Augustine says: 'If any man be outside the Church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for Father since he has not the Church for mother.'
 

balai_c

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Re: Congress Politics : Communalism North East

^^ Quite an accurate observation.
 

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